(SPLIT)Do Jewish groups get special treatment from the NYPD?

Just because the guy uses a Hasid as an avatar doesn't necessarily mean he *is* a Hasid! Just FYI.

As to your questions: Synagogues and mosques ALL got beefed up security during the holidays (because Ramadan fell on the same time as the High Holdiays). The Lubavitchers were not getting special treatment here.

Dunno about the jumpers. I'm not privy to the community so this is one area that I can't comment. The only thing I can say is that since Kingston and Eastern Parkway is where the World Lubavitcher Headquarters are, many young men from around the world come here to study. Often they are worlds away from their families. Perhaps that's too stressful... ?

And just because they are Lubavitchers doesn't mean that adolescents don't rebel in their own way. However, I just don't get why any Orthodox Jew would take up smoking. You can't smoke on Shabbat (lighting a fire of any kind is one of the forbidden acts) so you would spend the entire day jonesing for a cigarette. That's got to be a miserable way to spend Shabbat, which is supposed to be about rest and enjoyment.

daver wrote: [quote=Anonymous]1. How did the Lubavichers manage to get all that darn police protection during their Holidays recently past? There were no less than 12 cars on duty during that time, as they all did roll call down the block every night.
2. Why are they jumping in front of trains all of a sudden?
3. Why are those kids smoking and drinking so young? You should have seen them going to thier post on Prospect, always bumming me for cigarettes and trying to get me to buy them beers.
Whats going on over there?

I'm not Jewish, but I do have a couple comments.
#1 There were WAY more police in the area for the Caribbean parade, so I'm not sure what your issue is.
#2 People of all faiths jump in front of trains. The vast majority are not Jewish.
#3 In proportion to their population, I see this far less in the Jewish community than the general population.

1. You cannot compare the caribbean parade with the recent Holidays in question. The caribbean parade it is anticipated in the hundreds of thousands. I do not have an issue, nor am trying to make an issue. Just a question about the un-usual security that was provided.
Am I the only one who would think that a police car posted on every corner from Eastern Parkway to Atlantic Avenue, on Kingston and Brooklyn Avenues, with the emergency lights on, all day, is out of order. Am I the only one who thinks that it is out of order when you ask one of the cops why they are there and they tell you, and I quote. "Get the F out of here before you get in trouble." There was nothing out of the ordinary about me or my polite query to solicit such a response.

2. You are correct, people of all faiths jump in front of trains. However, all faiths do not have the power to keep such information as to why millions of people are inconvenienced. When one does, it becomes questionable.

3. Again, you are making a comparison that I did not infer. From my what I have seen with my own eyes, I think they have a problem, considering the rules of their faith. You are correct however, they suffer the same maladies as most everyone.

Please refer to the comments to this http://crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=8140 and draw your own conclusion.

I have no issues, nor am trying to create one. I highly respect the community across the parkway. They are an organized, tight knit group with a goal. I do not agree with their methods or what is presently going on over here, but it is what it is. I just had these questions for KWOC, since he seemed to be knowledgable.

This is my second time posting a response, in the same manner as this one. I did not however post it under an account, I forgot the password and was lazy. Maybe this wont get deleted, like the last one.

People, if we cannot discuss issues that may have racial overtones like adults, then we are still children. We all need to do some growing, as there are forces out there that will destroy us all if we don't.

Thank you for your time.

Am I the only one who would think that a police car posted on every corner from Eastern Parkway to Atlantic Avenue, on Kingston and Brooklyn Avenues, with the emergency lights on, all day, is out of order. Am I the only one who thinks that it is out of order when you ask one of the cops why they are there and they tell you, and I quote. "Get the F out of here before you get in trouble." There was nothing out of the ordinary about me or my polite query to solicit such a response.

I'm not sure this was a result of the holidays. Its been discussed on this board before that this is the Brooklyn version of the Manhattan surge anti-terrorism activity. In Manhattan it takes the form of twenty to thirty cars converging one location in a show of force. It happens frequently at Times Square and Columbus Circle. In Brooklyn they only do that type of "surge" at Grand Army Plaza. The other version of this is police cars parked on every corner of the north to south streets from Atlantic to Eastern Parkway. It has already occured on Frankin and Nostrand (possibly Washington as well, I can't remember). While it may have been planned in conjunction with the holiday, it is not limited to the protection for the lubavitch.

ETA: Links
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4845&highlight=&sid=853cdbdc64e2b4351b788846a6daf496
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32869&view=previous&sid=f9484319ecc0776d5f63aed6680c6cdb

I lived in Boro Park for quite some time and I have to tell you that I agree with mantic. I have seen the Orthodox Community get special treatment from the NYPD.

I have seen officers try to give Orthodox men parking tickets on a Friday afternoon only to see the man jump in his car while yelling to the officer Its Shabbos (sp?) I must get home! And the officer get back in his car and drive off.
There was another incident in which an Orthodox man was having his car towed by the Sheriff or NYPD and about 50-60 Orthodox men swarmed them and would not let them tow his car.
I think when the Rebbi was alive he had a police escort (flashing lights, etc.) every week when he went to cemetery.

King without a crown wrote: Can we get back to the topic of serving Liquor to the community? Start an Anti-Jew thread if you'd like to discuss this further.

Please point it out to me - I am not being snarky but I do not see any Anti-jew sentiments.

MOD NOTE: per request, this has been split out into a separate topic. if you think this is 'over-moderating' please feel free to discuss that issue in the ASK BROOKLYNIAN forum. if you want to talk about liquor licenses, please go to the fleming banquet hall thread.

thanks
-MOD

forever living in brooklyn. yes as a whole. to the title of the post.

stacey wrote: [quote=sweet tea]the only anti- i see is a suggestion of unfair treatment by the police. if anything, IMHO, that's anti-PD or anti-corruption, not anti-jew.

That was what I meant by my post - I didn't want it to come out anti-Jew I wanted it to come out anti-preferential treatment.

My brother is a past president of the NYPD's Shomrim Society and when I would tell him about this he would just tell me "don't open that can of worms" Im sorry if I offended anyone I just wanted to share my personal observations from living in an Orthodox community

stacey wrote: I lived in Boro Park for quite some time and I have to tell you that I agree with mantic. I have seen the Orthodox Community get special treatment from the NYPD.

I have seen officers try to give Orthodox men parking tickets on a Friday afternoon only to see the man jump in his car while yelling to the officer Its Shabbos (sp?) I must get home! And the officer get back in his car and drive off.
There was another incident in which an Orthodox man was having his car towed by the Sheriff or NYPD and about 50-60 Orthodox men swarmed them and would not let them tow his car.
I think when the Rebbi was alive he had a police escort (flashing lights, etc.) every week when he went to cemetery.

Back to your original point, Stacey . . .
I too am not "anti-Jew" and in my experience of living in Williamsburg next to the Orthodox community there it was VERY clear that the Orthodox community received special treatment from the NYPD. They were very vocal and very organized and very likely to get a crowd of men to yell outside the precinct.
And very likely to run red lights all the damn time without repercussion.

I would imagine that any group that would swarm a police officer trying to write a ticket or a precinct would tend to be treated with kid's gloves.

That isn't preferential treatment so much as self-preservation.

lilbangladesh wrote: I would imagine that any group that would swarm a police officer trying to write a ticket or a precinct would tend to be treated with kid's gloves.

I would not imagine that at all.
Other groups get arrested for that behavior, and possibly their heads busted, or their bikes confiscated or [fill in the blank]

Thank you for you sincere and honest answers. Please allow me to retort.

King without a crown wrote: Whoever said I was in the "know"?

I did. I said you appear to be in the know.

I Have no idea why 2 people killed themselves at the Kingston ave train station, nor do I know there religious background.

That answers that for me, thank you.

As for Jews getting more Police protection, maybe its because they get constantly attacked for being Jewish. IE: getting beatin up,killed, bottles thrown at them, tires slashed on their ambulances. to name just a few.Honestly as annoying as some might be, I never see them begging for money, cleaning my windshield, robbing people,randomly beating up people.

Beaten up and killed, the cops do that to us all the time, you don't see us complaining, that much. I don't know who killing them right now but themselves.
'Beggin' for money, any time I go to Weinstien's Hardware, I pass a few. You got the windshield thing, and I haven't heard of them beating up anybody or murdering any one in a good long while, so there's a gold star for that. Robbing people. On a much grander scale than nickle and dime.

'Tires slashed on their ambulances.' We don't have any. Maybe it is the Ghost of Gavin, who was refused medical attention by those same ambulances. That was the spark that lit that inferno long ago, nothing more, nothing less. I really can't answer who or why they are messing with the ambulances.

As for constantly being attacked because their jewish, I get the same thing because I'm black.

Now I would imagine since the Jewish community is so tightly knit, with that, comes POLITICAL INFLUENCE. So basically in a nutshell, the people that vote, get special treatment.

No contest.

If you care about them smoking and drinking and bumming your cigarettes, take off your Stop Snitchin Tee shirt for 1 min and go tell their parents.

Your a funny guy, imagine me, a 6 foot black man, dragging some jewish kid home against his will to inform his parents he is smoking cigarettes and trying to get beer. They'd have Shomrin in my a** with the quickness.

If you're looking for an explanation as to why they Drink and smoke at such a young age, I'm sure its quite similar to the reasons kids from other ethnic groups do those things.
What if I substituted the word Black in your earlier questions, how would this sound to you?
1. How did the Blacks manage to get all that darn police protection during their Holidays recently past? There were no less than 12 cars on duty during that time, as they all did roll call down the block every night.
2. Why are Blacks jumping in front of trains all of a sudden?
3. Why are those Black kids smoking and drinking so young? You should have seen them going to thier post on Prospect, always bumming me for cigarettes and trying to get me to buy them beers.

Would soud like you were asking me the questions... I'll answer, if you like.
1. Well, if you noticed any extra police during the holiday's it was probably some sort of sting operation to round up, photograph and print all the kids 'who fit the description' for the files.
2. I didn't notice they were, didn't hear anything about it in the news.
3. Some say it is racial oppression, some say depression, some say because they are black and don't know better. I think it because it is just easily available. Your call is as good as mine, and I concur, the poison knows no color or religions lines.

Sounds pretty silly and Racist right? So now you know why I called it an Anti-Jew thread

Would only sound racist to a racist person, which I am not. Sounds like questions to me. So you now know why I call you silly, rabbit.
Tricks are for kids. Time is running out for all of us. So lets all play in the sandbox nice.

lilbangladesh wrote: You may not consider yourself racist, but what you are saying *sounds* racist.

In other words, it's not what you're saying that is so problematic, but how you're saying it.

Actually, I know quite a few Jewish parents who would be GRATEFUL to get a report on their kid's activities, no matter what the source. The only thing is, when you do report these kids to their parents, in a cross-cultural situation, you have to exhibit some sensitivity.

When I know the parents of black kids who are causing problems, I let them know what's going on. But I don't say, "Look what a bad kid Johnny is, smoking and drinking!" I think that would offend ANY parent regardless of cultural background. If you said, "Do you realize that Johnny has been smoking and drinking behind your back?", they would probably be pretty grateful for the info.

I understand your point, but this goes back to my original statement.
You say tom-ay-toes, I say tom-ah-toes. It is all dependant of the individuals interpretation. If such interpretation is biased or 'spun' to fit the individuals needs, one gets the desired outcome.

I do have a personality issue with being to blunt, so I am told. Sorry the words were not put into a more pleasant context.

I might add that, from my experience, when a person of one race makes any statements that may have negative intonations against another racial group, it usually interpreted as a racist statement. We all seriously need to grow up fast. So that we may be able to have these kinds of conversations with the interest of the betterment of all. Put aside all this and really and truly work together to save our souls.

Now to give you reason to call me lunatic.

"Cannot swords be turned to plowshares? Can we and all nations not live in peace? In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?"
Ronald Reagan Address to United Nations General Assembly, (1987-09-21)

There is a lot of things going on that most of you are simply not aware of. Things like us trying to find reason to bicker amongst ourselves of such trivial matters such as this are meaningless once aware. I am not a racist, but I may make statements that may 'sound' so in the interest of bringing such awareness. In the big picture, we're wasting time and energy finding reason to hate, when all we need is love. My job is to bring about such awareness, and if you are interested in what I can show you, contact me. I only ask that you have a completely open and unbiased mind.

What Hamilton said.

Basically, working off *perceptions* rather than actual facts about one group being favored over another is a pretty racist thing to do. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you may not realize that that's what you are doing here. But really, it's offensive.

The only way this conversation could be at all productive is to work from published facts to PROVE your assertion that one group is being favored over another. Otherwise, you are working from perceptions and prejudice. You say Jews are being favored by the police. I don't see this and present you with facts showing that it is not so (as in police protection was stepped up for ALL Jews AND Muslims during the recent holidays [and aren't a lot of Muslims, especially in this community, black?] and that this has been a citywide policy since 2001), which facts you promptly disregard.

If you want to prove your point, find undisputable sources to prove your point, because while truth is a good thing, the last thing we need in this community is distrust caused by misperceptions. All you have given us is anecdotes from personal experience. I'm not saying that your personal experiences aren't valid, but just that they are limited and don't give you a good view of the whole. So you dealt with a few rude cops who felt like they didn't have to answer your questions. Does this really prove bias?

I think not.

Let me first say that I don't believe Hasidic Jews are all Jews and so if someone says that the Hasidic community is receiving preferential treatment that doesn't mean they are saying that ALL JEWS are receiving preferential treatment.

I offer up this as one example of differential treatment.

http://life-of-rubin.blogspot.com/2006/04/boro-park-riots-tickets-youre-upset.html


I also see folks writing that the arab communities are receiving the same amount of police "protection" as hasidic communities during their holidays and I don't believe that it's true not from what I see in Williamsburg. Just today I saw what was the equivalent of a "Block Party" on one of the side streets of Lee ave with a squad car with the lights flashing blocking entry into the block and I don't see that happening in other communities. No it could be I don't get around much, but I also think that a lot of people are aware that there is preferential treatment but are afraid to indicate such for fear of being labled "anti-semetic" or a "Jew hater" even though they are talking about a particular group of Jews.