newsflash: white kids still more priviledged
ok, not a newsflash.
This is not news to many people, but since many other people decry affirmative action, it's especially nice to see real data crunched.
from The Chronicle of Higher Education and the Boston Globe, via The American Prospect ttp://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=10&year=2007&base_name=news_white_kids_still_more_pri#018350
This is not news to many people, but since many other people decry affirmative action, it's especially nice to see real data crunched.
from The Chronicle of Higher Education and the Boston Globe, via The American Prospect ttp://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=10&year=2007&base_name=news_white_kids_still_more_pri#018350
rich, well-connected white kids are much more likely to push
more-qualified students aside for seats at the country's most
prestigious schools than black or Latino students, despite all the
chatter about the evils of affirmative action.
researchers with access to the college admissions data that many:roll:
institutions keep a tight guard on found that 15 percent of freshmen at
146 "highly selective" colleges are white students who didn't meet the
school's minimum admissions standards for high school GPAs and SAT or
ACT scores. There are more than twice as many sub-par privileged white
kids at highly competitive institutions than there are black and Latino
students whose race gave them a boost in competing for a spot, the
researchers found. Some of the white kids are athletes, and many others
are the children or friends of alumni, politicians, faculty members,
donors, and administrators.
Comments
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Oh yeah. This isn't exactly news. I could have sailed into Harvard with my mediocre grades because my dad is an alumnus. (And my peers thought I was nuts for not going there. Never mind that their music program is subpar.)
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as a asian guy i hate affirmative action. it is racist to my group. we fill up the quota right away. its not fair. if white liberals want it. they should just apply it to themselves and the groups that need it.
or they could do things base on economic back grounds which is more effective. -
hear hear. The real barrier to a college education nowadays isn't race (though it is still a factor) but socioeconomic background. I find it interesting that many of these elite colleges have a way of jerryrigging their affirmative action quotas in such a way that those from poor backgrounds still get shafted. I mean, if everyone comes from the same upper-middle-class background, regardless of race and culture, how is it diversity? How do these kids even begin to identify with the average person who really has to struggle to make it?
The one advantage of going to a state school was that it was brought home to me quite clearly how privileged I was. Most of my friends had to work to put themselves through school, and quite a few didn't make it. As liberal as I may be, my liberalism would be pretty damn hollow from an upper-middle-class ivory tower with no real-life experience, such as watching my best friend and his wife struggle to get off welfare.
The scary thing is our leaders generally come out of the elite schools yet they have almost zero contact with the average person whose life they will be affecting with their policies. I mean, they are vaguely aware of the people who clean their toilets, but only just. This is part of the reason why there has been such a divorce between the ideology of state policies and the reality of the real people such policies affect. Many kids coming out of these schools today are snots who have zero empathy for those who don't have trust funds. -
I disagree, lilb. there are multiple factors, but race and ethnicity are STILL an issue. how do I know this? I'm a white, hispanic woman. when I was at wellesley 10 years ago (yeah, I'm old), I filed a complaint about a professor who, after I requested assistance with his class, informed me that I was expecting quite a lot of myself as a cuban woman from the public school system in miami. said with a sneer, btw.
another professor, from one of my majors, decided I had a learning disability because I couldn't figure out how to do work in his class the way he was teaching it. I finally figured it out on my own, using books from the library on alternative ways of learning LINEAR ALGEBRA (ahem), but I also reported him for humiliating me and making me feel like a complete fucking idiot. there was mention of my public school background and my gender in that incident, incidentally. yes, at a women's college. later, talking to other women in the math and computer science programs, we found that there were many other such incidents. all reported to the college.
so fast forward to the 10 year reunion I attended this summer. both of these professors were made honorary alumnae of the college. I was furious - I love wellesley, but come on. these guys are racist, classist and misogynistic. what. the. fuck.
so the problems of higher education exist on multiple levels. affirmative action is one of the many, perhaps flawed, methods of trying to deal with that. even now. -
I never said that race and gender have ceased to be problems in academia. Just that it seems that discrimination on class has become far more pervasive. I, too, have encountered gender discrimination, but far more often in the working world (ya gotta love earning less than the people you're supervising!) than in academia. To the extent that I have encountered discrimination in academia, I ran into far more sexism from FEMALE professors than from male ones, who were generally more supportive, even in my astrophysics classes. I think many women operate under the idea of "only so much room for women at the top" so they do their level best to discourage any ambitious females. Some of them even made me cry. Not only does this stupid idea impede women's progress in the workplace, but it basically guarantees that there will continue to be no room at the top.
And yeah, race is still a problem. My best friend's kid is white and has been discriminated against so blatantly by the administration of the mostly black high school she goes to that her parents are encouraging her to drop out and get her G.E.D. The irony is that my best friend is black. I told him that if he sued, he'd probably win, but he feels that dragging his family through court would be too traumatic.
I just feel that if affirmative action was more class-based, say, it would still help women and minorities because they tend to come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds (women in lower socioeconomic backgrounds are more likely to seek a college education than males). At the same time, it would eliminate any charges of racial bias and preferences.
Also, here's the downside of affirmative action: (And I say this as a fan of affirmative action. I want to fine-tune it, not eliminate it.) I know many talented minorities of whom it was assumed that they were there ONLY because of affirmative action. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the assumption of those professors who discriminated against you.
I just think it would be hard for anyone to say, "Well, you only got in because you were POOR." -
Intersting article from the Washington Post from Sunday.
Sad.
Somehow, I think this problem is more widespread than just this school and contributes to lack of preparation at the university level and beyond.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/06/AR2007100601165.htmlWhatever Happened to The Class of 2005?
story continues but check link.....
They entered Cardozo High with hopes and dreams. Now, some regret their unfulfilled promise.
By V. Dion Haynes and Aruna Jain
Sunday, October 7, 2007; Page A01
Danielle Chappell had no reason to doubt she was a solid student. She earned decent grades, even scoring some A's in English and math, while balancing schoolwork with basketball, track and a spot on the dance team. Hear her story.
Then she graduated from Cardozo High School and arrived at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore, where she bombed the placement tests so badly that she had to take remedial English and math. She failed the makeup math course twice before passing it. Low grades overall put her on academic probation. Finally, mid-sophomore year, she was forced to withdraw.
In the 1950s, Cardozo's new location was a beacon of black academic hopes. Several decades later, when the Class of 2005 arrived, the building had deteriorated so much that students said it distracted from their academic education.
Gallery
The Evolution of Cardozo High School
In the 1950s, Cardozo's new location was a beacon of black academic hopes. Several decades later, when the Class of 2005 arrived, the building had deteriorated so much that students said it distracted from their academic education.
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Chappell sometimes thinks back to the Cardozo math teacher who, instead of assigning algebra homework, would have students clip photos of motorcycles from magazines and do other projects unrelated to math. "I thought it was strange and weird," Chappell said, but she did not complain because the class was "an easy A."
She wishes now that she had demanded more from Cardozo, and that Cardozo had demanded more from her.
To examine the fate of one graduating class of D.C. high school students is to find multiple stories like Chappell's -- stories that illustrate how a struggling urban school system often fails to shepherd its students and set them on a promising path to adulthood.
Efforts to fix the District's public schools have long been hampered by an inability to collect accurate information about many aspects of the system, such as a reliable dropout rate or a way to track how students have fared after leaving.
The Washington Post surveyed Cardozo's Class of 2005 with those questions in mind, reaching 127 students or their families, just over half of the 243 who began as freshmen. Cardozo, which overlooks the city from a hill in Columbia Heights, was chosen because it falls between the highest- and lowest-performing schools in the District.
Over four years, the class had its share of bright spots -- hints of what might be possible given more resources, better management and more family support. But the survey showed that, despite heroic efforts by some teachers and administrators, Cardozo's generally low academic standards led to disappointment in college. Other students said they suffered from the failures of a city public school system that could not keep records straight, classrooms orderly or hallways safe.
More than one third, or 49, of the students surveyed had dropped out of high school, often citing their inability to keep up, their need to get a job or the absence of efforts by school officials to keep them in. Three students are still in high school -- one at Cardozo.
Fifty-five are working, in jobs that include firefighter, carpet cleaner and parking attendant, but the vast majority are earning just about the minimum wage. Eighteen are unemployed.
Three students in the group are dead -- one from natural causes, one was fatally beaten by her boyfriend and the third was the victim of a distressingly common urban scenario. He was shot 19 times in a drive-by, his killer never found. One young man is in jail, awaiting trial on charges of armed robbery.
But other students proudly reported their successes. They described digging for every opportunity they could find at Cardozo or elsewhere, graduating and making their way to college. Seventy-eight of the 127 students The Post contacted graduated from high school and 39 of those surveyed are attending a trade school or college, many at the University of the District of Columbia and other nearby institutions. -
Yeah, that is distressing. But the lax academic standards aren't just typical of black, urban schools, it's EVERYWHERE. I was shocked when I went to college and found that the majority of students weren't anywhere near as prepared as I was for college work, and I went to a public high school. And this was twenty years ago. It seems to me that standards have only dropped since then.
It seems that the only place where one can get a decent public education is in a suburb where the majority of the populace is college-educated, there is a significant tax base, and parents demand college prepatory level courses for their children.
Most of the iniquities of the current public education system is that schools are funded by property taxes. If you live in a poor area, there is no tax base, thus cruddy and deteriorating schools. There has to be a different way of funding education that is more equitable. -
lilbangladesh wrote:
If only the system were calling out dumb rich white kids who are just there because they are rich/connected . . .
Also, here's the downside of affirmative action: (And I say this as a fan of affirmative action. I want to fine-tune it, not eliminate it.) I know many talented minorities of whom it was assumed that they were there ONLY because of affirmative action. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the assumption of those professors who discriminated against you.
I just think it would be hard for anyone to say, "Well, you only got in because you were POOR."
even on this thread, discussion gets pulled back to
color = low income = bad education.
Alaf, bummer to hear about that sh*t at Wellesley just 10 years ago - which is not so long ago, and waaaaay after their flippin' consciousness should have been raised. -
pitu wrote: [quote=lilbangladesh]
If only the system were calling out dumb rich white kids who are just there because they are rich/connected . . .
Also, here's the downside of affirmative action: (And I say this as a fan of affirmative action. I want to fine-tune it, not eliminate it.) I know many talented minorities of whom it was assumed that they were there ONLY because of affirmative action. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the assumption of those professors who discriminated against you.
I just think it would be hard for anyone to say, "Well, you only got in because you were POOR."
even on this thread, discussion gets pulled back to
color = low income = bad education.
Alaf, bummer to hear about that sh*t at Wellesley just 10 years ago - which is not so long ago, and waaaaay after their flippin' consciousness should have been raised.
Yea, there are some problems and downsides to affirmative action that play out IF the persons are not prepared. I remember this study done some time ago on that:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB109960753547665313.htmlCritics Assail
I wish that the true goal of such programs would be to bring up the test scores, qualifications and education level of those who are not receiving the same opportunities instead of the emphasis on "placement". it would be great if black students and other non-white students were scoring higher on their SATs, entrance exams, math exams to begin with...
Study of Race,
Law Students
By JOHN HECHINGER
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
November 5, 2004
A new study that's raising controversy in law-school circles questions whether admissions preferences for black students help them or, ironically, set them back in their careers.
Research by a respected law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, asserts that blacks who benefit from affirmative action are being admitted to law schools where they find themselves in over their heads, achieving lower grades and failing the bar exam in higher numbers than they would have without the preferences.
The research by Prof. Richard H. Sander, scheduled for publication in this month's Stanford Law Review, turns traditional critiques of affirmative action on their heads. It already is under assault.
Some critics say the study dramatically understates the positive impact of affirmative action on black law students. Based on the same data the study used, Richard Lempert, a professor of law and sociology at the University of Michigan, argues that eliminating affirmative action in law-school admissions would reduce the number of black attorneys by at least a quarter....
Newsflash: Rich, dumb Korean Kids are advancing with their connections,and Rich, dumb, French kids with connections are advancing with their connections, etc. etc. etc. White people own the majority of property, capital, companies, schools and private industry in America. They are the majority population. black people, as one example, are 13% of the population.
Also, NY, NJ and DC spend a lot per pupil on schools (urban schools usually do for a number of reasons). It isn't just about money.
Look at who our President is for Christ sake!!
He didn't get there on brains (his grades at Yale were better than Kerry's though....)
So what is the true answer(s) to getting the other groups in on the "action"? -
Well, yeah, so much of power and success is based on networking and who you know, and rich kids are already connected so they don't HAVE to be smart.
And it is incredibly hard to break into those circles. People can be real stingy if they think you're not from the right class. My ex-fiance had all the connections and even though we dated for two years, he didn't introduce me to anyone except his dumbshit deadbeat friend who felt me up at a party when I was doped up on cold medicine. And who was dumb enough to get out-argued by a robot.
He knew all the movers and shakers of society and I got stuck with someone from the wrong end of the gene pool. -
i'm sure AA has something to do with it.
this is a quote from a article:
Collectively, more Asian American college and university students are experiencing obstacles to academic success in U.S. higher education than in the past, according to a new UCLA report.
http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/counter-to-popular-belief-majority-39558.aspx -
Well, they're having more obstacles, not because of affirmative action, but because they are poor, and less likely to speak English as a first language. The fact is, having to work to pay for school is a good way to make school really really tough.
This wasn't a "how affirmative action screws over Asians" story.
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