Election 2008: So is Barrack Obama finished?
Comments
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the 2008 Nader Moment
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Nader_hints_at_an_announcement.htmlNader hints at an announcement
Ralph Nader's exploratory committee just emailed his list: that he'll be on Meet the Press Sunday. Wonder what he's gong to talk about.
From the email:
As you know, we've been exploring the possibilities in recent weeks.
And here's one question that keeps coming up:
What's been pulled off the table by the corporatized political machines in this momentous election year?
Answer:
Cutting the huge, bloated and wasteful military budget, adopting a single payer Canadian-style national health insurance system, impeaching Bush/Cheney, opposing nuclear power - among many others.
Who will pick up these issues and put them back on the table?
Hope you get a chance to tune in to watch Ralph Nader this Sunday on Meet the Press. -
criminy. not again.
i bet you can already guess what ward leader-nominee sweet tea thinks of that possibility. -
criminy. indeed
look. Barry can't silhouette properly in Photoshop
he's got a big old swath of white to the back of his head
i don't know if i can vote for such bad photoshop
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Q, ever occur to you that swath of white might actually be a
hee! -
if you woke up at 7a.m. with lilith's face staring down at you to let her out for a pee
and your groaned as you go find your shoes and the leash and a bag
your feet hit the hard floor and you both go out
and with your hair sticking straight up and out to the left
you go and make sure the pee is the right shade of yellow
and as you pick up the poop making sure it's of a good healthy consistency
and then you figure.. what the hey. i'm up already
might as well go get me a cup of coffee
and you make your coffee, add some half/half and you get to the cashier
and. then. you find you put on the pair of pants without any money
and barry seeing all this. he says to the cashier. "can you please put my friend's coffee on my bill"
and he tells you "don't worry. pay me back next time we meet"
barry would lend you $1.50 for a cup of coffee
hillary would yell at you to run back home and find the right pair of pants
barry would hold the door open
hillary would cut me in line -
hey! quit following me in the mornings, dude!
and by the way, my hair was sticking straight up and out to the RIGHT
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am i the only one watching the debate?
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Flexichick wrote: am i the only one watching the debate?
No, Barrack won.
But seriously, Clinton has some serious problems.
Even if she wins in any of these states, she must win by double digits to get any net gain on delegates. Otherwise, she does not get any net gain and he continues to be the favorite.
She wont's go away, of course.
Interestingly, Hillary supporters keep trying to talk about Obama's experience (he has more time in elected office than her) but he is running a national presidential campaign that is KICKING HER ASS.
You cannot complain about someone not being qualified, experienced or ready when they have kicked your "qualified" ass 11 times in a row.... It is beyond logical any way you slice it. You can say what you want, but he is, literally KICKING HER ASS.
That's like New England Patriots QB Tom Brady telling the NY Giants they aren't qualified to win the Superbowl: THEY KICKED HIS ASS.....end of story. -
actually, hillary can say she is MORE qualified than obama. doesnt mean she'll win, but she is more qualified.
just like the patriots were more qualified to win the super bowl. they got upset, but they are still the better team. -
mr. met wrote: actually, hillary can say she is MORE qualified than obama. doesnt mean she'll win, but she is more qualified.
thank you.
just like the patriots were more qualified to win the super bowl. they got upset, but they are still the better team. -
if this goes to the democratic convention undecided
i vote for obama and clinton to decide it with a touch football death match
the manning brothers can be quarterback -
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Just in time for St. Patty's Day...
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I love what it says, but I don't like that shade of green. Why couldn't they pick Kelly green like every other St Pat's Day shirt maker in America?
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alafairnadia wrote: [quote=mr. met]actually, hillary can say she is MORE qualified than obama. doesnt mean she'll win, but she is more qualified.
thank you.
just like the patriots were more qualified to win the super bowl. they got upset, but they are still the better team.
If you played competitive sports, you know that the better team always wins. More specifically, they find a way to win. The losing team ( 11 in a row, no less) cannot say they are "better" at this point. No NE Patriot today would say " We were better but lost". If they do, they will sound idiots...or sore losers.
Re: Experience: He has beaten, outmaneuvered, out-debated, outsmarted, out- organized, out fund raised the best American politicians the democrats have had to offer to compete against him. More specifically, HE KICKED THEIR ASS.All of their "experience and knowledge" couldn't slow his momentum. And he started with....NOTHING. No spouses last name, no time in the White House as a spouse, no big backers in the beginning. What does that say about the type of man, organizer and competitor he is?
Admittedly, there are other factors (help from the media) and the fight is far from over. I have said it before, I think Iraq is going to be a PROBLEM and not an asset for Obama should go against McCain. Although, I loved the exchange yesterday he had with McCain. ("I've got news for you..." LOL!) But the follow up question for Mr. Obama in the National Debate will be: NOW what, young man.
The Campaign and debate: Obama is speaking a different "language" to a new demographic that Hillary cannot reach. His response to McCain is an extreme example of this. Her 90's and 80's debate techniques are not working. The experienced voice is simply sounding...old, outdated and desperate. Watching the debate was almost painful and I felt bad for Hillary and she must be very frustrated right now. But she is a fighter and I do like that.
But she couldn't make anything work for her: Anyone who is "ready on day one" should have no problems with fielding the first debate question. Even the SNL skit reference (presumably for the youngsters) fell flat as well. Denounce? Reject? Obama even beat her on the "scary Farrakhan" question by...CONCEDING the point! Damn, nothing works!
Since he has clearly beaten the "best" in America thus far, I look forward to him engaging with foreign leaders. -
sevenoneeighty:
i played competitive sports for 13 years, which is why i know that the best team does NOT always win. that's what an upset is. if you were familiar with competitive sports, you would know this. people call this super bowl one of the greatest upsets in football history because the patriots are a better team.
a question: after spending 8 years in the white house with bill clinton, do you think hillary has more experience and knowledge of what it's like and what it takes to be president? i do. -
mr. met wrote: sevenoneeighty:
and I definitely don't play sports (I was the lousiest player on my college's rugby team ever because I was afraid of the ball), but I do play a lot of poker. and I've definitely seen some horrorshows of best hands being beaten. the absolute best play can always get cracked. it just happens. nothing is a certainty.
i played competitive sports for 13 years, which is why i know that the best team does NOT always win. that's what an upset is. if you were familiar with competitive sports, you would know this. people call this super bowl one of the greatest upsets in football history because the patriots are a better team.
a question: after spending 8 years in the white house with bill clinton, do you think hillary has more experience and knowledge of what it's like and what it takes to be president? i do. -
did you all see the article in the Daily News this morning stating the pros and cons of Bloomberg as Obama's Vice Prez...
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mr. met wrote: a question: after spending 8 years in the white house with bill clinton, do you think hillary has more experience and knowledge of what it's like and what it takes to be president? i do.
Maybe she does. So what? McCain has far more time in Washington than Obama, but I suspect his experience doesn't make you prefer him as a candidate.
It is fair to wonder if the support for Obama is merely a cult of personality. A lot of people seem to be projecting their own hopes on him instead of finding out what he really stands for. OTOH, many people have a pretty good idea what Hillary stands for, and they either don't like it or don't like the way she goes after it.
We all talk about the election as if the most important factor is what the candidates represent and how we expect them to govern, but the reality is, the presidential election is a popularity contest. And Obama seems to be more likable than Hillary.
That said, I think 7180 is right about the war being a problem for Obama - I doubt we can pull out as quickly as he wants. I don't think that will necessarily keep him from the White House, but it will cause a major backlash if he's elected and has to back down from his speedy time table. -
sprite:
well, yea, i wouldnt choose mccain over obama because he has more experience in washington. i think you know that's not a good comparison, though. mccain and obama have seriously conflicting viewpoints. obama and hillary have very similar stances, so experience in the white house could be seen as a tiebreaker for some. -
jaha127 wrote: did you all see the article in the Daily News this morning stating the pros and cons of Bloomberg as Obama's Vice Prez...
I would jump for joy if this a) were a reality (obama/bloomberg) and b) demand some RPS slash fiction (not that I'd read it. no, really. I wouldn't. *cough*). -
sprite wrote: It is fair to wonder if the support for Obama is merely a cult of personality. A lot of people seem to be projecting their own hopes on him instead of finding out what he really stands for. OTOH, many people have a pretty good idea what Hillary stands for, and they either don't like it or don't like the way she goes after it.
what's strange, frankly, is if you take Obama supporters and have them objectively read Clinton's website and figure out if they agree or not with her stated objectives, they often find themselves confused. this has happened with a lot of my friends who, have then, wondered why they even like Obama. maybe, frankly, Obama is more like Bill Clinton - he's just a really likeable guy. you can see yourself really believing in him so ... why not? I think if an Obama supporter read Hillary Clinton's website and listened, objectively, to her debates, they'd see she lays out well reasoned plans, step-by-step goals that can be actualized in the time periods stated, etc. it's boring as shit. and realistic. not ... flashy and hopeful.
maybe I'm the only one really ignoring the campaign? not that it matters, we all know politics is only like 10% about reality, anyway. if the best, smartest, savviest people were running and electable, none of these other folks would have a chance. those people, though, are billionaires. -
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=sprite]It is fair to wonder if the support for Obama is merely a cult of personality. A lot of people seem to be projecting their own hopes on him instead of finding out what he really stands for. OTOH, many people have a pretty good idea what Hillary stands for, and they either don't like it or don't like the way she goes after it.
what's strange, frankly, is if you take Obama supporters and have them objectively read Clinton's website and figure out if they agree or not with her stated objectives, they often find themselves confused. this has happened with a lot of my friends who, have then, wondered why they even like Obama. maybe, frankly, Obama is more like Bill Clinton - he's just a really likeable guy. you can see yourself really believing in him so ... why not? I think if an Obama supporter read Hillary Clinton's website and listened, objectively, to her debates, they'd see she lays out well reasoned plans, step-by-step goals that can be actualized in the time periods stated, etc. it's boring as shit. and realistic. not ... flashy and hopeful.
maybe I'm the only one really ignoring the campaign? not that it matters, we all know politics is only like 10% about reality, anyway. if the best, smartest, savviest people were running and electable, none of these other folks would have a chance. those people, though, are billionaires.
This reporter had the same views about "cult of personality". See what happened when he approached a young Obama supporter outside the LA debate...
http://tinyurl.com/3ya3bf -
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=sprite]It is fair to wonder if the support for Obama is merely a cult of personality. A lot of people seem to be projecting their own hopes on him instead of finding out what he really stands for. OTOH, many people have a pretty good idea what Hillary stands for, and they either don't like it or don't like the way she goes after it.
what's strange, frankly, is if you take Obama supporters and have them objectively read Clinton's website and figure out if they agree or not with her stated objectives, they often find themselves confused. this has happened with a lot of my friends who, have then, wondered why they even like Obama. maybe, frankly, Obama is more like Bill Clinton - he's just a really likeable guy. you can see yourself really believing in him so ... why not? I think if an Obama supporter read Hillary Clinton's website and listened, objectively, to her debates, they'd see she lays out well reasoned plans, step-by-step goals that can be actualized in the time periods stated, etc. it's boring as shit. and realistic. not ... flashy and hopeful.
maybe I'm the only one really ignoring the campaign?
I'm really not following the campaigns either - I'm not a member of any party, so my opinions about Obama and Hillary are academic until one becomes the actual candidate. But I have been following the commentary to a degree, and my impression is that, as you've said, Obama and Hillary aren't wildly different in terms of policy. Since that's they case, why wouldn't people choose the candidate they like better? If someone likes Hillary better because of her experience, I think that's legit; I just think it's equally fine to prefer Obama's style.
Experience is a valuable thing, but it can be a weakness, too - it's easy to get rigid or overconfident when you've been doing something a while. I gather Hillary has fallen prey to both of those failings during this campaign, and it hurt her. And Obama isn't standing still. In her op-ed today, Gail Collins says he has "the best learning curve in political history."
I believe a person can't really know what it's like to be president until they're president. Maybe it's a good idea to pick someone who looks like he'll learn quickly on the job.not that it matters, we all know politics is only like 10% about reality, anyway. if the best, smartest, savviest people were running and electable, none of these other folks would have a chance. those people, though, are billionaires.
So true. We wouldn't have this country without the efforts of John Adams and James Madison, neither of whom could have been elected today. It's pretty depressing. -
a friend of mine posted this a bit ago - it's hilarious.
http://billyfleetwood.livejournal.com/130279.html -
...can the "better" team be beaten by an "underdog" 11 times in a row...I went to school in a different state, there were no 7th place ribbons...
"Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth"
-Mike Tyson (smartest thing ever said regarding strategy)
Moving on.
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Regarding Iraq( and really terrorism), this is where I am concerned about Obama - not just for the election, but for the safety of America in general.
He will need to be strong in this area and show he is a commander in chief. IMO Barrack is going to have to come strong with all the Iraq flaws,
but he MUST have strong answers for these topics (real or imagined):
-stability in the Mesopotamian region/ America/world against ALL jihadists
-oil prices of the region falls
-Iraq asking U.S. to stay
-fighting terrorism globally
-Guantanamo
-Torture/ water boarding
-wire-tapping/ surveillance
-Patriot Act
-would you do it all over again, John? (moot, but a good question)
-no attacks since 9/11
-stability in Iraq since the "surge"
It is very true that both Barrack and Hillary are so similar on their issues (which is what has made it difficult for her to stop him as well, but had she been a better politician, she could have pounded him on his record in a way to show his weaknesses and her strengths intelligently - but she couldn't make it work). She is losing for other intangible reasons as well. But Obama will not have the same situation when the GOP and conservatives get a hold of him. Something tells me he can handle McCain in a debate though....and secretly, I think McCain knows it too...
Yup, This is going to be a looong election year. -
barry dancing
sorta
kinda...
hillary probably dances betta -
Love. This.
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sevenoneeighty:
what are you referencing with "11 times in a row"? who beat who 11 times in a row? -
quijibo wrote: barry dancing
I think he dances better when actually on the show rather than via satellite. He probably couldn't hear the music.
sorta
kinda...
hillary probably dances betta
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And Mr. Met: 7180 was referring to the pasting BO gave to Hilary.
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