Indoor cats that want to go outdoors

Make sure they are fixed and have their shots...

I am a veterinarian.

Cats that go outside are less obese, have less destructive behavior due to boredom inside, less emotional issues, gain confidence and eat plants and grass which helps their digestion.

Im talking supervised here.

I have 4 cats. 2 of them were street cats from Singapore but were pretty domesticated by the time we moved here. I have a backyard and they have learnt to scale the fence to go "play" outside. They can stay out for days at a time, but always come back. Well, once, the more daring one disappeared for 5 days and I had to put out flyers (VERY sad moment) and turned out she was stuck in some wide air shaft thing and a lady was looking after her waiting for someone to claim her. So thank god for that.

Otherwise, I've learnt, after going to other ppl's backyard (they called and told me they saw my cat after my flyers were up) that the area beyond my fence is pretty self-contained within the half-block (i.e. there's a tall tall fence halving the whole block after which there's a school). So I feel happier knowing that if they get "lost" they must be within the half-block. I think they also play with the other stray cats and I know of at least one lady that puts out food for the stray cats as well (which I'm sure my kitties help themselves to).

Point is: I'm happy they get to go "outside" while they are actually still contained. I always felt kinda guilty that they were "trapped" in my tiny apartment in Singapore. They seem happier too. And I agree with eatshoplocal...the more scaredy-cat one used to be such a wimp and he's gotten alot more confident and strong (he was the runt of the litter) since he's been able to go out and run around and play.

Oh, and I haven't had to use kitty litter in a loooong time since they have learnt to go in the soil outside. Can't beat that!

kelchan wrote: I have 4 cats. 2 of them were street cats from Singapore but were pretty domesticated by the time we moved here. I have a backyard and they have learnt to scale the fence to go "play" outside. They can stay out for days at a time, but always come back. Well, once, the more daring one disappeared for 5 days and I had to put out flyers (VERY sad moment) and turned out she was stuck in some wide air shaft thing and a lady was looking after her waiting for someone to claim her. So thank god for that.

Otherwise, I've learnt, after going to other ppl's backyard (they called and told me they saw my cat after my flyers were up) that the area beyond my fence is pretty self-contained within the half-block (i.e. there's a tall tall fence halving the whole block after which there's a school). So I feel happier knowing that if they get "lost" they must be within the half-block. I think they also play with the other stray cats and I know of at least one lady that puts out food for the stray cats as well (which I'm sure my kitties help themselves to).

Point is: I'm happy they get to go "outside" while they are actually still contained. I always felt kinda guilty that they were "trapped" in my tiny apartment in Singapore. They seem happier too. And I agree with eatshoplocal...the more scaredy-cat one used to be such a wimp and he's gotten alot more confident and strong (he was the runt of the litter) since he's been able to go out and run around and play.

Oh, and I haven't had to use kitty litter in a loooong time since they have learnt to go in the soil outside. Can't beat that!

My childhood cat was raised exactly the same way. Although she came home every night, she would go outside and disappear into other back yards, hang with other cats, sometimes they'd come to our yard too. You never saw the cats in the street, only in the back yards. I guess the cats knew that dogs and people were on the streets, so they chose to claim the backyards.

When I see indoor cats I fee sorry for them. They tend to end up obese with very low self esteem.

doublediamond wrote:

I understand that many pet owners fall on different sides of this issue, but I also have not spoken to an urban vet who felt it was ok to let domesticated cats outdoors in an unenclosed area.

neither have i.

Newsome wrote: It seems a cat is at much less risk staying inside. This likely means a happier owner but I'm not so sure about a happier cat.

Well, it's not like the cat is locked up in a cage. There's consistent food, water, temperature, comfort, love and entertainment. All the cats I've seen outside in here in Brooklyn and Jersey City have been skinny and frightened and not at all happy.

One would think by the comments here endorsing outdoor cats we were in Kansas on a farm.

caseopele wrote: I have 4 cats who have never been allowed outside. Wednesday was 2 months old when I got her in WV, she's 13 now. Caseopia was about 4 months when I got her, found on the street by a friend, she's 9 now. Pele was 3-4 months old, a coworker had to rescue her from her friend's drug addicted son, she's 7 now. Kiki is maybe 8, someone dropped her off at a rescue group's table in February. She was a stray that the person found and took in but couldn't keep her.

I also have 2 foster cats who are 1-2 years old, they were left behind for 3 days when their owner was evicted. The super of the building tossed them out on the fire escape when he found them. They hooked up with a feral cat colony behind the building and were both pregnant when I took them in.

Not one of these cats is unhealthy, depressed, destructive, or anything other than happy and healthy. I don't give 2 shits for the "reasons" people give for allowing their cats to go outside in a city. I love my cats and want them to live long happy lives. Doublediamond said it, the risks far outweigh the benefits. 3 feral cats were "accidentally" killed over a span of about 2 weeks by a dog a few blocks away from me. Here's a nice pros and cons list I modified from About.com:

Pros of keeping your cat indoors
1. Injury or death by vehicles
2. Poisoned intentionally or accidentally
3. Injury or death by fighting with other cats
4. Infectious diseases contracted from other cats: FIP,FIV,FeLV,URIs
5. Parasites: fleas, ticks, ringworm
6. Injury or death by sadists
7. Injury or death by dogs or predators
8. Getting lost, picked up by A/C
9. Theft for sale as laboratory animals or "bait" for dog fighting

Cons
1. Indoor cats are lazy, and don't get the exercise they need.
2. Cats by their very nature deserve the freedom of outdoor life.
3. Cats love the outdoors, fresh air and sunshine, and I love watching them there.

If you are lucky enough to have a backyard, get your cat a leash and only let it out when you're there. Cats are not dogs, they don't respond to commands and behave irrationally when frightened. When you take an animal in, you are responsible for their safety. What happens when the cat you let outside "that always comes back" doesn't? Can you live without ever knowing what happened to the cat? Or will you just choose to believe that a kind person took them in and they're living happily somewhere els?

Thats a pretty extensive list! LOL

2, 3, 4, 5 can probably be diagnosed and treated. 1, 6, 7 can happen to humans too. 8 & 9 would be unfortunate but 8 shouldnt happen if the cat has a collar, and 9, well I would be curious to see the odds on that.

I dont advocate letting cats run wild in the street, but if you have a backyard that is in line with a bunch of other enclosed backyards, cats tend to stay within those confines. They naturally do not like being out in the open where there's noise and bigger creatures. They're similar to squirrel in that way. They dont seek chaos.

I'm sure house cats are extremely safe, but I would just feel like I was preventing the cat from being a cat if she was not permitted to explore the backyards, use her instincts, catch a bird or two, or play with or even fight other cats. Its all part of being a cat. The house cats that I have seen over the years all tended to be huge, slow, and followed me into every room in the house, and cried if the door was closed for even a second. Very poor self esteem, and starved for attention. If your cats are not like that, good on you. It must be hard to keep them fit if you have to leave them in the house alone to go to work for 8 hours, unless you have a cat sitter or some kind of timed food & water release system to control their intake.

I just think about all the times we end up seeing announcements here about missing cats who were outside cats, so many of which say things like, "She was just in our backyard!" as if a fence means anything to a cat. I can't remember ever seeing one of these notices for an indoor cat.

My co-worker lets her cats go outside all of the time. They play in her backyard, all except the father. He visits the neighbor's cats down the block for days at a time. He practically lives at two houses. However, he does all of his travel through the backyards, like so many of the house cats that go outside tend to.

Maybe some of those missing cats were housecats that rushed out the door when they finally saw their chance? Who knows. I dont think there's only one way to raise cats, but letting them go outside if you have enclosed backyards shouldnt be so easily dismissed.

bklynpetunia wrote: "Oh, and I haven't had to use kitty litter in a loooong time since they have learnt to go in the soil outside. Can't beat that!"
-- Great. Tell that to my neighbor with a crawling infant and a toddler, who has to check his yard for cat poop everytime he lets the kids outside.

It always pissed me off when cats shit in my sandbox when I was a kid. Later in life, it pissed my neighbor off when my mom's cat ate the fish out of his pond. And it pissed me off when my cat's head got run over by a car driven by an unlicensed teenage driver speeding on a side street. On the plus side, the vet said that a cat's skull is so thick, that it was probably the best place to have been hit. He was roadrashed, a couple teeth busted, ripped up ear, and a hole in his tongue, but otherwise OK. The shock took a good week for him to shake off, and that was the end of outdoor cats for me. He is still living happily indoors, where he will remain. Your mileage my vary.

i hope that everyone can agree on one thing:

if you are going to let your cat outdoors, you need to equip him with one of these.

eatshoplocal wrote: I am a veterinarian.

Cats that go outside are less obese, have less destructive behavior due to boredom inside, less emotional issues, gain confidence and eat plants and grass which helps their digestion.

Im talking supervised here.

I would assume that these studies that claim cats are happier and healthier by having outside privileges were done in places other than Brooklyn. I can not imagine anyone would say that a cat that goes outside in Brooklyn is going to be healthier in any way. This makes me giggle. Especially coming from a veterinarian.

bklynpetunia wrote: Oy, Kelchan, I'm wondering if you live on my block. There's nothing wrong with letting your cats out for a brief time, under supervision. That's how I let my kitty out. What I have a hard time understanding are the people that let their cats wander for hours, thinking it's safe because the block is enclosed.

Quote - "I think they also play with the other stray cats.."

What kind of considerate neighbor/cat owner lets their cat interact with other strange cats? Besides the fact that other people who just let their cats out may not be responsible enough to keep vaccinations up to date and fleas in check, cats aren't like dogs - they are less social and more territorial, much more likely to fight than make friends. Even cats in multi-cat households will still fight an "intruder." So then all your neighbors get to hear your cats screeching and yowling at all hours.

First, there's no way I can keep my cats within the backyard. I don't have air-conditioning at home, hence, over summer, the doors and windows are wide open 24/7, even when we are out. Altho' we have a high fence (with barbed wire, that's why I'm ok with leaving the back windows/door open), they have learnt to scale it. I've tried a leash before, but I haven't found a leash that they can't wiggle themselves out of (even a harness..somehow they know how to contort & contract their bodies to get out of it).

About being "considerate", I think Guvna put it best "Yes, they benefit from our protection, but they also have incredible instincts, reflexes, and decent intelligence.".

Believe me, when I first moved to this apartment, from a tiny enclosed apt in Singapore where my kitties NEVER left, I FREAKED OUT the first time they managed to escape. If it was my choice, I'd love my babies at home with me 24/7. But, my husband (who had cats his whole life and is VERY experienced with cats) told me basically to let them wander. And really, I think they are much happier cats now. That whole confidence thing is apparent with the younger cat that goes out. He was the runt of the litter, super domesticated, & was starting to get fat. Now, he's really built up a strong body over the last 6mths of running around and he's much more confident. I do get worried about them, but I'd rather they have a life run by instinct and being in nature, than to be a "toy" at home. And really, they were street cats once in the city of Singapore (MUCH more cars/people/strays than in Park Slope)...I trust their instincts.

bklynpetunia wrote: "Oh, and I haven't had to use kitty litter in a loooong time since they have learnt to go in the soil outside. Can't beat that!"
-- Great. Tell that to my neighbor with a crawling infant and a toddler, who has to check his yard for cat poop everytime he lets the kids outside.

I have no excuse for that. I apologize if my cat has pooped in other ppl's yards. And I'd gladly come over and clean it up if it was evident that my cat was the one that did it. But, I do know that there are plenty of other stray cats running around the backyard too, and my own yard gets pooped on. So.....? Again, NO EXCUSE if it was my cat that did it. I apologize for that. pm me if you wanna ask which block i live in & i'll describe to you what my kitties look like. if you see them pooping in your backyard, call me and i'll come clean it.

Leozoeypiper wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=caseopele]I have 4 cats who have never been allowed outside. Wednesday was 2 months old when I got her in WV, she's 13 now. Caseopia was about 4 months when I got her, found on the street by a friend, she's 9 now. Pele was 3-4 months old, a coworker had to rescue her from her friend's drug addicted son, she's 7 now. Kiki is maybe 8, someone dropped her off at a rescue group's table in February. She was a stray that the person found and took in but couldn't keep her.

I also have 2 foster cats who are 1-2 years old, they were left behind for 3 days when their owner was evicted. The super of the building tossed them out on the fire escape when he found them. They hooked up with a feral cat colony behind the building and were both pregnant when I took them in.

Not one of these cats is unhealthy, depressed, destructive, or anything other than happy and healthy. I don't give 2 shits for the "reasons" people give for allowing their cats to go outside in a city. I love my cats and want them to live long happy lives. Doublediamond said it, the risks far outweigh the benefits. 3 feral cats were "accidentally" killed over a span of about 2 weeks by a dog a few blocks away from me. Here's a nice pros and cons list I modified from About.com:

Pros of keeping your cat indoors
1. Injury or death by vehicles
2. Poisoned intentionally or accidentally
3. Injury or death by fighting with other cats
4. Infectious diseases contracted from other cats: FIP,FIV,FeLV,URIs
5. Parasites: fleas, ticks, ringworm
6. Injury or death by sadists
7. Injury or death by dogs or predators
8. Getting lost, picked up by A/C
9. Theft for sale as laboratory animals or "bait" for dog fighting

Cons
1. Indoor cats are lazy, and don't get the exercise they need.
2. Cats by their very nature deserve the freedom of outdoor life.
3. Cats love the outdoors, fresh air and sunshine, and I love watching them there.

If you are lucky enough to have a backyard, get your cat a leash and only let it out when you're there. Cats are not dogs, they don't respond to commands and behave irrationally when frightened. When you take an animal in, you are responsible for their safety. What happens when the cat you let outside "that always comes back" doesn't? Can you live without ever knowing what happened to the cat? Or will you just choose to believe that a kind person took them in and they're living happily somewhere els?

Thats a pretty extensive list! LOL

2, 3, 4, 5 can probably be diagnosed and treated. 1, 6, 7 can happen to humans too. 8 & 9 would be unfortunate but 8 shouldnt happen if the cat has a collar, and 9, well I would be curious to see the odds on that.

I dont advocate letting cats run wild in the street, but if you have a backyard that is in line with a bunch of other enclosed backyards, cats tend to stay within those confines. They naturally do not like being out in the open where there's noise and bigger creatures. They're similar to squirrel in that way. They dont seek chaos.

I'm sure house cats are extremely safe, but I would just feel like I was preventing the cat from being a cat if she was not permitted to explore the backyards, use her instincts, catch a bird or two, or play with or even fight other cats. Its all part of being a cat. The house cats that I have seen over the years all tended to be huge, slow, and followed me into every room in the house, and cried if the door was closed for even a second. Very poor self esteem, and starved for attention. If your cats are not like that, good on you. It must be hard to keep them fit if you have to leave them in the house alone to go to work for 8 hours, unless you have a cat sitter or some kind of timed food & water release system to control their intake.

You apparently don't have a cat. 2, 3, 4 are not easily treatable. How much money do you want to spend at the vet taking care of those things that can be prevented by keeping your cat indoors? I hope that you have a lot in your savings or a credit card. 1, 6, 7 can happen to humans, but hey, we aren't talking about humans here. 8, collars come off and people take them off. Microchips may take care of this but someone would actually have to scan the cat. Most vets don't scan rescued cats unless requested to do so.

I have had cats, and some of my friends still have cats. Your list was a bit much, to be honest. The house cats that I have seen (my wife regularly house sits for some of her vacationing friends) are all obese, lazy, have poor self esteem, and head to the food dish at every break in activity. That is not the life a cat should live.

I grew up with a cat that had a great home, but also loved the backyards. To see fat house cats that dont know how to handle themselves and enjoy being outside is the complete opposite lifestyle to what I know cats are capable of. I would rather them have a good life being a cat that can go in the backyards than to let them become obese house playthings simply because I fear that some other cat might kill them in some sort of bizarre cat murder.

Some of the other stuff on your list involved possibilities, rather than probabilities. Poisoning, death by dogs, sadists, being picked up by A/C, etc, in my experience are not very likely to happen in backyards. It looks more like your "Worst case scenario" list than anything I've experienced with cats personally. Could they happen? Anything could happen, but the same could be said of the possibilities for some kinds of misfortune in the house. Gas leak, fire, flood. A friend had her house burgled. The intruders put the cat in the bath tub. He was unharmed, but still, I'm sure when she went to work she thought he was safest at home, when indeed it turned out he couldve been killed by crazy intruders.

Flea treatments are actually pretty easy. Ringworm less so, but still not too bad. As for infectious diseases, they are pretty serious. I understand why the possibilty of infection would cause some to keep their cats on leashes, and lock them indoors when at work, etc. Personally, I would still let them out. If they get sick, then I will work with the vet to get them health again. We do that with kids everyday. I just feel that they should be allowed to have an active life that allows them to be cats.

i've had indoor cats, indoor/outdoor cats, and cats who had various lifestyles at various points.

none of them was/is my "toy" or "plaything". that's an obnoxious assumption, frankly. neither did i not care or take seriously the health and happiness of the ones who were allowed outside. ditto.

also, fwiw, my fattest cat was always fat, even when she spent lots of time outside chasing squirrels and getting dive-bombed by blue jays. my least bored cat, over all, is probably my current tom, indoor for life, who nevertheless finds many potential entertainments in our small apartment. (already today he has learned new things about trying to stand on the shoulders of garments hung in the closet -- it works only up to a point.)