What kind of bike lane is on 9th Street and Court?

wirenut · October 2007

I passed 9th Street the other day between Court and Hamilton Ave.

There are new bicycle pavement markings in the middle of 9th Street on this block - No lines just the bicycle symbols

Can anyone tell me - as a motorist - what this is supposed to mean?

Is NYC DOT recommending that bike riders ride in the middle of the street here? Isn't that a little unorthodox?

I checked the NYS driver's manual and it does not even teach new drivers what these symbols mean.

anonymous · October 2007

Subject: ?

i am confused also

nomad · October 2007

I haven't actually seen the markings you're talking about - but are they these?:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/bike/shared.shtml

The text reads:
"SHARED LINE SIGNS & MARKINGS

New shared lane pavement markings and signs are being installed to make both cyclists and motorists aware that they have equal access to much of the City’s roadways.

Cyclists should ride assertively and over the markings, which place cyclists outside of the “door zone” of parked cars. Motorists should be patient and pass bikes only with ample clearance and at a modest speed."

Hmm.... wishful thinking that "Motorists should be patient.." etc.....!

daver · October 2007

Whoa, I thought they were doing real bike lanes on 9th St. I dunno. As far as the shared lane thing being unorthodox, it isn't at all. Bikes are already allowed to be in the "car" lane on all streets, the shared designation is there as a reminder.

lanciano · October 2007

5th avenue has these informal bike lanes too, beginning where the "official" bike lane ends around prospect pl ? (or garfield, not exactly sure) and extending to Bergen or so.

I think they just serve as a reminder that bikes use those particular streets often. It makes sense that they're putting them on 9th street since the bike lanes already exist from the Park on down to...5th ave? 4th ave? There probably are a lot of cyclists who will probably keep on going straight on 9th down to Hamilton etc.

I'd be interested in knowing why they elect not to put a full bike lane and just these awareness symbols instead. I'll have to do a bit more research to find out what the rationale is.

Also, it is true, that technically a bike is entitled to use the full lane of just as a car does. Although, I don't usually do this unless I have to get over to make a left turn.

wirenut · October 2007

Thanks for the replies.

When I said UNORTHODOX I meant that drivers have not been educated as to what these symbols mean, including myself and I've been driving for over 25 years

What good are the symbols if drivers don't know what they mean? I have noticed the bus stop shelter adds lately promoting bike safety; that helps but most drivers can't master the rules that ARE in the DMV book. Expecting compliance with stuff that is not in the DMV book is going to be a problem for you bikers.

More public education is needed. For example, you say bikers are already entitled to the entire traffic lane. This is news to me. Can you post the actual legal citation involved?

I believe you, but I would like written proof to show other drivers who - without proof - will tell me I'm crazy

daver · October 2007

wirenut wrote: More public education is needed. For example, you say bikers are already entitled to the entire traffic lane. This is news to me. Can you post the actual legal citation involved?

Er, let me start by saying that for a driver to say that in NYC really scares me. No offense.

Let us start with the informal citation by nomad above:

New shared lane pavement markings and signs are being installed to make both cyclists and motorists aware that they have equal access to much of the City’s roadways.

That quote is from nyc.gov.

For the actual law, find Article 34 Section 1231:

OPERATION OF BICYCLES ARTICLE 34
* Section 1231. Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles. Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this title, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to those provisions of this title which by their nature can have no application.

Further in the law, it details that a bicycle should use a USABLE path or lane, when one is available, other than for making left hand turns. It also states that a bicycle rider should ride on the right WHEN SAFE. It goes on to detail non-safe times: "Conditions to be taken into consideration include, but are not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or traffic lanes too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane." Basically, what it comes down to is that just about all riding in NYC qualifies you to take the entire lane at will, between parked cars, double parked cars, pedestrians, crappy roads, etc.

wirenut · October 2007

Thanks DAVER for the reference

You can feel safe knowing that in 27 years of driving I have never had or caused an accident with a bicyclist. I even look in the side mirror before opening the street side door.

I have always recognized bikers as fellow users of the road.

What I meant is that when I was taught (NYC Board of Education - Drivers Ed 1980) bikes were also users of the road but had to keep right. You were supposed to share the road. This was defined as bikers to the right and motorized vehicles to the left. Back then it was not considered appropriate for a biker to "take" the middle of a lane. It was considered dangerous. As a youth(18) I would never consider riding my bike in the middle of the street because it seemed obviously unsafe.

It appears that this "old school" thinking is evolving due to successful lobbying on the part of the bike community. I am fine with that.

However, I still believe that the majority of the drivers out there do not know of this changed / re-interpreted law. A few bus stop posters is not enough but it's a good start.

What kind of bike lane is on 9th Street and Court?

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