(SPLIT)Do Jewish groups get special treatment from the NYPD?
Comments
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Bangadesh(pardon the *ack of *'s) you've backed me up on other threads. I appreciate that. But where are you when the organizing is going on? If you use that invocation/ it might be a good idea to fo**ow it to its end.
In any case/ I think it's pretty use*ess to rai* against the Hassidic community. They have c*ear*y got their act together. And so what if they're shown preferentia* treatment? It didn't come out of nothing. They have their own very organized po*cing team. They demand protection and they get it. Good for them. Maybe what we need to do is agitate/agitate/agitate. But in order to agitate for po*ice presence we need to be united about what we want po*iced and why. The Hassidic community seems to have that bit together.
We can't very we** sit around and gripe about *ack of po*ice protection if we don't know what we want po*iced. Oh dear. I sense a KWAC bait in that *ast statement. I didn't mean to/ KWAC/ rea**y I didn't. -
Lucille, you are fucking killing me with the l's, until you fix it, here are a couple tricks for you:
hold down ALT + 108 (on number pad) = l
hold down ALT + 76 (on number pad) = L
hold down ALT + 44 (on number pad) = ,
Not that it isn't entertaining, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Or something. Good luck with the keyboard.
Back to your regularly scheduled messages here, nothing to see, move along. -
I think you've had ample time to either fix your keyboard or replace it. How do you expect fellow Brooklynians to take your posts seriously. Please get your act your together already!
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I wasn't railing against the Hasidic community. Please read for content, Lucille. And I would rather not attract the attention of a certain poster whose only method of debate is personal attack because that is getting beyond tiresome.
I really don't think the Hasidim get treated any better than the rest of us. The only difference is that they expect to be treated better (to the point of not getting tickets for flagrant violations) and get royally pissed off when they don't.
The impression I get is that policing in Crown Heights leaves much to be desired and that ALL communities are suffering as a result.
The only reason why I am posting in this thread is an attempt to dispel misperceptions because we really don't need to be hating on each other. -
MOD NOTE
Please do not turn this thread into a circle of personal sniping. There has been plenty of that already. It is tiresome and pointless.
If you think this note might possibly apply to you, then it does. -
daver wrote: Lucille, you are fucking killing me with the l's, until you fix it, here are a couple tricks for you:
Or just copy an 'l' from a post by someone with a functional keyboard (or anywhere else) and hit ctrl-v anytime you need 'l'. He11 even typing a '1' when you mean 'l' would be better (and fewer keystrokes) than the *'s.
hold down ALT + 108 (on number pad) = l
hold down ALT + 76 (on number pad) = L
hold down ALT + 44 (on number pad) = ,
Not that it isn't entertaining, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Or something. Good luck with the keyboard.
Back to your regularly scheduled messages here, nothing to see, move along. -
ricorn wrote: Or just copy an 'l' from a post by someone with a functional keyboard (or anywhere else) and hit ctrl-v anytime you need 'l'. He11 even typing a '1' when you mean 'l' would be better (and fewer keystrokes) than the *'s.
CTRL+c = copy
CTRL+v = paste
Typically. Just highlight it. -
daver wrote: [quote=ricorn]Or just copy an 'l' from a post by someone with a functional keyboard (or anywhere else) and hit ctrl-v anytime you need 'l'. He11 even typing a '1' when you mean 'l' would be better (and fewer keystrokes) than the *'s.
CTRL+c = copy
CTRL+v = paste
Typically. Just highlight it.
I meant to convey the following:
Step 1: copy (using whatever method you like best; if you don't know how to copy, go get a job at the brooklyn impound yard where they still use typewriters)
Step 2: type until 'l' is needed
Step 3: hit ctrl-v (ctrl-v is mentioned explicitly here as it is faster than other pasting methods because, if you're typing, presumably your hands are already on the keyboard)
Step 4: goto step 2
Did my text convey something else? -
Subject: police
mantic wrote: [quote=daver][quote=Anonymous]1. How did the Lubavichers manage to get all that darn police protection during their Holidays recently past? There were no less than 12 cars on duty during that time, as they all did roll call down the block every night.
I'm not Jewish, but I do have a couple comments.
2. Why are they jumping in front of trains all of a sudden?
3. Why are those kids smoking and drinking so young? You should have seen them going to thier post on Prospect, always bumming me for cigarettes and trying to get me to buy them beers.
Whats going on over there?
#1 There were WAY more police in the area for the Caribbean parade, so I'm not sure what your issue is.
#2 People of all faiths jump in front of trains. The vast majority are not Jewish.
#3 In proportion to their population, I see this far less in the Jewish community than the general population.
1. You cannot compare the caribbean parade with the recent Holidays in question. The caribbean parade it is anticipated in the hundreds of thousands. I do not have an issue, nor am trying to make an issue. Just a question about the un-usual security that was provided.
Am I the only one who would think that a police car posted on every corner from Eastern Parkway to Atlantic Avenue, on Kingston and Brooklyn Avenues, with the emergency lights on, all day, is out of order. Am I the only one who thinks that it is out of order when you ask one of the cops why they are there and they tell you, and I quote. "Get the F out of here before you get in trouble." There was nothing out of the ordinary about me or my polite query to solicit such a response.
2. You are correct, people of all faiths jump in front of trains. However, all faiths do not have the power to keep such information as to why millions of people are inconvenienced. When one does, it becomes questionable.
3. Again, you are making a comparison that I did not infer. From my what I have seen with my own eyes, I think they have a problem, considering the rules of their faith. You are correct however, they suffer the same maladies as most everyone.
Please refer to the comments to this http://crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=8140 and draw your own conclusion.
I have no issues, nor am trying to create one. I highly respect the community across the parkway. They are an organized, tight knit group with a goal. I do not agree with their methods or what is presently going on over here, but it is what it is. I just had these questions for KWOC, since he seemed to be knowledgable.
This is my second time posting a response, in the same manner as this one. I did not however post it under an account, I forgot the password and was lazy. Maybe this wont get deleted, like the last one.
People, if we cannot discuss issues that may have racial overtones like adults, then we are still children. We all need to do some growing, as there are forces out there that will destroy us all if we don't.
Thank you for your time.The police was there to protect them. But as for the Labor day Parade, they were there to watch us. Shoot us or beat us down.. You cannot compare the two at all. -
ricorn wrote: [quote=daver][quote=ricorn]Or just copy an 'l' from a post by someone with a functional keyboard (or anywhere else) and hit ctrl-v anytime you need 'l'. He11 even typing a '1' when you mean 'l' would be better (and fewer keystrokes) than the *'s.
CTRL+c = copy
CTRL+v = paste
Typically. Just highlight it.
I meant to convey the following:
Step 1: copy (using whatever method you like best; if you don't know how to copy, go get a job at the brooklyn impound yard where they still use typewriters)
Step 2: type until 'l' is needed
Step 3: hit ctrl-v (ctrl-v is mentioned explicitly here as it is faster than other pasting methods because, if you're typing, presumably your hands are already on the keyboard)
Step 4: goto step 2
Did my text convey something else?
Nope, I'm just offering the keys explicitly because I'm guessing that perhaps she doesn't know how. Because, uh, otherwise she would probably already be doing it. Plenty of folks don't know these things, no big deal. -
daver wrote: [quote=ricorn][quote=daver][quote=ricorn]Or just copy an 'l' from a post by someone with a functional keyboard (or anywhere else) and hit ctrl-v anytime you need 'l'. He11 even typing a '1' when you mean 'l' would be better (and fewer keystrokes) than the *'s.
CTRL+c = copy
CTRL+v = paste
Typically. Just highlight it.
I meant to convey the following:
Step 1: copy (using whatever method you like best; if you don't know how to copy, go get a job at the brooklyn impound yard where they still use typewriters)
Step 2: type until 'l' is needed
Step 3: hit ctrl-v (ctrl-v is mentioned explicitly here as it is faster than other pasting methods because, if you're typing, presumably your hands are already on the keyboard)
Step 4: goto step 2
Did my text convey something else?
Nope, I'm just offering the keys explicitly because I'm guessing that perhaps she doesn't know how. Because, uh, otherwise she would probably already be doing it. Plenty of folks don't know these things, no big deal.
I give her more credit. She's was able to find this board. And, it's not like Windows comes with a brooklynian.com icon. She writes posts that aren't in all caps and would be reasonably coherent if she had a working keyboard. She's written 70-ish of these posts. I'm betting someone like this is familiar enough with computers to have encountered cut-n-paste. It just doesn't often occur to people to cut-n-paste a single letter because most times, it's easier just to press that key. -
I'm sure I'll get reamed for saying this but it's just an opinion. The "protest" in 2006 by members of the Hasidic community in Borough Park? What do you think would have happened if the "protesters" were black or hispanic? For one, it wouldn't have been called a protest. And a hell of alot more people would have been arrested.
http://www.crownheights.info/?itemid=1922
http://tinyurl.com/25c5z7 -
caseopele wrote: I'm sure I'll get reamed for saying this but it's just an opinion. The "protest" in 2006 by members of the Hasidic community in Borough Park? What do you think would have happened if the "protesters" were black or hispanic? For one, it wouldn't have been called a protest. And a hell of alot more people would have been arrested.
And they made the cops formally apologize for cursing...
http://www.crownheights.info/?itemid=1922
http://tinyurl.com/25c5z7Police Chief Apologizes for Remarks During Brooklyn Protest
The police have said that Chief Esposito acknowledged that while trying to bring the crowd under control, he cursed. The chief's profanities, the police said, were directed at other police officers, not the people in the community. Mayor Bloomberg said yesterday that the use of inappropriate language by Chief Esposito's or any other officer would be reviewed by the Civilian Complaint Review Board, an independent agency that investigates complaints against the police, including those about inappropriate language.
"But here, where you have police cars being burned, and police officers being assaulted, there are only a handful of arrests," he added.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/07/nyregion/07protest.html -
Well, more than one source, including Jewish ones, referred to what happened in Borough Park as a riot.
The one thing I noticed was that the rioters backed off and down when the police came en masse. That probably had a lot to do with the supposedly more genteel treatment.
And the cops should apologize for cursing. It's never appropriate and it's unprofessional, no matter who they're arresting. -
lilbangladesh wrote: Well, more than one source, including Jewish ones, referred to what happened in Borough Park as a riot.
There is nothing I disagree with there, except perhaps that word "supposedly". And yet I see caseopele's point.
The one thing I noticed was that the rioters backed off and down when the police came en masse. That probably had a lot to do with the supposedly more genteel treatment.
And the cops should apologize for cursing. It's never appropriate and it's unprofessional, no matter who they're arresting.
*shrug*
I have no horse in this race, but the field is interesting.
Compare and contrast this to, say, the lawyer arrested a few months back in Crown Heights after interfering with a physical arrest.
Ultimately, however, my feeling is that though this is interesting, I would prefer to see each instance taken on its own merits and NOT compared against other instances. I would prefer to see unity in dealing with these problems as opposed to a splintering of the community along the lines of "little Johnny gets more cookies than me", if you get my drift. Which isn't to say that this isn't a valid complaint, but rather that it perhaps isn't the one that I would choose to go to the wall on. -
lilbangladesh wrote: What Hamilton said.
Just take a look at the city's calendar of Holiday's. Who has the largest number?
If you want to prove your point, find undisputable sources to prove your point, because while truth is a good thing, the last thing we need in this community is distrust caused by misperceptions. All you have given us is anecdotes from personal experience. I'm not saying that your personal experiences aren't valid, but just that they are limited and don't give you a good view of the whole. So you dealt with a few rude cops who felt like they didn't have to answer your questions. Does this really prove bias?
I think not.
What have we established in this thread thus far relating to the Jewish Community vs all else.
They do have the outward appearance of preferential treatment and have expect such. This is allegedly due to the organization of the community as a whole, which therefor makes demands that they oft times receive.
In my first posts in this thread, I believe I made it known that I hold nothing against 'them' and do highly respect them for the quality listed above, but I reserve my right not to like some of the methods that they use. Yet, I am alluded to being racist.
I would like to impose upon you this thought. Those who cannot truly freely speak of issues relating to race with a clear an unbiased mind are racist. I myself at times, find myself falling into that trap. I am, however, aware, and make every effort to 'make a correction'. It is hard to break the training of the false education on these matters. An education that we all are un-willing students of. We are subjected to it every day via any form of media, religion and politics. The subliminal over tones in advertising, the biased reporting of the news etc.
Throw all of it out and look at people as people, not as a jew, a black, a white, etc. All our blood is same color. Realize that we have been trained to hate each other and you will be on a true path of awareness. -
Well, the reason why the Jews have more holidays is, well, we have more holidays. It really isn't a conspiracy. The reason why they are on the city calendar is because Jews make a large minority of the city workforce and since most of these holidays mandate the cessation of work, it is really pointless to try to conduct city business on those days. That's why opposite side of the street parking is suspended on those days. However, it is ALSO suspended on major Christian and Muslim holidays as well. I think the city really does try to be equitable. It just doesn't always succeed.
If the Jews, particularly the Hasidim, were getting such preferential treatment (I will grant you that they expect it; I don't see them actually getting it), this city would SHUT DOWN on shabbat like Israel does, because that is what the Hasidim would prefer. In Israel, the Hasidim get special treatment (causing a lot of resentment, because their children don't even serve in the army and many Hasidim refuse to acknowledge the modern state of Israel); here, not so much. They get consideration, not special treatment.
Daver has it exactly right. -
mantic wrote: [quote=lilbangladesh]What Hamilton said.
Just take a look at the city's calendar of Holiday's. Who has the largest number?
If you want to prove your point, find undisputable sources to prove your point, because while truth is a good thing, the last thing we need in this community is distrust caused by misperceptions. All you have given us is anecdotes from personal experience. I'm not saying that your personal experiences aren't valid, but just that they are limited and don't give you a good view of the whole. So you dealt with a few rude cops who felt like they didn't have to answer your questions. Does this really prove bias?
I think not.
What have we established in this thread thus far relating to the Jewish Community vs all else.
They do have the outward appearance of preferential treatment and have expect such. This is allegedly due to the organization of the community as a whole, which therefor makes demands that they oft times receive.
In my first posts in this thread, I believe I made it known that I hold nothing against 'them' and do highly respect them for the quality listed above, but I reserve my right not to like some of the methods that they use. Yet, I am alluded to being racist.
I would like to impose upon you this thought. Those who cannot truly freely speak of issues relating to race with a clear an unbiased mind are racist. I myself at times, find myself falling into that trap. I am, however, aware, and make every effort to 'make a correction'. It is hard to break the training of the false education on these matters. An education that we all are un-willing students of. We are subjected to it every day via any form of media, religion and politics. The subliminal over tones in advertising, the biased reporting of the news etc.
Throw all of it out and look at people as people, not as a jew, a black, a white, etc. All our blood is same color. Realize that we have been trained to hate each other and you will be on a true path of awareness.
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The quote Hamilton says are not my words , my response to this edited statement can be seen on Sun Oct 21 9:26 PM -
Daver
nothing happens when i ho1d down the keys you say to ho1d down. Sad1y. It's a 1aptop I'm dea1ing with. Rep1acing the keyboard isn't an option. Do I ho1d A1T and then type in the numbers you've given and simp1y re1ease the key? I don't get it. Nothing happens when I do that and nothing happens when I do that then press the "enter" key either. As for cutting and pasting/ I know how to do that/ but it's far more tiresome than hitting a substitute key on my typepad.
!i1bang1adesh--
I think you misinterpreted my ear1iear posting entire1y. It wasn't directed at you and it was trying to make the same point that you make that it isn't a11 a grand conspiracy so much as a ref1ection of organization in the community. I thought that was pretty c1ear.
Even if it were a grand conspiracy/ that doesn't he1p so1ve the woes that be.
It's demanding a better and higher qua1ity po1ice force that wi11 make a difference. I be1ieve that the community getting behind higher starting sa1aries for officers might be the p1ace to start. At the same time/ I've encountered so many upstanding members of the community (organizers/preachers/reverands/ etc./ a11 of them African-American) who have been so poor1y treated by the po1ice over the course of so many years/ that getting them to ra11y behind higher sa1aries and better conditions for the NYPD does seem 1ike a rea1 cha11enge.
Thanks y'a11 for devoting so much time to my typing-cha11enged existence. the 1 key was genius. Now if I cou1d just figure out how to make the A!T key and the number pad thing work.... -
Hamilton: I wasn't quoting you.
I was just agreeing with you.
Sorry for being unclear. :oops: -
Just heard on CNN regarding noose incident in Hempstead that hanging a noose in NY is not considered a hate crime, but painting a swastika someplace is.
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Probably because in NY, there is little history of lynching.
That law can be changed though. -
It doesn't matter if there is little history of lynching in NY or not, there is little history of Nazi activity in NY also, but the symbolism is probably equivalent, yet only one act is considered to be a hate crime....
The black community definitely does not get the same treatment as the Jewish community, why? is a whole other debate, but there is no denying that ethnic groups in NY (and the country as a whole) get treated differently by the government.... i.e. Katrina vs. San Diego wildfires -
Where do you get your Mis-Information from? Theres been a rash of noose incidents reported in the last few weeks and they are all being investigated as Hate Crimes. Even the Dangling cable wire that was coiled up, so as not to get tangled from the LIRR on Nostrand and Atlantic is being investigated.
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Below is a segment from the CNN Special "The Noose: An American Nightmare". My mistake, painting a swastika is a felony, hanging a noose is not...
PHILLIPS: There are federal hate crime statutes, and nearly every state has its own hate crime laws. New York's law was recently changed, so it's now a felony to put a swastika on someone's property or to burn a cross in public view. Nooses were not added
Here is the link to the full transcript of the show: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711/01/siu.01.html
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/siu/the.noose/ -
well, that just seems to be an oversight then, not a deliberate snub to the black community.
"Cross burning, check. I think we're covered."
That stuff happens. In which case, if you really want to change the law, you probably won't run into stiff opposition. I doubt anyone is in favor of nooses. -
eberri wrote: It doesn't matter if there is little history of lynching in NY or not, there is little history of Nazi activity in NY also, but the symbolism is probably equivalent, yet only one act is considered to be a hate crime....
There is a history of lynching, just as there are active skinheads (nazi) in NY, don't get it twisted.
The black community definitely does not get the same treatment as the Jewish community, why? is a whole other debate, but there is no denying that ethnic groups in NY (and the country as a whole) get treated differently by the government.... i.e. Katrina vs. San Diego wildfires
Symbols only have value on them if we give them so. We have to learn to devalue them. It takes more precious energy and time to give credence to these things that to ignore them and keep it moving. The more we do that, the less value it has to those who present them upon us.
Don't use the wildfires as comparison to Katrina. That is the mindset they want to put us in. Katrina was a true natural disaster, transformed into a human tragedy. Something like that has not happened on that scale before.
The wildfires happen every year affording a lot of experience and equipment to deal with it. Only when they encroach on the wealthy, does it become news.
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