Bill O'Reilly's Harlem Shocker

Did he think that people were going to attack him and eat him? Was he surprised that he didn't get put into a pot to boil?

I've eaten at Sylvia's years before Harlem became a magnet for gentrifiers, and it's always been a good place. Heh, they're *quite* used to white people there because European tour groups get taken there to eat as part of their Harlem experience.

lilbangladesh wrote: Next up:

NEWS FLASH!!!! Most people in Crown Heights are polite and friendly! Film at 11!

:roll:

...literally being taken Waaay out of context. I saw andheard the complete story - bit of a grasp IMO. Juan Williams and O'Reilly went over it and video can be seen here with transcript. CNN is really desperate to get O'Reilly because he is crushing them and all other shows in ratings by 6 times...combined. in the original discussion he was talking about how his grandmother believed in bad stereotypes and he did not, etc. But since he is conservative, he is NOT allowed to mention anything about race or racism or it will be turned against him. Only a liberal is allowed to say there is no difference between black and white people, not a conservative.

I'm looking hard to be offended by something but I'm just not...

A good read is Juan Williams' book " Enough".

http://insidecable.blogsome.com/2007/09/25/cnn-vs-oreilly-oreillys-turn/

CNN vs. O’Reilly: O’Reilly’s turn…

Part of Bill O’Reilly’s Talking Points Memo on CNN…

Recently on the Radio Factor, I did an hour on how racism is dumb, how it is driven by fear and I even used my own late grandmother as an example. Now you can hear that radio hour on billoreilly.com. It’s a very interesting discussion and we didn’t hear one complaint about the program that ran on more than 400 radio stations.

Well, yesterday Media Matters distorted the entire conversation and implied I was racist for condemning racism.

Stunningly, CNN echoed the defamation on at least three of its programs. The reason CNN did this is because its ratings are abysmal. It is getting hammered by Fox News so they are desperate for attention and smearing me is one way to get it.

Unfortunately, many in CNN’s audience have no idea what I said and some believe the garbage they are hearing.

Now I talked to CNN last night before that program. It was obvious they didn’t listen to the Radio Factor so I explained the deal. They went ahead with the racist angle anyway.

This is dishonest and dangerous. If a slime machine like Media Matters can get its far-left propaganda on CNN and NBC News, the nation is in trouble.

Talking Points has said many times on this broadcast that we respect CNN. We have not attacked them in any way and in the past, they have been responsible. But this is absurd. The Media Matters defamation was also picked up by the local ABC affiliate here in New York City — again, totally irresponsible.

This was followed by Juan Williams talking with O’Reilly about the whole incident…

O’Reilly: Juan Williams is a big part of that Radio Factor hour. He joins us now from Washington with reaction.

This is almost funny if it wasn’t so dangerous for the nation. We had you on because your book, “Enough”, which is now out in paperback, is a very intelligence discussion about racism in America. And to set up your appearance, I told people about my grandmother that feared blacks even though she didn’t know any blacks. Then, I proceeded to tell the audience how ridiculous the fear was by me recounting the story of my going to Sylvia’s restaurant in Harlem with Al Sharpton. Now you heard the comments, you saw everything. What do you think about this dishonesty at CNN?

Williams: It’s rank dishonesty. The troubling thing is that if I hadn’t participated in the discussion, if I was just tuning into CNN or listening to MSNBC, and heard that ‘oh Bill O’Reilly said he went to Sylvia’s restaurant in Harlem and they weren’t using M-F and all this stuff’, I would think ‘Oh my God, what is he thinking? Where is that coming from? Why did he say something like that?’ Not understanding that discussion, Bill O’Reilly, I’m telling you it’s so frustrating. They want to shut you up. They want to shut anybody that has an honest discussion about race. You mentioned your grandmother. You mentioned the idea that your grandmother didn’t know any black people. She watches TV and gets these negative horrible images of black people and you had to say to her you know grandma you don’t know anybody. You don’t understand. What are you going to say about Nat King Cole? What are you going to say about people like Willie Mayes? What are you going to say about people you admire? And now they take this discussion and somehow turn it on its head. I am really appalled. I just can’t believe this is going on. It’s outrageous because the discussion we had was about how too often the images on TV are these rappers glorifying drugs, glorifying violence, degrading women, and the people like your grandmother, I defended your grandmother, I said your grandmother is watching TV and what does she see, all of these negative images of black people.

O’Reilly: I was tougher on my grandmother than you were. Anybody listening to it, and we have it on BillOReilly.com so the whole world can listen to it, would I think would have appreciated the discussion for being an exposition of why people are afraid of not only blacks but of everybody they don’t know. That was the theme, but here is the danger Juan. I have been attacked 109 times in one year by Media Matters. They attack Conservative and traditional commentators. They never attack Liberals. Ok. What can we do it’s freedom of speech, they can do what they want, but CNN knew this was distorted, knew what they were doing was wrong because we told them, and put it on anyway. So now what we have is CNN has joined NBC News in parroting far left propaganda in an attempt to destroy me and the FOX News Channel and to deceive their viewers. I think I have never seen anything this in the media ever. And in a presidential year, this becomes ultra dangerous.

Williams: It’s very dangerous. They want to marginalize you Bill. They want to shut you up, but here’s my complaint. They are trying to shut up anyone who is trying to have an honest thought about race relations in this country and wants to speak honestly about the damage that’s being done by the likes of these rappers or these comedians who use the n-word and all of that. They’re willing to celebrate Snoop Dogg or Twista or any of these guys go out there and present these minstrel show images of black people, but then when these images go out and impact not only white people and I think too often white people enjoy watching black people act the fool on TV like Flava of Love and all the rest, but it had such a pernicious impact on young black people who are trying to establish their own identity because they say if you walk around like a clown, and talk badly, that’s authentically black.

O’Reilly: That’s what you talk about in the book and that’s what our discussion was about.

Williams: That’s what the discussion was about and when you said you went to Sylvia’s, you said you went in there and the place was a normal restaurant with healthy discussion and you said that people were pleased and were in fact they celebrated the fact that here is Bill O’Reilly with Al Sharpton, ‘oh my gosh two celebrities in the house,’ and then you said everything settled down like a normal restaurant, ethnic like an Italian restaurant.

O’Reilly: It was an attempt to tell the radio audience that there is no difference black, white, we’re all Americans. The stereotypes they see on television are not true.

Williams: I’m glad you said that. You should repeat so they hear it again. You said stereotypes are not true. I said you should go up there more often. It shouldn’t be a foreign trip, but it had nothing to do with racist ranting by anybody except by these idiots at CNN.

O’Reilly: CNN has lost all creditability with me and this network, and it’s just a shame. We knew that MSNBC were a bunch of smear merchants. We didn’t expect this from CNN

.

more from here:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/09/25/juan-williams-defends-bill-o-reilly-calls-cnn-idiots

lmboogie wrote: [quote=...literally being taken Waaay out of context. /quote]
those were his words and feelings. he didn't say... hey, i know some of you feel this way about black people so let me explain that they are just like us. NO, he said he was surprised and shocked, all his personal feelings. his comments are so ignorant and retarded it's hard to be offended.

Actually...he did. And you misquoted him as well.

The comments were from the 2 hr "Radio Factor" when he was discussing ignorant people and his grandmothers feelings with Juan Williams. That's why he invited Juan back in the interview above. You have to hear the whole 1o minute conversation. His entire argument was absolutely against racism and stereotypes.

I am not sure how a person (who is not black) is supposed to say that there is no difference between races...without being considered a racist.

lmboogie wrote: 7180:Wait, let’s not go down this road. i didn’t say he was racist. i said ignorant. i just listed to the entire piece and stand by my comment. if his point was to tell the audience that there is no difference between black and white americans then that’s what he should have said. instead he described his own feelings after seeing black people dining at Sylvia’s. to be honest, i may be a bit more offended if i were white, i.e. y’all really need someone to tell you that people are people despite their race, culture, region, etc.. maybe I’m not doing a good job articulating my opinion. gotta get back to work but I’ll check in later and try to continue the dialog.

i understand what you are saying.
The words he said were meant FOR ignorant people hanging on to stereotypes.

This is from Juan Williams from the article link above:

...And now they take this discussion and somehow turn it on its head. I’m really appalled. And, I say that as someone who’s, I can’t believe this is going on. It’s outrageous because the discussion we had was about how too often on TV are these rappers glorifying drugs, glorifying violence and degrading women. […]

Here’s my complaint. They’re trying to shut up anybody who’s having an honest thought about race relations in this country, and wants to speak honestly about the damage being done by the likes of these rappers or these comedians who use the N-word, and all of that. You know, they’re willing to celebrate Snoop Dogg, or Twista, or any of these guys who go out there and present these minstrel show images of black people. […]

When you said you went up to Sylvia’s, you said you went in there, the place was a normal restaurant, healthy discussion, people were pleased, and in fact, they celebrated the fact that here’s Bill O’Reilly with Al Sharpton – Oh my gosh, two celebrities are in the house. And then you said everything settled down like a normal restaurant, ethnic like an Italian restaurant. […]

I’m glad you said that. You should repeat that so they here it again. You said stereotypes are not true. I said you should go up there more often, it shouldn’t be a foreign trip. But it had nothing to do with racist ranting by anybody except these idiots at CNN.

Somehow, I don't imagine Williams's statements will be replayed on CNN or MSNBC.

How 'bout you?—Noel Sheppard

I try to imagine what it would be like if I were given 2 minutes on the floor of the U.N. to make a speech that, if successful, would magically END all racism and hate in the world. But it could only be 2 minutes and it would have to be the perfect paragraph. My first draft, which needs some work, might go something like this:

----------
"I am here to say that all racism is a waste of time; we are all the same and want the same things for our families and loved ones. We are all more alike than different and if we could just realize that, we could do powerful and great things. We have to realize that the differences in our pigmentation are visual and we are all the same spiritually. Let's love each other and help each other and put aside all petty things that have nothing to do with bringing us together."
---------------

Media Matters and CNN pick up the speech and "quote" me:


We are all more alike than different and if we could just realize that, we could do powerful and great things.

"You know, I cant believe this guys is expressing SHOCK that we are all the same, I mean, is this guy surprised? How ignorant of him to suggest otherwise - what is he thinking?? I am then labeled ignorant and the speech a failure. Racism and protest continue; which I guess is the point for some who make a living from it.

I guess thats why nothing really gets done at the U.N. anymore.
Later in the day I order a unilateral, preemptive strike to target all racists

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SevenOneEighty wrote: [quote=queencallipygos][quote=SevenOneEighty]i understand what you are saying.
The words he said were meant FOR ignorant people hanging on to stereotypes.

...Or, that's how he spun it when he saw how people reacted.

Forgive me, but I doubt the sincerity of that explanation. At the very least, if that's what he was trying to do, then he did a very poor job of phrasing his statement so as to make his intentions clear.


I actually heard it live when he said the entire thing, so he did include it in its context. It played in over 400 stations nationwide and there was no complaint until media matters used quotes that were more than 5 minutes apart.

7180:seriously, you don't see a difference between your 2 min speech to the UN and you including in your speech comments like.... i went into a jewish deli and was shocked that not all jews are like jackie mason or i traveled to asia and not everyone was doing karate like bruce lee. the media didn't misquote him, he said those words. the media may not have given us the full picture but even when i listened to the 10 min tape, i still felt he sounded like an uneducated, ignorant individual. he was genuinely shocked at his experience, that has to say something about him as an individual. his comments on the concert were even more ridiculous.

Yea, I heard the whole thing live and just didn't get that from its intent, purpose or spirit of the conversation he was having. But that is the way it is, I guess. I appreciated what he was saying to people who may have negative images of black people via hip hop culture and TV. I just dont see Bill O'Reilly is the main problem in the black community and I have a big problem with Nas and other artists because of their harmful lyrics and portrayals of black people.

Bill could disappear tomorrow and things would be the same in the black community.

Just because he has a black commentator on his show does not make him any less racist and/or ignorant. It falls into the category of "But my best friend is black!" excuse. (Now my best friend is black, but I know better than to use that to buttress any argument.)

Even if he says that he was coming out against racism, and I am willing to take him at his word, it was the WAY he presented it that came out so offensive. I am willing to take him at his word that he's not personally racist (many conservatives aren't), but that definitely means that he's at best culturally insensitive.

I thought Bill O'Reilly was losing his show?

True. But you are missing the point. Juan Wiliams was ON the show via phone call when he supposedly made the statements. And Bill is not laying claim to the number of black friends he has, Juan Williams came to HIS defense afterwards as well. Doubtful he will lose his show though when his ratings are 6 times CNN, but who knows in this atmosphere.

I hope we can really get to the real issues of racism in this country and - beyond the snippets. I fear we will never be able to get there and will always be directed to the "designated protest area", with no resolutions in sight. I'm not sure how 65-70 year old white men will be able to participate in this discussion though, they may offend too many people without even trying because of their intonation.

It's just tiring to have the SAME conversations about race and racism all the time, isn't it? It Will be interesting in hearing Al Sharpton, his dinner guest, tonight on the show to get his take. I fear that white people will fear ever bringing up race and racism (which is needed to solve it) because they fear being accused of being racists if they don't explain everything exactly the "right way" without offending anyone.

Honestly, no matter what the context was it's still ignorant and insensitive. It should not be a revelation that a black owned business patronized by predominately black ppl "didn't have any craziness at all", etc. The fact that he felt compelled to let his veiwers and listeners know this shows THEIR ignorance as well. I don't know anyone who uses Britney, Lindsay or O'reilly himself as an indicator of how the majority acts. So why should Ludacris, Twista, and Snoop be a representation my ppl as a WHOLE?! I do agree that had Bill not said this it wouldn't change problems that plague black ppl(no one said O'reilly was the main problem). But should I not be offended? Anytime someone jewish deems something anti-semitic no one seems to have this "big deal get over it" attitude. Someone got fired last year for referring to his jewish lawyer as "crafty". Now I didnt see what was offensive about it BUT it's not my place to tell others what they should or shouldnt be offended by even if that wasn't the intent. Are you familiar w/ Nas as an artist? I think you may have watched one too many nights of O'reilly Factor! Listen to these songs by NaS:

"what goes around"
"black girl lost"
"I can"
"doo rags"
"no ideas original"
"black zombies"
"one mic"
"heaven"
"dance"
"bridging the gap"
"rewind"
"I gave you power"
"2nd childhood"
"project window"
"me and you"
"just a moment"
Start w/ those...there's plenty more!! We would be lucky to have more HipHop artists like NaS!

SevenOneEighty wrote:

Shoot 'Em Up Lyrics
Artist(Band):Nas

[Nas]
One 44, two 45's
3 loaded clips, 4 niggas roll, one nigga drives
500 Benz, 6 reasons why
This kid should die
We shootin every motherfucker outside
Pulled on his block, jumped out the car, guns in our hand
At the same time everybody ran
There that nigga go, hiding in the crowd
Let the trigger blow, 7 shots now he lying on the ground
Blood on the floor
Then we shot some more
Niggas he was with
2 niggas hit, one nigga fell
One tryed to run, go get him son
Make sure he's done before we bail, i aint trying to goto jail
Must handle beef, code of the street
Load up the heat, if these nigga think they could fuck around
Real niggas do real things
By all means, niggas knowin how we get down.. It goes......

Chorus (4X)
Shoot 'em up, just shoot 'em up, what..
(whispering)
Kill kill kill, murder murder murder

[Nas]
Driving through the roads, Suburban Chevrolet
6 tinted windows, and I'm on my way
To get up with my hoes, I pull up to they house
Not a freak to be heard, nobody came out
Ringin the bell, where in the hell
Could they be at, I'm about to leave
Steppin' slow, where my truck was at
Who the fuck is that?
Could it be a jack?
Now pull my strap, it's my man
And we have the same plan
There them bitches go
Civic '94, looking funny though
Open up the car door, funny smile
Fuck 2 already, 3rd ass was heavy
"Nas this is Sherri, Sherri this is Nas, and his man. Ready?"
Walked in the house, snatched off they clothes
Ran through them hoes
Plenty ice, that they all seemed to like
Can't find my man, heard a blam blam
Now I'm wonderin, "In this scam, do I even stand a chance?"
He killed the hoes, took all they dough
Fire in his eyes, higher than the sky
Comin down the stairs
Now he wantin mine, reachin for my nine
Aiming with our guns at each others face, at the same time
my nine on his lips, his fifth on my chin, I start whispering
"Put your gun down, we can skip town"
Rocked him to sleep, pushed back his meat
Lift off his chain
Took his shit, emptied out close range...

Chorus (4X)
(3rd time there is no whispering of:
"kill kill kill, murder murder muder.)

Just not a big fan. I make no apologies.

Oh now I get it...you DO watch O'reilly Factor. This was the same song he used an an example of why Nas shouldnt be allowed to do the VA Tech concert. It's funny you were talking about context...if you were familiar w/ Nas' work you'd know that song is what's called a "storytelling" rhyme, kinda like a movie in rhyme form.

Yo, you believe when they say we ain't shit, we can't grow?
All we are is dope dealers, and gangstas and hoes?
And you believe when they be tellin you lie, all on the media?
They make the world look crazy to keep you inside?
Why you listen when the teachers at school
know you a young single parent out strugglin, they think you a fool
Give your kids bad grades and put 'em in dumber classes
Killin shorty future, I wonder how do we last it
Underground in they casket? Ancestors turnin
I'm learnin somethin every day, there is no Lazareth
Words like God is Greek or Latin
So if you study Egypt, you'll see the truth written by the masters
My niggaz is chillin, gettin high, relaxin
Envisionin, ownin shit, yo it can happen
What do we own? Not enough land, not enough homes
Not enough banks, to give a brother a loan
What do we own? The skin on our backs, we run and we ask
for reperations, then they hit us with tax
And insurance if we live to be old, what about now?
So stop bein controlled, we black zombies

[Chorus: (sung)]
Walkin talkin dead, though we think we're livin (black zombies)
We just copy-cat, followin the system (black zombies)
Walkin talkin dead, though we think we're livin (black zombies)
We just copy-cat, followin the system (black zombies)

[Nas]
Aiyyo we trapped in our own brain, fuck behind bars
We've already gone insane
They've already gave up, cut our own heads offs
Stab our own backs and dream too much
without fulfillin reality; too greedy and
can't have one or two chains, we need three of dem
Can't have one or two guns without squeezin 'em
on our own people and, fuck black leaders
cause whites ain't got none leadin them, the rhythm is cosmic
Nas is divinity, the deity's prophetless
All get down and get up
Victims walkin 'round with Down's Syndrome, all stuck
Faintin, shoutin, catchin Holy Ghost in church
Scared to do it for ourselves 'less we see somebody doin it first
We begged, we prayed, petitioned and demostrated
Just to make another generation - black zombies

[Chorus]

[Nas]
You scared to be yourself, cause you in a trance
Feel free, hear the music and dance
If you cared what they think, why wear what they wear, just for you
Dumb niggaz with long beards like they Arabs or Jews
or from Israel, Bismi-Allah Al-rahman Al-raheem
Islam's a beautiful thing
And Christian and Rastafari, helps us to bring
peace against the darkness, which is unGodly
So what's the black man's true religion, who should we follow?
Use your own intuition, you are tommorrow
[roaring] .. that's the sound of the beast
I'm a Columbia record slave, so get paid
Control your own destiny, you are a genius
Don't let it happen to you like it did to me, I was a black zombie

[Chorus]

But the thing is, rap is not about presenting the black community to the rest of the world. It's about communicating their reality to the rest of the world. The fact is, in certain neighborhoods, drive-bys are a way of life. An artist can sing about this without condoning the act or do you think Nick Cave is justifying and advocating violence against women in his murder ballads? Did Johnny Cash really kill someone to watch him die? Does anyone in their right mind think that he was advancing this as a good thing to do? Art is a reflection of reality and sometimes reality is ugly.

Now with hypercommercialized hiphop, there is a problem with glorification of violence. It's just presented in a way to shock and titillate rather than as a comment on the way we live. It's just crap. But I think most people recognize that it is crap.

Myself, I'm a Public Enemy girl. Intelligent political rap with a point.

WhyFi wrote: Woo hoo! The Perfect Storm! The same ol' race discussion has now been joined by the same ol' rap-reflects-reality-and-rap-creates-reality discussion!

crap.
you're right.
sigh.

OMG, and some Jews eat pork! :shock:

I have to agree with you there. It's actually starting to remind me of the "dumbest Asian guy" thread.

lilbangladesh wrote: ...do you think Nick Cave is justifying and advocating violence against women in his murder ballads? Did Johnny Cash really kill someone to watch him die?

I think white people should ask themselves how they'd feel if the likes of Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears would be the stereotype to which they'd be held to. Just for a little bit and see how it fits.