Election 2008: So is Barrack Obama finished?
Comments
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Carnivore wrote: Now with 99% reporting in, it's 61% Obama, 37% Clinton in Mississippi. Of 33 elected delegates and 7 super-delegates, so far they're split 17 for Obama and 11 for Clinton.
well, it's OBVIOUS Mississippi is yearning for Obama as the VP choice...
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quijibo wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Now with 99% reporting in, it's 61% Obama, 37% Clinton in Mississippi. Of 33 elected delegates and 7 super-delegates, so far they're split 17 for Obama and 11 for Clinton.
well, it's OBVIOUS Mississippi is yearning for Obama as the VP choice...
what sucks about there being no contest on the repub side is that we aren't getting a clear picture of how many voters the dems are actually getting in. kinda lame. it's not a pretty picture if obama won 61% of the vote from the dem non-majority of say (I'm just guessing here) 20% of the state. like, so what? we all know he's getting the nomination. how can he set himself up to actually win the freakin' election? big picture, people. big picture. -
is barack planning on running a "clean campaign" for the presidency if he is nominated?
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mr. met wrote: is barack planning on running a "clean campaign" for the presidency if he is nominated?
I dunno but I have a feeling it might be less bloody btwn him and McCain than Clinton vs McCain (from both sides of the latter contest.) -
I dunno but I have a feeling it might be less bloody btwn him and McCain than Clinton vs McCain (from both sides of the latter contest.)
i disagree.
if barack thinks hillary fights dirty, he better grow a pair when he faces the republicans. -
mr. met wrote:
I don't like to equate dirty politics to training for a sport. If people think 'bloodying up' Obama will prepare him for a general election the way a boxer trains for a fight, it doesn't really work that way. Bloody Obama may well come away knowing how to more effectively dodge and counter dirty politics, but all the attacks now will continue to bloody him up while McCain starts landing blows. It's not like Hillary's a sparring partner for Obama. A more apt analogy is an unfair fight, with Hillary as McCain's tag-team partner. Hillary's methods are only helping herself and McCain from going down. Don't see a net plus for Obama or the Dem party.I dunno but I have a feeling it might be less bloody btwn him and McCain than Clinton vs McCain (from both sides of the latter contest.)
i disagree.
if barack thinks hillary fights dirty, he better grow a pair when he faces the republicans. -
I don't like to equate dirty politics to training for a sport. If people think 'bloodying up' Obama will prepare him for a general election the way a boxer trains for a fight, it doesn't really work that way. Bloody Obama may well come away knowing how to more effectively dodge and counter dirty politics, but all the attacks now will continue to bloody him up while McCain starts landing blows. It's not like Hillary's a sparring partner for Obama. A more apt analogy is an unfair fight, with Hillary as McCain's tag-team partner. Hillary's methods are only helping herself and McCain from going down. Don't see a net plus for Obama or the Dem party.
is this a response to my post? all i said was that obama v. mccain would be just as dirty/bloody as clinton v. mccain. nothing about hillary preparing obama for mccain. -
mr. met wrote:
I hear ya. My post was more in response to what seems like conventional wisdom that Obama needs to be "tested" in the primary before we know if he's ready for the general. And also, I just like using analogies. They're like..... never mind.I don't like to equate dirty politics to training for a sport. If people think 'bloodying up' Obama will prepare him for a general election the way a boxer trains for a fight, it doesn't really work that way. Bloody Obama may well come away knowing how to more effectively dodge and counter dirty politics, but all the attacks now will continue to bloody him up while McCain starts landing blows. It's not like Hillary's a sparring partner for Obama. A more apt analogy is an unfair fight, with Hillary as McCain's tag-team partner. Hillary's methods are only helping herself and McCain from going down. Don't see a net plus for Obama or the Dem party.
is this a response to my post? all i said was that obama v. mccain would be just as dirty/bloody as clinton v. mccain. nothing about hillary preparing obama for mccain. -
izisharp wrote: I hear ya. My post was more in response to what seems like conventional wisdom that Obama needs to be "tested" in the primary before we know if he's ready for the general. And also, I just like using analogies. They're like..... never mind.
I don't know that he needs "testing", per se. I just know that when Obama has failed to respond to Clinton's attacks in his patented "I'm a good person who won't stoop to this level way" he's gotten nailed. the NAFTA thing being top on that list. I don't fault him - as far as I can tell dude was to some degree or another set up to get nailed on that. I just think that he's going to get a lot more of that crap for the general election. I have a feeling the McCain camp is stockpiling bullshit stories to drop every few days once Obama secures the nomination. the Republicans have always played dirty, and it wins them a lot of elections - heck, it even works on the Supreme Court. Obama needs to be prepared and so far I have my doubts that he can take it. he either needs to stand by his "clean" campaign thing and really try to stay in that place, or he needs to employ some sleazy bastards that have read all of the psycho-linguistic crap that he'll need to stoop to McCain's level.
it's definitely not about boxing - he'd get knocked out in a heartbeat in the ring. -
alafairnadia wrote: it's definitely not about boxing - he'd get knocked out in a heartbeat in the ring.
I disagree:
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this is hilarious:
http://nahright.com/news/2008/03/14/dmx-on-barack-obama/
Are you following the presidential race?
Not at all.
You’re not? You know there’s a Black guy running, Barack Obama and then there’s Hillary Clinton.
His name is Barack?!
Barack Obama, yeah.
Barack?!
Barack.
What the fuck is a Barack?! Barack Obama. Where he from, Africa?
Yeah, his dad is from Kenya.
Barack Obama?
Yeah.
What the fuck?! That ain’t no fuckin’ name, yo. That ain’t that nigga’s name. You can’t be serious. Barack Obama. Get the fuck outta here. -
Sen. Obama's speech in Philly today was incredible.
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Sen. Obama's speech in Philly today was incredible.
did it inspire and give hope for the future?
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mr. met wrote: did it inspire and give hope for the future?
Decide for yourself:
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mr. met wrote:
Compare Obama's speech today to the most flattering excerpt or compilation of Dubya, or Hillary or McCain for that matter, then see if you still laugh off Obama's eloquence.Sen. Obama's speech in Philly today was incredible.
did it inspire and give hope for the future?
I thought Obama's speech today was very courageous. Rather than simply denounce or disassociate himself from the current controversy to be politically safe, Obama chose to give context to his relationship to Wright and to the type of statements Wright made. It was a description of the black experience in America never given by an American politician with such a huge platform. I believe Obama's reasoned, thoughtful response to this political controversy shows what kind of attitude and method he'd bring to the office of President. His speech today was clearly a change from the norm in political sparring and damage control. -
Pardon the hyperbole, but if Sen. Obama indeed becomes POTUS this may be remembered as his own "I Have a Dream" speech.
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Pardon the hyperbole, but if Sen. Obama indeed becomes POTUS this may be remembered as his own "I Have a Dream" speech.
at least you admit it's hyperboleDecide for yourself:
i'm sure it was great. just teasing. -
awesome awesome speech
I watched it live on MSNBC, and was annoyed at the news ticker at the bottom, running local sex lives of politicians news
+ McGreevey (in bitter divorce battle) claims he and his wife and his boyfriend/aide had threesomes
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6024377
+ Patterson and wife and their affairs during their marriage. Which I think is really cool news - talking about life and how it is really lived. Yeah, we have problems, and we deal with them... -
wow
I just love who this guy isBarrack Obama wrote: I could no more disown him than disown the black community. I could no more disown him than I could disown my white grandmother
on the Wright thing
on the America Goddamn thing
I just thought of that Nina Simone songNina Simone wrote: This song is from a musical that hasn't been written yet.
The name of this tune is Mississippi Goddamn
And I mean every word of it
Alabama's gotten me so upset
Tennessee made me lose my rest
And everybody knows about Mississippi Goddamn -
Hmm. I feel like I'm missing out on Obamania or Barackapalooza. And it pisses me off. I'm reading the stories, and I'm just not getting it. I have to wait until morning to actually watch the speech. Maybe I'll feel different then.
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...I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.
I'm glad he did this.
But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.
As such, Reverend Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems – two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all....
Of course Barrack hit it out of the Park with the speech.
No one expected less from him. Unfortunately, while wisely supporting the the black community and church, Rev. Wright's comments and his association with him are going to be a BIG problem for him from here on out. As Obama accurately said, they are divisive and counterproductive.
He may have stopped the endless FOX news loop with his speech today.
But the independents and undecided voters (part of his strength) are fleeing fast. I think we can see Hillary win 6 of 10 remaining contests AND pass him in the popular vote after this. Time will tell, but I would be surprised if this thing doesn't spell the end for him. If he survives this, it is a true sign that things have changed.
But the speech was better than anything Hillary or McCain have ever achieved. What can you say? The guy is articulate. -
So, John McCain, the "most qualified candidate on foreign policy" doesn't understand the basic differences between Sunni and Shiite. How else to explain him clinging to the painfully ignorant claim that "Iran supports and trains 'Al Qaeda in Iraq'"?
I hate to play 'gotcha' with sound bites, but how can this ignorance possibly be explained away?...With increasing frequency, McCain reminds us that he really doesn’t know what he’s talking about most of the time.
original link here from Steven Benen @ Carpetbagger
All of this is, of course, wrong. Al Qaeda is Sunni; Iran is Shiite. This is “common knowledge.” McCain was speaking with authority about the basics in the Middle East, and getting the regional dynamic backwards.
Sen. John McCain, traveling in the Middle East to promote his foreign policy expertise, misidentified in remarks Tuesday which broad category of Iraqi extremists are allegedly receiving support from Iran.
He said several times that Iran, a predominately Shiite country, was supplying the mostly Sunni militant group, al-Qaeda. In fact, officials have said they believe Iran is helping Shiite extremists in Iraq.
Speaking to reporters in Amman, the Jordanian capital, McCain said he and two Senate colleagues traveling with him continue to be concerned about Iranian operatives “taking al-Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back.”
Pressed to elaborate, McCain said it was “common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that’s well known. And it’s unfortunate.” -
Heh, have a look at CNN's front page headline and summary immediately following the speech:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4972/cnnqv6.jpg
(way too tall/wide to post here, and reducing it reduces legibility)
So that's really what you're going with, eh Wolf?
Figures... -
jeffrey wrote: Heh, have a look at CNN's front page headline and summary immediately following the speech:
image was removed..bummer...what was it?
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4972/cnnqv6.jpg
(way too tall/wide to post here, and reducing it reduces legibility)
So that's really what you're going with, eh Wolf?
Figures... -
SevenOneEighty wrote: He may have stopped the endless FOX news loop with his speech today.
totally agree. great speech, wonderful message. amusingly, a message I've heard frequently from my born-again friends. I don't think what happens after this will turn on that speech - that's giving way too much credit to the speech. I think the sound bytes chosen and message conveyed in the next few weeks will be more critical. if the appropriate bits are chosen and used properly, he's got an in with conservative america. otherwise, yeah, he might have screwed himself. but, frankly, I respect him more for finally stepping up to the plate and saying this shit out loud. cause. well. (I won't go there, but read my other messages and swap in blacks for women/feminism, k? I like people who can articulate exactly where they believe they stand in the world.)
But the independents and undecided voters (part of his strength) are fleeing fast. I think we can see Hillary win 6 of 10 remaining contests AND pass him in the popular vote after this. Time will tell, but I would be surprised if this thing doesn't spell the end for him. If he survives this, it is a true sign that things have changed.
But the speech was better than anything Hillary or McCain have ever achieved. What can you say? The guy is articulate. -
SevenOneEighty wrote: But the independents and undecided voters (part of his strength) are fleeing fast.
Can you link to a poll or article that supports this? -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=SevenOneEighty]But the independents and undecided voters (part of his strength) are fleeing fast.
Can you link to a poll or article that supports this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1824791220080319
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/10525
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/poll-shows-rev.html
And personally, I was firmly in the Clinton or Obama, whatever camp. The more I read about some of these things, the more uneasy I feel about Obama. Sorry. Still thinking it out though. -
daver wrote: Can you link to a poll or article that supports this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1824791220080319
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/10525
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/poll-shows-rev.html
Thanks for the links, they were interesting. However they didn't really address or prove whether moderates and independents are "fleeing" Obama, as stated above.And personally, I was firmly in the Clinton or Obama, whatever camp. The more I read about some of these things, the more uneasy I feel about Obama. Sorry. Still thinking it out though.
Did the speech change your thoughts at all regarding Obama and Rev. Wright? -
pitu wrote: [quote=jeffrey]Heh, have a look at CNN's front page headline and summary immediately following the speech:
image was removed..bummer...what was it?
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4972/cnnqv6.jpg
(way too tall/wide to post here, and reducing it reduces legibility)
So that's really what you're going with, eh Wolf?
Figures...
Here's a mirror:
http://image.bayimg.com/dajgiaabd.jpg
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