10% rent increase on stabilized apt ok with pref. rate?
Earlier this year I received a notification from the State of NY Division of Housing that showed that I'm paying a lower preferential rate than the current market rate.
Last week I received a call from my landlord in which he told me that he would raise the rent by 10% for my renewal. Now I know that the legal increase is 3% for one year, however does this apply for a preferential rate as well? Even with the 10% I would not quite pay market rate.
So if it's not legal but I get push back from him anyway do I have a leg to stand on without being the enemy and have him try to get me out of the place?
Last week I received a call from my landlord in which he told me that he would raise the rent by 10% for my renewal. Now I know that the legal increase is 3% for one year, however does this apply for a preferential rate as well? Even with the 10% I would not quite pay market rate.
So if it's not legal but I get push back from him anyway do I have a leg to stand on without being the enemy and have him try to get me out of the place?
Comments
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I just renewed my lease on a rent stabilized apt.
The law is 3% for 1 year 5.75% for two.
I would recommend calling housing to verify his 10% request is within the stabilization law.
If you pay your rent on time and are a good tenant he would have one hell of a time trying to evict you. -
suggest you ask this on tenant.net
2 or 3 years ago, there were some changes in the way increases could be applied to apts that were on preferential rent.specifically, i think an LL can now base increase of a preferential rent apt on whatever the legal rent is.
this legal rent should be on pref rent rider. -
Check with Met Council on Housing for the law on this.
212-979-0611 open for calls M, W, F 1:30pm-5pm
Also listen to Housing Notebook on 99.5 WBAI on Monday evenings and call in with your question. -
If your lease states that the rent you are being charged is a preferential rent and also states what the legal rent is the landlord has the right to charge up to the legal rent plus the 1 or 2 yr increase.
So if the legal rent is $1100 and you are paying $1000 (preferential) the landlord can charge up to $1100 + the 1 or 2 yr increase. For instance, if the one year increase is 3% he would be able to charge up to $1133.
If it is not documented on your lease that the legal rent is higher than what you are paying then the landlord cannot charge the higher amount, only the 1 or 2 yr increase above what you are currently paying. -
It is not noted on the lease that my rent is preferential, it was only on the letter in the mail.
I currently have a month to month lease though as we didn't extend my last lease in April...
OK I will swing by now and check out the deal.
Thanks for your advice. -
Just as expected, he gave me some bullshit line about the apartment being de-regulated (?), the rent should be much higher, he needs to speak to the lawyer (but I need to make up my mind, in other words he's not speaking to anyone) and I don't have to sign it if I don't want to stay there.
With any other person I could have a friendly conversation about this and either find a compromise or not - but with this one it seems like there's no discussion possible. He shuts down straight away. I've always been a good tenant and I do want to stay there and the bottom line is that I would even pay up to the market price, but I don't want to be ripped off with illegal increases, lower rent than market price or not.
Thoughts? -
I'm not familiar with the rent stabilization law, but, in general, if you do not have an actual lease, and are instead a month to month tenant without an actual signed current lease, then the landlord is probably entitled to terminate your tenancy for any reason or for no reason at all.
Be very careful how you handle these negotiations, and good luck! -
Speaking from experience as someone who tried to negotiate after my lease had already expired and i was just going month to month be very careful. My advice (take it for just that) is that you make sure you are not being illegally taken advantage of, but also do what you can to sign a guaranteed lease ASAP if that is what you are looking for. If you like your place, make sure the increase is legal and sign, quickly. Rent is going up by the minute in this area and has become outrageous. I only wish that I could find an apartment to rent under market value!! Good luck
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You need a lawyer.
From www.tenant.net18 wrote: Lease Renewal Disputes: A Guide[/size]
By William Rowen
Tenant/Inquilino, July 2002
With six and a half years of landlord-sympathetic control of the state rent regulatory agency, the Division of Housing and Community Renewal, under Governor Pataki, tenants must watch their step as never before.
At least once every two years, rent-stabilized tenants renew their leases. The landlord must offer a new lease between 90 and 150 days before the old one expires. If the landlord doesn’t offer it on time, the tenant can have the renewal date be either the day after the old lease expires or 90 days after the offer.
Frequently, the landlord pulls a fast one and tries to get the tenant to sign a lease that violates one or more of their rights. For example, a renewal lease may be offered late, and/or have a unlawful commencement date; be retroactive and require the tenant to pay a retroactive rent hike; include unlawful riders or request information that is strictly the tenant’s private business; exclude the required “tenants’ rights rider”; either misapply the applicable rent adjustments or use the wrong base rent; or be treated as in force by the landlord without the tenant receiving a copy signed by the landlord or his agent. A Rule: Do not agree to go to the landlord’s office to renew your lease, or to demands for your immediate signature at your door.
Generally, stabilized leases must be renewed on the same terms, or better terms for the tenant, as the lease they signed when they moved in. So that means if a landlord either inserts clauses or riders that are to his advantage, or excludes previous provisions that were beneficial to the tenant, those changes are null and void, and not enforceable when a dispute arises. Of course, the problem with this is that many a tenant considers the entire current lease to be valid, whether it is or not. A Rule: Analyze every aspect of the renewal offer carefully early in the 60-day consideration period.
The law allows only two landlord-oriented provisions added to a renewal lease: (1) the right to adjust the lease terms or rent by order of the DHCR or the Rent Guidelines Board, and (2) the imposition of the subsequently adopted rent guideline when the lease is executed during a period when the guideline is unknown or pending final adoption. These provisions are preprinted on the two-page state-authorized form (RTP-8) that is the only renewal form allowed under rent stabilization. A Rule: Don’t agree to unauthorized riders, give the landlord private information, or accept any renewal form other than the RTP-8.
Tenants should realize that they don’t lose any rights by not having a current lease. Their rights are in the rent laws. Leases under rent stabilization are superfluous landlord-oriented documents superimposed onto the rent-stabilization laws to provide landlords with the opportunity to intimidate their tenants. The chief intimidation is, of course, the fear of eviction growing out of the commonplace belief that, without a lease, the tenant loses the right of security of tenure.
Rent-controlled tenants know better. Because that law does not tie rent adjustments in any way to leases, most landlords never bother to ask the rent-controlled tenant to renew their lease, although the landlord has the right to in the law. Landlord lobbyists added leases to the bill that created rent stabilization to empower landlords. Without leases, rents of all stabilized tenants could be adjusted annually or biannually without the trouble, pain and abuse. Nothing else would change, and landlords would lose a big weapon.
So the question for the rent-stabilized tenant becomes: How can I prevent my landlord from using this “lease renewal” process—think “lease intimidation” process—as a bludgeon to take away my rights? First, know or inform yourself of your rights. Second, seek the information you need when the landlord makes the renewal offer, not at the last minute when your 60-day consideration period is about up. Third, respond to the landlord’s tricks in a way that leaves a paper trail that says you are pursuing your rights. A Rule: Seek help from trustworthy sources—a citywide tenants association like Met Council, a local tenants organization, a pro-tenant local legislator, or a tenant (not landlord) lawyer, if you can afford one. Beware of advice from DHCR.
What if the landlord does not send you a renewal offer? The law says he cannot raise your rent, and that his duty to offer you a renewal simply continues. The tenant has no obligations until the landlord makes a proper offer. A tenant without a lease renewal becomes a month-to-month stabilized tenant with the same rights, and one advantage: The rent stays the same as under the expired lease. A Rule: Don’t pay any unauthorized rent hikes tacked on to your rent bill as a month-to-month tenant.
Back to a landlord’s improper renewal offer. Besides writing to your landlord to register your objections to the lease offer, you may want to file a complaint with the DHCR on their Form RA-90, Tenant’s Complaint of Owner’s Failure to Renew Lease and/or Failure to Furnish a Copy of a Signed Lease. This is usually only advisable when the dispute threatens to go to Housing Court. DHCR decisions often ignore the tenant-protection provisions in the law and code. However, filing with DHCR shows an extra level of seriousness on your part to resolve the issues in your favor, even if you distrust DHCR. A Rule: Always retain copies of all documents, and use regular mail with smaller landlords and managing agents; they often will not accept certified mail, as it usually means trouble. Certified is good with DHCR.
It is potentially an evictable offense to ignore a lease offer. In the past, few landlords, and very few judges, wanted to enforce the tenant’s failure to renew a lease rule through eviction. But times, if you hadn’t noticed, have changed, and all those tenants with desirable apartments and even remotely affordable rents are targets in the great landlord rush to decontrol any vacant apartment rentable for $2,000 or more a month. More common landlord claims are illegal subletting and non-primary residence.
In a recent case, a tenant tried to escape eviction by claiming the landlord had no right to give notice of non-renewal of lease on the grounds of non-primary residence because the tenant had no current lease. The tenant had refused to sign the prior renewal lease offer because the landlord had used her married name on the form. But the tenant then commenced to pay the rent increase authorized by the lease she refused to sign. A state appeals court found that the tenant had a lease because of her agreement to the increase, without a fully-executed or “delivered” document. You can’t have it both ways.
If you dispute a renewal, you can’t agree to other parts not in dispute to prove your “good faith.” This may “deem” the lease you dispute into existence. In fact, the rent-stabilization code changes adopted in December 2000 allow a lease to go into effect by the tenant merely ignoring the renewal offer, if the landlord lets them stay—though the landlord also has the option to commence an eviction action in court. The lesson here is to dispute improper lease-renewal offers right away and in writing. Don’t give the landlord the opportunity to define the dispute his way. -
Cr@p, so I have this exact situation going on: I'm right, but it seems like a hassle to object. BTW he wants me to sign the papers in his store, I don't have any paperwork yet - only this grumpy old man who won't negotiate.
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Don't panic.
The law is usually on the tenant's side. (I know, I am a landlord)
The quote form the article is absolutly correct.
If you are a stabilized tenant, you are entitled to a renewal.
What if the landlord does not send you a renewal offer? The law says he cannot raise your rent, and that his duty to offer you a renewal simply continues. The tenant has no obligations until the landlord makes a proper offer. A tenant without a lease renewal becomes a month-to-month stabilized tenant with the same rights, and one advantage: The rent stays the same as under the expired lease. A Rule: Don’t pay any unauthorized rent hikes tacked on to your rent bill as a month-to-month tenant.
LEGAL rent is usually lower than MARKET rent, but not always.
If you have a preferential rent the waters are a little muddy right now.
About two years ago DHCR issued a ruling that said "at renewal" a LL can jump up a preferential rent to the legal rent plus the normal increases. A tenant sued and one court agreed with the tenant and said the preferential rent must continue for the duration of the tenancy. The issue was the exact wording of the lease. The case was appealed and the final verdict is still unknown. Landlords were cautioned to be careful because it could result in a retroactive OVERCHARGE when the appeal is decided.
Also, unless the legal rent is over $2,000 the apartment can not be de-regulated.
Bottom line: get the right advice, don't be intimidated, don't feel rushed, if you want to pay the LEGAL rent to keep a good apartment, feel free. If you end up overpaying and later make an issue of it, the landlord is the one who gets in trouble, not the tenant. -
FWIW, I have a preferential rent amount, and the way my landlord has worked it is that the increase percentage is applied to the higher rent, then the amount is added to my previous rent. So, let's say I was paying $900 but the legal rent was $1000, and the increase amount was 3%. Upon receiving a lease renewal, my rent would go up to $930, because 3% of $1000 is $30.
I can't tell you whether that's legal, proper, etc. - I'm just saying it's what's happening. -
When you moved in, was your registered rent for the apartment over $2,000 a month?
If it was, and he gave you a lower preferential rent, then the landlord is within his rights.
Better go back to your original lease to see what amount is on it.
An owner can deregulate an apartment when the rent is over $2,000 a month. He then has, at his option, to charge a lower amount, but the apartment stays de-regulated. If this is the case, then he can charge whatever amount he wants regardless of rent stabilization. Better check your paperwork before hiring lawyers. -
No, my rent is 1,300$.
And I don't have the money to hire lawyers for this. I will call the MetTenant line today for advice, but I will probably just suck it up in the end and pay the increase... :-( -
Did the landlord do any improvements to the building that would qualify for an MCI increase to the building? This is a building wide improvement. The owner is allowed to charge a certain % for the cost of the work.
Your renewal could have in it the additional cost of the MCI increase. Check out the renewal page.
You don't have to hire an attorney, simply go onto to the NYS DHCR website. There they have the laws and the forms that you can download to fire an overcharge complaint. It is then the responsibility of the owner to provide the documentation to justify his increase.
Here is another question, how many units are in the building?
If there are 6 or less, then Rent Stabilization does not apply, but if it's more than 6 units than RS does apply below $2,000 a month. -
No improvements, he just keeps it in the fairly crappy state it's in, but that's ok.
6 units in the building. But he owns a bunch of houses on the street.
What gets me is the way this is handled. I did not get the paperwork. He makes me sign it in his shop. I can't ask a question without him blowing up straight away. I'm not saying that I won't sign this lease, nor do I want to create a big situation here - but I want to have the right to talk about this, you know, ask a simple question without being hated for it. -
You have the right to review any and all paperwork before you sign anything.
Thug tactics are just plain wrong.
I'm also a Landlord, but this is just wrong. He has to follow the rules.
As much as I do not like them, but you should go to the 5th Avenue commitee for advice. They are tenant advocates. Their are also lawyers who help tenants pro bono at the courts at 141 Livingston Street.
Do not sign anything.
He's being slimy. -
Can you wear a suit and pretend you're my lawyer? I'll buy you dinner ;-)
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Sorry,
I'm also a Broker, and I would be breaking my fiduciary responsibilities if I misrepresented myself.
But seriously, go to the 5th Avenue Committee. They can help. -
Update.
I called MetTenant and DHCS, both very helpful.
I have the history of my apartment, and I have the complaint forms for all kinds of things my landlord forgot.
I was ready to kick some butt over the phone. So I just called him... and here's what happened:
He blamed the broker for screwing up my original lease - the broker should have listed both the preferential as well as the legal rent on it.
He was talking about his right to apply the vacancy control law (?) before I moved in, which was not done either.
Bottom line was - he told me to pay what "they told me is legal". And I'm welcome. And he even said thank you.
Wow. Amazing how far the word "legal" goes.
He still won't send me a lease, I have to go to the store and sign it there.
But I can "discuss" with him (as I'm not 100% sure he actually meant what he said) and we're not hating each other openly yet.
THANKS everyone for bringing out my fighter spirit! -
Christina wrote: Update.
I wouldn't sign it in the store. You have the right to have a lawyer look over that lease. If he refuses to send it to you and you're not willing to make an issue of it, read it really carefully in the store before signing it and cross out and initial anything that doesn't seem right to you before signing. Or better yet, bring a lawyer with you to read it over before you sign.
I called MetTenant and DHCS, both very helpful.
I have the history of my apartment, and I have the complaint forms for all kinds of things my landlord forgot.
I was ready to kick some butt over the phone. So I just called him... and here's what happened:
He blamed the broker for screwing up my original lease - the broker should have listed both the preferential as well as the legal rent on it.
He was talking about his right to apply the vacancy control law (?) before I moved in, which was not done either.
Bottom line was - he told me to pay what "they told me is legal". And I'm welcome. And he even said thank you.
Wow. Amazing how far the word "legal" goes.
He still won't send me a lease, I have to go to the store and sign it there.
But I can "discuss" with him (as I'm not 100% sure he actually meant what he said) and we're not hating each other openly yet.
THANKS everyone for bringing out my fighter spirit! -
So I just received an "additional rider to lease" which reads the following:
44.) Landlord has computed the monthly maximum allowable rental increase to be $44.01 (3%) for one year renewal lease, making the maximum rental $1,510.71.
However for reasons totally personal between landlord and tenant, tenant is being charged a monthly rental of $1,339, $171.71 less than the maximum rent permissible under DHCR rules and regulations.
It is understood between the parties that at the expiration of this lease and all subsequent leases, landlord shall have the right to offer a renewal lease to Christina based upon the maximum permissible rent plus the percentage of increase permittedc by the DHCR at the time of lease renewal. However, landlord represents to Christina that her increased rent will always be based upon the amount she is responsible for, and not the maximum permissible rent.
This paragraph "42" is inserted into the rider to preserve landlord's right to collect the maximum permissible rent allowed by the DHCR or any subsequent authority after Christina has vacated the premises.
.............................
Ok, so this may be totally acceptable but I didn't sign it yet as I'm unsure of how to read the "it is understood" part.
Does it say that next year when my lease expires he can then charge me the market rent + legal increase?
What does the "however landlord represents.." part mean then?
That he will continue charging the preferred rate?
(The whole reason for this paragraph is that the original lease didn't mention that I paid a preferential rate, which is illegal and he's now trying to cover his ass for it. I'm wondering if it can be inserted later like this though)
Do I need to get another lease with this or have I officially signed an extension with this document alone? I guess not, since it doesn't list any dates.
(Also, this may be cosmetic, but the number says 44, but the document refers to paragraph 42 later on).
I will call MetCouncil again on Monday, but if anyone has any advice beforehand I'll gladly take it.
thank you! -
You are not required to sign any riders to the lease. I highly suggest you get a professional to scrutinize the exact wording of that rider to make sure that you won't be responsible for the larger amount with future renewals. Also, in the interest of goodwill toward your neighbors, you may not want to put that into your lease to protect whoever gets that apartment when you leave from having to pay the higher rate. However, that may not be worth your trouble as long as your rent is based on the preferential rate for as long as you're there. If you don't want to get your own lawyer, at least check with one of the organizations above before signing that.
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The renewal has to specifically state that the preferential rent is for that lease term only, and when it expires, the owner can charge the legally registered rent.
Check the dhcr ruling on preferential rent for the exact wording. -
nkotsonis wrote: The renewal has to specifically state that the preferential rent is for that lease term only, and when it expires, the owner can charge the legally registered rent.
Yes, but if her original lease didn't say the rate was preferential, she isn't obliged to sign a rider now that says it is.
Check the dhcr ruling on preferential rent for the exact wording. -
I agree Carnivore,
But the owner does have the right to state it in the renewal period. That is why. she should have an advocate at her side to read things over. -
nkotsonis wrote: I agree Carnivore,
Since her original lease did not list the rent as being preferential, I'm pretty sure that she is entitled to keep that rent (plus whatever raises are approved by the state) as long as she stays there. She doesn't have to accept that rider, although it's pretty obvious why the landlord would want her to. But I'm not a lawyer. I agree with you that she should get one before signing anything.
But the owner does have the right to state it in the renewal period. That is why. she should have an advocate at her side to read things over. -
you have to be offered a renewal lease on the same terms as the original lease. The landlord cannot undo his previous mistake. In fact, you should just get a renewal form, DHCR form RTP-8 (http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/ora/forms/pdf/rtp8.pdf) and not a new lease.
Here's a link to how renewals in rent stabilized apts. work: http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/ora/pubs/html/orafac4.htm -
I'm wishing we still had the post-rating function! That definitely warrants some stars!
Thanks for the solid info, Ben!
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