Clinton Hill Chill tshirts
Comments
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queencallipygos wrote: I'm just amused that a good part of the argument seemed to be about how people here don't try to become part of the neighborhood, or inform themselves about the neighborhood, but all the questions from people about "okay, so then when IS Clinton Hill Day anyway" have been completely ignored.
First off, obviously it's a summer event so how would I know NOW when CH day will be next year?!! Secondly my point was that you might find out what goes on in the neighborhood(that doesn't get posted on the net) by interacting w/ ppl in the community. -
bknest wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]I'm just amused that a good part of the argument seemed to be about how people here don't try to become part of the neighborhood, or inform themselves about the neighborhood, but all the questions from people about "okay, so then when IS Clinton Hill Day anyway" have been completely ignored.
First off, obviously it's a summer event so how would I know NOW when CH day will be next year?!! Secondly my point was that you might find out what goes on in the neighborhood(that doesn't get posted on the net) by interacting w/ ppl in the community.
Do you not consider people asking you about it in here to be "interacting with people in the community"? Or do you not consider online interaction to be "real"?
I'm not trying to be flip, I'm just wondering if this is where the disconnect is. -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos]I'm just amused that a good part of the argument seemed to be about how people here don't try to become part of the neighborhood, or inform themselves about the neighborhood, but all the questions from people about "okay, so then when IS Clinton Hill Day anyway" have been completely ignored.
First off, obviously it's a summer event so how would I know NOW when CH day will be next year?!! Secondly my point was that you might find out what goes on in the neighborhood(that doesn't get posted on the net) by interacting w/ ppl in the community.
Do you not consider people asking you about it in here to be "interacting with people in the community"? Or do you not consider online interaction to be "real"?
I'm not trying to be flip, I'm just wondering if this is where the disconnect is.
Well most of the people I interact w/ in the community don't frequent these boards and had it not been for me posting the ppl that inquired wouldnt know about the event. So I'm referring to person to person interaction and conversing( you know how ppl did in the old days lol). Inquiring on a message board to a faceless person while remaining anonymous behind a computer keyboard doesnt exactly equate to interacting w/ the community to me... -
bknest wrote: Well most of the people I interact w/ in the community don't frequent these boards and had it not been for me posting the ppl that inquired wouldnt know about the event. So I'm referring to person to person interaction and conversing( you know how ppl did in the old days lol). Inquiring on a message board to a faceless person while remaining anonymous behind a computer keyboard doesnt exactly equate to interacting w/ the community to me...
Ahhh, this could be where the whole misunderstanding is, then. You do have a fair point, but I think in the opinions of many, online interaction is interaction. It's not the same kind of interaction, you're right, and there are place where it falls short of face-to-face interaction, but I wouldn't say that it doesn't count as interaction. Because -- we're both residents of the same community, right? And we're engaged in a conversation right now, right? Well, that sounds like "interaction with people in my community" to me.
Also, consider -- there are people who didn't even know about "Clinton Hill Day" OR these t-shirts until they got mentioned in here. And a couple of THOSE people have been asking "so, what is this Clinton Hill Day you're all talking about?" and no one is answering their questions. Unless someone tells them more about it (you don't know the date now, I understand, but do you at least know how people could find out that date later on?), then they're out of luck, unless you propose they ask random strangers on the street, who also might not know themselves.
In short -- you're someone on this board who is clearly a member of the community, and who clearly knows more about Clinton Hill Day than others in here. Consider: some posters have clearly taken an interest in this event, and even though you may prefer face-to-face interaction, well, other people are in here, and they're asking you for details -- they're trying to interact with another member of the community, as far as they're concerned. But all they know is that this other member of the community is putting them off. Might it not be best to answer their questions, even though you consider this a less-than-ideal form of interaction? That way they can then actually show up at the next Clinton Hill day and interact in person. -
Ahhh, this could be where the whole misunderstanding is, then. You do have a fair point, but I think in the opinions of many, online interaction is interaction.
Is online sex then real sex? -
B Rad wrote:
It's not exactly the same as real sex, but it can be equally as fun if done right...Ahhh, this could be where the whole misunderstanding is, then. You do have a fair point, but I think in the opinions of many, online interaction is interaction.
Is online sex then real sex?
(If you still don't believe, me, ask anyone whether they'd be cool with their significant other having cybersex with a stranger.) -
(If you still don't believe, me, ask anyone whether they'd be cool with their significant other having cybersex with a stranger.)
Could not possibly be grounds for divorce. -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=bknest]Well most of the people I interact w/ in the community don't frequent these boards and had it not been for me posting the ppl that inquired wouldnt know about the event. So I'm referring to person to person interaction and conversing( you know how ppl did in the old days lol). Inquiring on a message board to a faceless person while remaining anonymous behind a computer keyboard doesnt exactly equate to interacting w/ the community to me...
Ahhh, this could be where the whole misunderstanding is, then. You do have a fair point, but I think in the opinions of many, online interaction is interaction. It's not the same kind of interaction, you're right, and there are place where it falls short of face-to-face interaction, but I wouldn't say that it doesn't count as interaction. Because -- we're both residents of the same community, right? And we're engaged in a conversation right now, right? Well, that sounds like "interaction with people in my community" to me.
Also, consider -- there are people who didn't even know about "Clinton Hill Day" OR these t-shirts until they got mentioned in here. And a couple of THOSE people have been asking "so, what is this Clinton Hill Day you're all talking about?" and no one is answering their questions. Unless someone tells them more about it (you don't know the date now, I understand, but do you at least know how people could find out that date later on?), then they're out of luck, unless you propose they ask random strangers on the street, who also might not know themselves.
In short -- you're someone on this board who is clearly a member of the community, and who clearly knows more about Clinton Hill Day than others in here. Consider: some posters have clearly taken an interest in this event, and even though you may prefer face-to-face interaction, well, other people are in here, and they're asking you for details -- they're trying to interact with another member of the community, as far as they're concerned. But all they know is that this other member of the community is putting them off. Might it not be best to answer their questions, even though you consider this a less-than-ideal form of interaction? That way they can then actually show up at the next Clinton Hill day and interact in person.
SOrry I just don't feel like having an online discussion with an anonymous person who happens to live in the neighborhood about the neighborhood is "interacting w/ the community". As far as details about what CH day is, a poster on the previous page explained succinctly what it is. I'm not even sure if most would be interested but I was letting the OP know that by interacting w/ ppl in the community you might find out things that go on w/ in the nabe that you otherwise wouldn't know about and possibly meet a new neighbor at the same time...not an anonymous user name. This is what gives a nabe a communal feel...real person interaction. -
bknest wrote: SOrry I just don't feel like having an online discussion with an anonymous person who happens to live in the neighborhood about the neighborhood is "interacting w/ the community". As far as details about what CH day is, a poster on the previous page explained succinctly what it is. I'm not even sure if most would be interested but I was letting the OP know that by interacting w/ ppl in the community you might find out things that go on w/ in the nabe that you otherwise wouldn't know about and possibly meet a new neighbor at the same time...not an anonymous user name. This is what gives a nabe a communal feel...real person interaction.
You're right, but there could be any number of reasons why that wasn't feasible for that particular instance:
* the person wearing the shirt could have been on the phone.
* the person wearing the shirt could have been in a cab driving past the other person.
* the person who saw the shirt could have been running late for an appointment.
* the person who saw the shirt could have been on a bus, and saw the person wearing the shirt outside on the sidewalk.
* the person wondering about the shirt could have just seen the shirt by itself, spinning around with someone else's laundry at the laundromat
* the person wondering about the shirt could have been painfully agoraphobic.
* the person wearing the shirt could have been getting onto a bus.
* the person wearing the shirt could have been in a dentists' chair getting a root canal...
I mean, I hear you, but I just personally see more sense in cutting people some slack or assuming "well, maybe they were shy, or there was some other reason" and just answering their question, as opposed to lecturing them about how They Should Interact In Person, and thus running the risk of pissing them off and making them say, "well, then the hell with Clinton Hill Day, if people are going to be like that about it." (I doubt you intended for that to happen, but that came very close TO happening.)
Actually, that is one advantage of online communication -- some people are painfully shy around strangers, and doing things online is sometimes the only way they can interact.
Interacting in person is part of building a community -- but so is empathy with and tolerance for others, yes? -
I agree that online interaction counts. When I first moved here a few years ago, the first place I looked for info about the community was on the internet, maybe because it's a familiar medium to me. However, possibly the point that some are trying to make is that we shouldn't hide behind it, or use it as an excuse. It's alot easier and more comfortable to inquire about a shirt online than to stop someone on the street and strike up conversation. I think, ideally, this board has the potential to be a great resource for all residents, new and old, but we shouldn't use it as a crutch or excuse for getting to know our 'hood. If I have a question about the area that I want various perspectives on and don't have the time to walk outside and poll 10 random neighbors or people that I know, I'll post it here.
So, in closing, let's continue to interact, discuss, argue and post interesting resources about our areas on this board, but don't forget that true community bonding happens face to face. -
B Rad wrote: (If you still don't believe, me, ask anyone whether they'd be cool with their significant other having cybersex with a stranger.)
Well, it is grounds for arresting someone of sexual molestation of a minor, so while I'm not a lawyer, I could see how someone could at least make a case that it's evidence of adulterous intent...
Could not possibly be grounds for divorce.
And I'm sure you know that even if it's not a legal grounds for divorce, it'd certainly be cause for some unmarried couples to break up, methinks.
...Ah, just found this quote from an article in the WALL STREET JOURNAL from this past August 10:
"Family-law experts and marital counselors say they're seeing a growing number of marriages dissolve over virtual infidelity. Cyber affairs don't legally count as adultery unless they cross over into the real world, but they may be cited as grounds for divorce and could be a factor in determining alimony and child custody in some states, according to several legal experts, including Jeff Atkinson, professor at the DePaul University College of Law and author of the American Bar Association's "Guide to Marriage, Divorce and Families." -
SOrry I just don't feel like having an online discussion with an anonymous person who happens to live in the neighborhood about the neighborhood is "interacting w/ the community". As far as details about what CH day is, a poster on the previous page explained succinctly what it is. I'm not even sure if most would be interested but I was letting the OP know that by interacting w/ ppl in the community you might find out things that go on w/ in the nabe that you otherwise wouldn't know about and possibly meet a new neighbor at the same time...not an anonymous user name. This is what gives a nabe a communal feel...real person interaction.
i haven't been able to completely agree with either side on this debate, which i have followed with interest, but i have to grudgingly agree with bknest here. as much as online interaction is much more convenient for me (i work in manhattan and while i have a lot of internet time throughout the day, when i get home, i'm largely exhausted and most of the time i'd rather be safe and snug in my house than have to further exert myself to meet new people), it's just no substitute for the real thing. it really is that personal, face-to-face interaction that makes a community a community.
it is for that reason, however, i truly agree with the point being made that you are doing your purported interest no favors by continuing to withhold information about Clinton Hill day because you don't like that people don't agree with you about the above point. you made your point that if people interacted with the contingency of their community that doesn't communicate in the way that they find most comfortable, i.e. talking to people face to face instead of on message boards, etc., they would already KNOW about CH day -- and it was a valid point. You start to look bullheaded, however, if you continue in this vein, choosing to chastise and criticize those who think/act/communicate differently than you rather than try to find common ground and get the word out.
it seems to me that for the very reason that day-to-day interpersonal interaction is being whittled away by the practical realities of modern culture that an effort should be made by those protesting to want to preserve that community spirit to engage as many members of the community in such all-day weekend events when people are most at their ease and leisure to be able to participate.
but this is all with the understanding that by "community" and "neighborhood" you mean a group bounded geographically. if you mean those people who live around you that you like, you agree with and who communicate exactly like you at all times, then fine, but call it what it is. it's a neighborhood, not the freemasons. -
detrop wrote:
Wow...where do I start?! You have to grudgingly agree?! Why? lol I did not withhold any information about CH day. The question thats being asked is when and I answered that question in my post to queenc. As far as what it entails that was covered in a post by someone else on the previous page. I didn't chastise or criticize anyone. And with all due respect, like I said in previous posts ALL are WELCOME to come to CH day but it's not a necessity, the day will go on regardless like it has for almost ten years. So I really don't know what you mean "doing my purported interest any favors". My "interest" doesn't need any favors, the only reason CH day was bought up was to let lesterhead know, that sometimes you can find out about what's going on in the nabe by simply conversing w/ your neighbors.SOrry I just don't feel like having an online discussion with an anonymous person who happens to live in the neighborhood about the neighborhood is "interacting w/ the community". As far as details about what CH day is, a poster on the previous page explained succinctly what it is. I'm not even sure if most would be interested but I was letting the OP know that by interacting w/ ppl in the community you might find out things that go on w/ in the nabe that you otherwise wouldn't know about and possibly meet a new neighbor at the same time...not an anonymous user name. This is what gives a nabe a communal feel...real person interaction.
i haven't been able to completely agree with either side on this debate, which i have followed with interest, but i have to grudgingly agree with bknest here. as much as online interaction is much more convenient for me (i work in manhattan and while i have a lot of internet time throughout the day, when i get home, i'm largely exhausted and most of the time i'd rather be safe and snug in my house than have to further exert myself to meet new people), it's just no substitute for the real thing. it really is that personal, face-to-face interaction that makes a community a community.
it is for that reason, however, i truly agree with the point being made that you are doing your purported interest no favors by continuing to withhold information about Clinton Hill day because you don't like that people don't agree with you about the above point. you made your point that if people interacted with the contingency of their community that doesn't communicate in the way that they find most comfortable, i.e. talking to people face to face instead of on message boards, etc., they would already KNOW about CH day -- and it was a valid point. You start to look bullheaded, however, if you continue in this vein, choosing to chastise and criticize those who think/act/communicate differently than you rather than try to find common ground and get the word out.
it seems to me that for the very reason that day-to-day interpersonal interaction is being whittled away by the practical realities of modern culture that an effort should be made by those protesting to want to preserve that community spirit to engage as many members of the community in such all-day weekend events when people are most at their ease and leisure to be able to participate.
but this is all with the understanding that by "community" and "neighborhood" you mean a group bounded geographically. if you mean those people who live around you that you like, you agree with and who communicate exactly like you at all times, then fine, but call it what it is. it's a neighborhood, not the freemasons. -
detrop wrote: i haven't been able to completely agree with either side on this debate, which i have followed with interest, but i have to grudgingly agree with bknest here. as much as online interaction is much more convenient for me (i work in manhattan and while i have a lot of internet time throughout the day, when i get home, i'm largely exhausted and most of the time i'd rather be safe and snug in my house than have to further exert myself to meet new people), it's just no substitute for the real thing. it really is that personal, face-to-face interaction that makes a community a community.
I don't think anyone is arguing with that point itself, or suggesting that online interaction should REPLACE face-to-face, or is EXACTLY EQUAL to in ever way. I would say that it is equally VALID, though, in that it's a way of conveying information, and it is a way for a person to aquire a "personality" and become a member of a "group".
The best analogy I can come up with is that online interaction is kind of like Boca burgers -- they sure ain't beef, but they're still tasty and edible enough to make for a passable enough substitute for those times when beef just isn't going to work.
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Bknest, you clearly have some serious resentment issues with non-black newcomers and a real passive agressive way of expressing your concern about displacement of old time black renters. Your resentment is clear through all your posts, including often putting "nabe" in quotes to highlight the fact that people were not saying "hood" and therefore must be some yuppie white person. Thank god the rest of the people in neighborhood, old and new, that I know don't behave like you do. Sometimes I think this board attracts people who want to rant and stir up arguments.
Displacement of renters in Clinton Hill is a real issue, especially for blacks that have lived here for the past 50 years but never bought and can't afford rising rents, or whose buildings (usually owned by blacks) are being sold. However, your unfriendly, presumptuous attitude does not help anything and reveals nothing but your insular, intolerant attitude. -
Anonymous wrote: Sometimes I think this board attracts people who want to rant and stir up arguments.
And other times, ya _know_ it... -
Anonymous wrote: Bknest, you clearly have some serious resentment issues with non-black newcomers and a real passive agressive way of expressing your concern about displacement of old time black renters. Your resentment is clear through all your posts, including often putting "nabe" in quotes to highlight the fact that people were not saying "hood" and therefore must be some yuppie white person. Thank god the rest of the people in neighborhood, old and new, that I know don't behave like you do. Sometimes I think this board attracts people who want to rant and stir up arguments.
Nowhere in this thread did I say anything derogatory about race...And behave like I do?! You can guage my behavoral patterns through posts on a message board?! But you're calling me presumptuous?! Hi pot my name is kettle lol!! And believe me as a black person you don't have to tell me about real issues that blacks face, trust me on that one. How am I intolerant when I've said NUMEROUS times that ALL are welcome?! Also if you read through this thread you will see others share my same sentiment so nothing I said was some dillusional rant or racial tirade. Even some that disagreed w/ me on some points had to "grudgingly" agree on others. You have no right to just write me off as some bigot who doesn't know what he's talking about because that is far from the truth. I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
Displacement of renters in Clinton Hill is a real issue, especially for blacks that have lived here for the past 50 years but never bought and can't afford rising rents, or whose buildings (usually owned by blacks) are being sold. However, your unfriendly, presumptuous attitude does not help anything and reveals nothing but your insular, intolerant attitude. -
bknest wrote: I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
:shock:
Please don't tell me you actually just wrote that with a straight face. -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=bknest] I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
:shock:
Please don't tell me you actually just wrote that with a straight face.
Sarcasm -
bknest wrote: [quote=queencallipygos][quote=bknest] I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
:shock:
Please don't tell me you actually just wrote that with a straight face.
Sarcasm
...So you're being sarcastic when you claim to not be a bigot? I'm getting confused. -
hate in = hate out
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queencallipygos wrote: [quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=bknest] I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
:shock:
Please don't tell me you actually just wrote that with a straight face.
Sarcasm
...So you're being sarcastic when you claim to not be a bigot? I'm getting confused.
No c'mon now...forget it...it's moot. -
Anonymous wrote: hate in = hate out
Please refer me to these hate filled posts. -
bknest wrote: [quote=queencallipygos][quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=bknest] I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
:shock:
Please don't tell me you actually just wrote that with a straight face.
Sarcasm
...So you're being sarcastic when you claim to not be a bigot? I'm getting confused.
No c'mon now...forget it...it's moot.
No, now, wait a minute -- over in another thread I'm making a case on your behalf that someone blithely using the word "ghetto" was being a little insensitive to you; but in here I find you bandying this thing around and then just laughing it off as "sarcasm"?
It has to work both ways, friend. You'd appreciate people being sensitive to you, but they'd also appreciate you being sensitive to them. Sensitivity certainly isn't "moot". -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=bknest] I mean how can I be a bigot when some of my closest friends are white... :roll:
:shock:
Please don't tell me you actually just wrote that with a straight face.
Sarcasm
...So you're being sarcastic when you claim to not be a bigot? I'm getting confused.
No c'mon now...forget it...it's moot.
No, now, wait a minute -- over in another thread I'm making a case on your behalf that someone blithely using the word "ghetto" was being a little insensitive to you; but in here I find you bandying this thing around and then just laughing it off as "sarcasm"?
It has to work both ways, friend. You'd appreciate people being sensitive to you, but they'd also appreciate you being sensitive to them. Sensitivity certainly isn't "moot".
Please explain to me how it was insensitive and to who. Especially when there's no reason to deduce that I'm actually a bigot. The statement whether in gest or not was in no way bigoted or insensitive to anyone. -
No, now, wait a minute -- over in another thread I'm making a case on your behalf that someone blithely using the word "ghetto" was being a little insensitive to you; but in here I find you bandying this thing around and then just laughing it off as "sarcasm"?
That other thread you speak of and the use of the word "ghetto" need not be defended by you nor is it insensitive to anyone, it is more of an indication of the person using the term and their ignorance. The comment that followed about the "40" indicates more the persons bias and stupidity and how they see certain people and their businesses. -
guru wrote: No, now, wait a minute -- over in another thread I'm making a case on your behalf that someone blithely using the word "ghetto" was being a little insensitive to you; but in here I find you bandying this thing around and then just laughing it off as "sarcasm"?
Guru, you misunderstand -- I was defending bknest in that thread.
That other thread you speak of and the use of the word "ghetto" need not be defended by you nor is it insensitive to anyone, it is more of an indication of the person using the term and their ignorance. The comment that followed about the "40" indicates more the persons bias and stupidity and how they see certain people and their businesses.
And bknest -- okay, maybe you're not a bigot. But you're certainly acting very abrasive to just about everyone, even when people are trying to be bloody nice to you. -
queencallipygos wrote: And bknest -- okay, maybe you're not a bigot. But you're certainly acting very abrasive to just about everyone, even when people are trying to be bloody nice to you.
What is your measure of what makes one a bigot or not? Is it simply talking about race, racial injustice, preferential treatment of one racial group over another? Or is it repeating and believing in certain racial stereotypes, drawing conclusions about all of one race because of the actions of a few? -
Hows everyone doing in here? Anything resolved yet? I dont want to miss the moment, but this is taking quite long. :?
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The resolution is that there isn't enough resolving power...Yet!
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