Respect between police and CH residents

King without a crown wrote: I love that I can purchase marijuana on almost every corner and at all times of the day!

unfortunately, i think this categorizes what many people's experience with the 77 is:
"crown heights sucks and whatever negative things you experience are your own damn fault for living here"

this is just one of the many things that needs to change in our community
and it is a simple thing to demand of the precinct:
that the men and women hired to serve our community respect both it and the people who live here.

I agree with KWAC. But I think that it goes both ways. NYPD are used to the frosty reaction and negativity -- so, when they begin interactions with anyone from criminals to yups (not that there is always a distinction) they come off rude. I don't think KWAC would assert that the police never do anything wrong. He's asking this...why aren't decent working people and cops allies...we don't need to overlook police corruption or brutality....but are we not natural allies? And yes, citizens contradict themselves---ask for new schools, roads, welfare and .... lower taxes.

Anyway...most people are unnecessarily hostile to police...for no reason....police sometimes the same...especially at large events where they are randomly stationed and are of no help because they are given no info by their superiors...or something.

Stop police brutality, corruption and Be nicer to your local policeman, they are your ally.

lilbangladesh wrote: KWAC has a long history of asserting that the police are right, no matter what, Guest. He refuses to acknowledge that police corruption and brutality exist and that any of us who've suffered because of said corruption and/or brutality must have deserved it somehow.

Long history? How long have you been here, a month? In any event, I disagree with your statement. There are three sides to every story - one side, the other side, and the truth. KWAC has a history of sharing a different perspective - one of someone in (or with close ties to) law enforcement. True, he probably said that you deserved the claimed 4-feet-off-the-ground neck dangling, but that's only because he obviously finds you annoying.

MOD NOTE: No personal attacks, please.

Anonymous wrote: He's asking this...why aren't decent working people and cops allies...we don't need to overlook police corruption or brutality....but are we not natural allies?

A big reason for this is lawmakers who make ridiculous laws that the police end up enforcing. A prime example is marijuana criminalization which forces a significant segment of the population, who would otherwise have no interest in illegal activity, to be at odds with the police. And, there's no gain for society. It's not like marijuana criminalization has ever stopped anyone who wanted to smoke from doing so. However it has probably stopped a guy with a dime bag in his pocket from sticking around the scene of a crime that's actually harmful to society and telling the cops what she knows. It's probably caused fear and resentment (OK, the marijuana itself might be responsible for a bit of the fear) of police in people who would otherwise want a cop on every corner. Sure, in any society there will need to be laws that some p eople don't like. And police enforcement of these laws might cause the police to be less than popular with these people. But, we don't need to go out of our way to create such situations. Especially when, as is the case with marijuana criminalization, even if the law actually worked, the benefit to society would be minimal at best.

johnife wrote: I love how NYPD personnel routinely refer to blacks as savages.
http://tinyurl.com/2hyvly

Hmm. Sixty-four examples of the term "savages" being used (according to the Google page you linked) out of 49,325 posts on that site. I didn't go through all 64 posts, but I did check out the first page of them...

The first "savages" reference is about Italian and Irish youth. Another was a clearly sarcastic comment about a pair of white hipster kids, and two more were about white criminals' behavior.

One reference is to a quote from a news story in which a victim of a racially-motivated crime -- NOT a cop -- uses the term.

One is from someone who appears to not be a cop complaining about the use of the word "savages" on the board

Only two of the 10 references on the first page of your Google link are about black people.

What we can do to improve NYPD/community relations: have more forums on community policing like was held last summer at the Baptist Church on NY Ave. Face to face is about 100x's better than blogging, (which is 1,000 x's better than nothing!) I would suggest that we all talk to the people at CB 8 who put that meeting together and see if we can host another one real soon. I believe the best person to speak with is Shalawn Langhorne. Last I knew, her email was [email protected]. She is co-chair of Law Enforcement committee.

I am on neither side of this debate since I have never had any problems with the police - and any interaction I've had with one in the city has always been quite pleasant and fair. I've also only been in this neighborhood a couple months.

However, I would love to see more law enforcement officials visiting these boards and several different opinions.

I do find it interesting and insightful the comments KWAC, as an officer, has made on these boards. Don't forget that lots of times he comes here freely giving information of events that happen in the neighborhood.

Form wrote: However, I would love to see more law enforcement officials visiting these boards and several different opinions.

I agree 100% - I'd love to hear from more cops on this board. Hell it'd be awesome if we could hear from a couple of dealers on this board (it's anonymous, right?) The dealer's could just begin every post with "Hypothetically speaking..., which hopefully is enough to keep them from having their posts used against them if charges do arise (perhaps a criminal lawyer can help with the specifics of what to say/not say).

I've had basically zero cop contact in the 8 years we've been (aside from warrant officers who rung my bell numerous early Saturday mornings looking for an earlier tenant). But I can see a bit of where KWAC is coming from.

Being no expert on police techniques, but I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that the members of the NYPD is not prescient and infallible. Years of endless TV, movies and reading make it seem that unless the criminal commits a crime directly in front of an officer or on videotape or drops his/her id at the scene, the cops are going to need the community's support to close the case. That's either voluntary/involuntary testimony or the use of reliable snitches. You dry up those sources of information and one of the few tools left them is to just basically bring in/harass anyone who looks at them sideways.

Nobody likes the latter, so understandably and rightly there's an uproar when a bunch of innocent civilians get hassled by the cops (and yes it's a hassle NYPD - you're just doing your job but no one likes being forced to answer a bunch of questions or frisked by armed men and women when they’re just trying to go about their law abiding lives).

I remember one of the other threads referred to the Marcy projects and how the gangs had taken over the courtyards and halls, there was a terrible body count, violence, etc. If none of the tenants are going to supply the police with actual names of the bad guys, then the only way to shut it down would be basically to arrest/harass every Black male in the vicinity and shake out the good ones. But who's going to stand for that? I wouldn't. So rather than face endless grief from civilians I imagine the police just sit back and wait for the more obvious and dumbest of criminals to screw up in a big obvious manner so that they can arrest and charge him with little community involvement.

So from one point of view it’s easy enough to see how that would look like the NYPD cares not one iota for the people of the Marcy Houses. And some of that belief and it’s atendant attitude is going to come right back the cops, which makes the cops all defensive and pissy, so when you ask them for directions you get attitude, and it’s just one big stupid circle of recrimination and stuff not getting done.

King without a crown wrote: 1) Officers are not required to live in the 5 Boroughs
2) Living in the Community does not neccesarily mean you can relate to the people any better.
3)Cops are not disgruntled because of the starting salary, its the Top pay thats in question.
4) Police may park Emergency vehicles on the sidewalk
5) Police officers may drive down the wrong way down a street
6) Police may also drive through red lights

You are correct that Police Officers are not above the Law and may not Harass and search people at random.

Actually, 4,5, and 6 are only conditionally true. They are only supposed to be allowed to do these things in an emergency, but many (I daresay most) cops take it as their right to do these things all the time for their own convenience rather than for some public good (4 and 6, at least).

this is posted in another thread, but I'm going to reiterate:

MOD NOTE: if you've posted on the CH board and referenced another user in the last 3 days, you may or may not be under warning of getting a time out. how to figure this out: did your post referencing another user employ sarcasm, name calling, or outright meanness? did you try to cover it up with flowery language, or emotional terminology? being an asshole doesn't just require outright asshattery - you can be that jerk that hides behind 4 syllable words. YOU ARE ALL WARNED!