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Renters/Landlords: Return of sec. deposit/what's acceptable? — Brooklynian

Renters/Landlords: Return of sec. deposit/what's acceptable?

barefoot
barefoot
edited November -1 in Park Slope

Subject: Renters/Landlords: Return of sec. deposit/what's acceptable?

Due to a family medical emergency, have had to notify landlord that I need to move out (out of state, actually) approximately 6 months before our lease ends. We gave 30 days notice.

We've lived here 4+years, paid rent early each month, kept the apartment in great condition, and had positive interactions with owners since we moved in. The only odd thing is that the owners don't live on the premises but their adult children do- one acts as "manager," and she has been difficult for all the tenants to deal with over the years. We think that her parents have given her this responsibility as a sort of opportunity for development...

We paid the rent for this month, which is our last. They have not said anything to us about penalties for breaking the lease, nor anything about return of our deposit (which was more than one month's worth because it included a pet deposit).

Odds of renting it out quickly are very good- it's a floor thru in a brownstone on Montgomery Place and it's reasonably priced for the area, I think.

What are our chances, do you think, that our deposit will be returned? The fact that it hasn't been mentioned makes me think they want to keep it- in that case, I would have just not paid the last month's rent...but that seems like a really agressive gesture, and I don't want to bring any retribution on myself for non-payment of rent. But I really want my deposit back!

Can anyone advise? Thanks!

Comments

  • MOD
    MOD
    Obviously, I can't be positive, but from my experience as a renter the longer you stay there the less deposit you get back. My last place deducted carpet cleaning and a other misc. things and we didn't get much of our deposit back. I wasn't up for a fight so I let it go, I had other issues going on, as it seems you do too. I was living there for almost 4 years too.

    I'd contact the owners directly if possible and review your lease closely.
  • stacey
    stacey
    Maybe you can bring the subject up as follows: "our last day here will be December 31 and you can forward our security deposit to the following address - (then give them the new address)." I would also put the same thing in writing and mail it to them when you get to the new address with language similar to: "pursuant to our conversation of (whichever date you talk to them) this is to inform you that the mailing address for the return of our security deposit is . . . .". When we moved out of our apartment we did a walk through with the landlord and she deducted $30 from our deposit in order to patch the walls where we hung photos, etc.

    Im not sure what the laws are regarding ending a lease early - but you might want to try tenant.net to see if they can keep any of the deposit to make the difference in rent from you to the next person who rents.

    Sorry to hear of your family situation - hope it all works out well.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    I think that you are technically responsible for rent up through the end of the lease, so at least you have something to negotiate with. If you don't think you have anything that the deposit can legitimately be withheld for, you can at least hold the balance of the rent until it's clear what your deposit situation is. You should meet with your landlord and negotiate a fair situation (you're only responsible for rent until the landlord finds another tenant or something). If your apartment is rent stabilized though, be very careful about agreeing to a situation like this. If you turn over your keys, the landlord may take this time to do improvements on the unit while you're still paying rent. Improvements allow them to raise the rent more than the standard amount for when a rent-stabilized apartment changes hands. Usually this costs them some time not collecting rent on the unit. You don't want a situation where you pay rent while they're "looking for a new tenant" but are really renovating the apartment. It really all comes down to your relationship with the landlord, and whether you can trust them (you usually can't).

    Take lots of photos of every part of the apartment before you turn over the keys.
  • dmhbklyn
    dmhbklyn
    I just ended my lease as scheduled and asshat still doesn't want to give me my deposit back.

    I do think you're liable until end of lease, so you could technically owe much more than your deposit.

    I'd try the direct approach. Explain to them that you need to leave due to emergency, you will leave the apartment in good condition, etc. and see what happens. They could end up being happy you are leaving early so they can jack up the rent if it's under market.

    If you get them to agree verbally, immediately put it in writing and in a non-aggressive way say that you've documented what you've both agreed to and think it's best to put it in writing.
  • pitu
    pitu
    What you are bound by is whatever you both signed in the lease, which probably doesn't have a 30 day escape clause. You didn't say how they reacted to your giving notice, but like people have said already, you have to talk to them and see what they are going to do. Maybe they don't feel like looking for a new tenant during the holidays. They are totally in their rights to keep your deposit as January's rent, and sue you for the rest, so don't mess around.
    On the other hand, they could be sympathetic and go for a smooth transition without holding you accountable for the lease . . . talk to them!
    Have they shown the place? Do you know anyone to take over your lease? I was in that position once, and it only worked 'cause someone's sister's friend took the apt and the landlord was satisfied with that situation.

    Good luck -- and hope your family emergency works out okay.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Flexichick wrote: I just ended my lease as scheduled and asshat still doesn't want to give me my deposit back.

    I do think you're liable until end of lease, so you could technically owe much more than your deposit.

    I'd try the direct approach. Explain to them that you need to leave due to emergency, you will leave the apartment in good condition, etc. and see what happens. They could end up being happy you are leaving early so they can jack up the rent if it's under market.

    If you get them to agree verbally, immediately put it in writing and in a non-aggressive way say that you've documented what you've both agreed to and think it's best to put it in writing.
    That's a good idea.

    In the end, if the landlord is being unreasonable and wants you to pay until the end of the lease no matter what, you should definitely hold onto the keys so that s/he doesn't have access to the apartment until the lease is up.
  • booklaw
    booklaw
    In addition to the fact that you are liable for the remainder of the lease (until the landlord, through reasonable effort, finds a new tenant at equal or better monthly rental), you have an additional problem: brownstone Brooklyn rental rates tend to be higher in the summer than in the winter.

    By leaving in the winter, you are in all probability forcing the landlord to accept a lower monthly rental rate than he would have been able to obtain had the lease ended as scheduled, in the summer.

    If I were the landlord I would keep the security deposit for that reason alone.

    I totally agree with the posters who urged you to explain the true circumstances to the landlord, so as to make yourself as sympathetic as possible, rather than allowing yourself to be perceived as an irresponsible person who arbitrarily chose to disregard a legally binding obligation.

    I don't think keeping the keys would help you... once you stop paying rent I would think the landlord is entitled to use his own keys or to have a locksmith break the lock so as to assess the condition and status of the apartment.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    booklaw wrote: I don't think keeping the keys would help you... once you stop paying rent I would think the landlord is entitled to use his own keys or to have a locksmith break the lock so as to assess the condition and status of the apartment.
    I was suggesting keeping the keys only in the situation where you're stuck continuing to pay rent for the remainder of the lease (as you're technically obligated to do). Then the landlord has no right to access your apartment except for emergencies.

    If you just stopped paying rent (you'd be liable, but the landlord wouldn't have an easy time collecting it from you in another state), I agree that the landlord could access your apartment and you could kiss your deposit goodbye.
  • innocent x
    innocent x
    Mamacita wrote: the longer you stay there the less deposit you get back. My last place deducted carpet cleaning and a other misc. things and we didn't get much of our deposit back.
    Is this true? Common experience?
  • drabrabbit
    drabrabbit
    I once had to break a lease and the only concern my landlord had was for lost rent. I helped him in finding a new tenant (obviously the final decision was his but I made myself available for showing the apartment, took out ads) and we parted on good terms. Look at it from the landlords point of view: most people aren't looking to screw you over (flexi's old landlord aside) but they rely on money coming in every month from your unit. Have a conversation, address each others concerns.
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    as long as you explain to them whats going on, they should give you the money back. i gave one of my tenants who had to leave early. just common courtesy.

    but some people just want to make life more difficult for everyone.
  • barefoot
    barefoot
    Update:

    Landlord does not want to refund the security deposit to us. I think the circumstances definitely allow for common courtesy here (thanks armchair) and they just don't want to do it.

    I think they're dragging their feet on this one...We notified them on Nov 7 that we needed to leave by end of December; realtor just came here on Dec 14th to photograph and list the place.

    If you want to take a look, here it is:
    http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1500036

    When we notified the owners, we were very upfront about our reasons for leaving- owners were very sympathetic over the phone but completely uncommunicative as to how they wished to handle ending the lease, even after I requested they provide guidance. I'd be willing to help them find a new tenant- I'm sure there are ppl who would be interested.

    Carnivore- it's not rent stabilized as far as I can tell- it was newly renovated in 2003 when we moved in- a 1+bedroom at 2600/mo...this is only 300 more than what we are paying now. No need to renovate.

    I am going to keep trying here but my new question is:
    Why would they insist on keeping the additional $500 for the pet deposit too? Our one small dog hasn't caused a lick of damage- but they haven't agreed to even refund that because "we broke the lease."

    PS- We "broke" the lease because my mother is dying (ovarian cancer) and we are moving to ALABAMA to be with her during these last few months so she doesn't go it alone. It's not as if we got a sweet deal to buy a place on PPW. Thanks to all who wish us well...we will need the positive thoughts in 2008.
  • roppongi_girl
    roppongi_girl
    That really sucks. Who do you think is behind this - the adult child "manager" or the parent landlord? If it's the manager, I'd try appealing to the landlord.

    The best you can do is explain your situation, your willingness to help them re-rent the apartment and hope that they have some decency.

    Also check tenant.net and see if anybod has other advise - but I think you are legally bound through end of lease.

    Good luck to you and I hope this gets settled because it sounds like you have enough stress in your life right now.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    If they're holding you liable for the rest of the lease, they have no grounds to hold your deposit, pet or otherwise, unless there's damage to the apartment. If they're holding the deposit, but are going to allow you to break the lease early, they may just consider it a penalty for their hassle. It's a dick move, especially considering the circumstances, but I think it's within their legal rights. If I were you, if they're not going to hold you accountable for the rest of the lease, I'd cut my losses, advise others not to do business with this person, and leave it at that.

    I'm sorry about your Mom. I wish you well in Alabama.
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    I wish you good luck :). if they decide to keep deposit, i would suggest you over stay a month to make that month back don't give them the keys screw them.
  • barefoot
    barefoot
    Flexi: I think that it does have more to do with their child/manager- she's extremely volatile and has been unnecessarily intimidating to us and to other tenants in the building over the last several years. The parents have given her this responsibility of managing the 3 other tenants in exchange for her inhabiting the garden apartment. (Not a bad deal for a 32yo).

    I understand the legal bind- that we signed the lease through June- but this is a very unusual circumstance and I think that we are being raked through the coals just because it's an inconvenient time for them to re-rent the place.

    Thanks to everyone for being supportive. Will take a look at tenant.net and hope for a better outcome. I will post back with more updates, if you all are interested.
  • agagliano
    agagliano
    I'd go straight to the landlord and try to tell them your story. I had a situation with an adult child becoming involved, and my relationship with his mom helped keep him somewhat in check (until she died)
  • barefoot
    barefoot
    Thanks Flexi- we're being as open with the landlord as we can, but they are rather protective of the child.

    I think I recall reading about your situation- you posted about it here, right? Your situation sounded much worse than this- even though it's more than I can bear right now. I do appreciate your advice.

    Will miss this community, that's for sure!
  • localdude
    localdude
    yep, I tried to stop posting details for a variety of reasons, but he is an extroadinary asshat.
  • barefoot
    barefoot
    Not that I can turn back the clock here- but what if I had just not paid the rent for the month of December? (New phrase for me, but "live out the deposit?") Today several people told us that it's relatively common.

    Should I have not paid my rent?
  • lefki
    lefki
    Nope...you are still breaking the lease early. Some people live out the deposit when they are ending their lease as scheduled. If they want to go after you for the remainder of the lease, that unpaid rent would just be more money they could get from you
  • pitu
    pitu
    Flexichick wrote: Nope...you are still breaking the lease early. Some people live out the deposit when they are ending their lease as scheduled. If they want to go after you for the remainder of the lease, that unpaid rent would just be more money they could get from you
    Yeah, that kind of thing sounds like it could be the *tipping point* to piss someone off enough to go after you for the full term of the lease. You signed a contract, and should honor it. What if tables were turned and they were trying to kick you out of the apt six months early to house a sick relative? Legal contracts are there to protect both parties.
  • scarlett
    scarlett
    I know it would be a hassle from out of state, and you will have plenty to deal with (my prayers for your family), but did you consider subleasing through the end of the lease?
  • barefoot
    barefoot
    Scarlett- I don't believe that we are allowed to do this. The owners never suggested this as an option and I think it's written against in the lease.

    Also- thanks for the reality check on not paying this month's rent. It was against my inclination to do so, but we started feeling a little like suckers for paying it now that they refuse to give us back the deposit. Glad we stayed on the level anyway. As I said at the beginning of my post, I didn't want to do anything to attract retaliation for leaving early.

    Turns out someone is coming by tonight to take a look at it- if they're able to rent it, then perhaps they'll refund the deposit (if only to be decent! I'm keeping my hopes up)
  • brooklynpotter
    brooklynpotter
    barefoot, you have more than enough on your plate.

    right or wrong, this is what your landlord is doing. do you really need this stress right now? is that $$ worth making a really hard time even harder?

    this is not my business, but if you're paying that much $$ for an apt., live on montgomery place, and were able to put down that pet deposit, you must be in a good financial position.

    cut your losses. don't give it another thought, and just go when it's time. you don't need this right now and for what, in the end, a couple grand? in the scheme of things that's bupkus. just pack and go.

    best of luck to you.
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