Major Heating Issues- How Would You Handle?
I live on the 1st floor of a Brownstone, it's just me & the landlord's family in the building. Last winter I had heating issues, I called a few times, sent a few e-mails, I kind of let it go. This year, it's either gotten worse or my patience has lessened. Nine time sout of ten, at any given point in the day, it's about 63 degrees in my apartment. I have sent multiple e-mails, left phone messages and now hope to schedule a face-to-face to discuss this. Usually, there is a temporary fix, like the heat is ok for a week or whatever. I'm thisclose to calling 311. Any thoughts on this situation?
Comments
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call 311.
or, call your landlord, tell him/her that it's freezing and much as you've tried to work it out with him/her it hasn't worked out and if it doesn't get better by tomorrow morning you're calling 311. -
here's the law in NYC...
Time of If Outside Temp. Inside Temp must
Day is less than: be more than:
6:00 am - 10:00 pm 55° 68°
10:00 pm - 6:00 am 40° 55° -
Is the landlord a dick? Cause you'll be the dick if you call 311 about the heat when it's just you and the LL in the building. Just knock on his door, say you're freezing, please turn the heat up.
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This sounds exactly like our situation last winter - except we are fortunate enough to have a great landlord. Since we don't have access to our thermostat, we are at his mercy
Actually, he had no idea that it was so cold in our apartment. He thought that it was too warm since we are closer to the pipes and because his thermostat was set high. It turned out that there was actually something wrong with the heat and the entire system had to be flushed out (this took a few hours after it was diagnosed). After that was done, though, the heat has worked great and this winter we are nice and toasty. Perhaps something similar can be done in your situation. -
I have left about 15 messages and each time the heat gets turned on for that time. It's not consistent. As I write, it's 6:20 am and 64 degrees in the apartment. Multiple e-mails also.
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Is there anyway you can speak to him directly - ask him to come down so he can see how cold it is.
If that doesn't work then tell him his heat might be working inefficiently and that he's wasting money. -
I have made that request, I haven't heard back. I have given, often, examples of the temps in my apartment. There are no radiators, the heat comes out of the floor.
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Innocent X wrote: Is the landlord a dick? Cause you'll be the dick if you call 311 about the heat when it's just you and the LL in the building. Just knock on his door, say you're freezing, please turn the heat up.
from the OP's posts, does it sound this way?
your posting is really, really caustic. -
My point is that just like in grade school, it's never cool to tattle unless absolutely necessary. I lived in a brownstone with just me and the landlord and I would hate to be in a position of having called 311 on him. It just seems like it'll start a vicious retaliation cycle. But...it seems like the landlord isn't listening. So maybe 311 is the only option. But I think I'd give it a face to face try before going that route.
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If the temperature is really an issue for you, you might just consider moving. It sounds extreme but I did (heat was one of a couple of big issues) and am nice and toasty now as I sit in my living room.
After a huge hassle with a landlord that was truly incompetent at maintaining a home (his included) plus cheap, we moved to a new place. The old place was so cold that most of my houseplants that have lived well and moved all over for many years died! When we looked at new places, I always made sure to talk to the current tenant and/or others in the same building about heat and how the landlord handled problems in general.
IMHO, living in a house with the owner is often asking for trouble. If you spend much time at home and care about things like it being comfortably warm or the place is at all in disrepair you will always be at odds with the LL and have to see them often. -
bklynnewbie wrote: I have left about 15 messages and each time the heat gets turned on for that time. It's not consistent. As I write, it's 6:20 am and 64 degrees in the apartment. Multiple e-mails also.
Looks like the LL is in the right then, because as Live to Travel pointed outhere's the law in NYC...
6:20am at 64 degrees is within the legal limits. Not that doesn't mean it's cold! but you have no right to call 311 on the LL. If he's staying within the legal limits but you find you need a warmer place in general then I'd look into moving. Sad but true, either that or make friends with the LL and try to find some sympathy within him.
Time of If Outside Temp. Inside Temp must
Day is less than: be more than:
6:00 am - 10:00 pm 55° 68°
10:00 pm - 6:00 am 40° 55°
I sorry you have to deal with this. This is coming from a woman that has no body heat, just ask the boyfriend
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The way that poster put that info. up is misleading- the law is that between 6am-10pm the heat must be at a MINIMUM of 68 when it is < 55 degrees out.
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Mamacita wrote: [quote=bklynnewbie]I have left about 15 messages and each time the heat gets turned on for that time. It's not consistent. As I write, it's 6:20 am and 64 degrees in the apartment. Multiple e-mails also.
Looks like the LL is in the right then, because as Live to Travel pointed outhere's the law in NYC...
6:20am at 64 degrees is within the legal limits. Not that doesn't mean it's cold! but you have no right to call 311 on the LL.
Time of If Outside Temp. Inside Temp must
Day is less than: be more than:
6:00 am - 10:00 pm 55° 68°
10:00 pm - 6:00 am 40° 55°
It's actually not within the legal limits. The chart above may be a little difficult to read, what it means is that between the hours of 6am and 10pm, if the outside temp is 55 or lower, the inside temp must be 68 or higher. So 64 at 6:20 is 4 degrees below the minimum.
I don't know what it's like during the rest of the day but early morning cold may be because the thermostat is set to kick on a little later. Does your LL know that you are up at 6:20 each morning? -
Opps, read it wrong.:oops:
Ben, makes a good point though, does you landlord know you get up very early? My radiators kick in at 7 something weekdays, which is good because they make a cacophony of noises that can wake the dead. Any earlier and I'd get no sleep. -
I have advised them of the time that I wake up. I find that irrelevant though, law states from 6am until 10pm it must be 68 degrees, at least, in the apartment. Thanks for all the thoughts!!!!!!
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I find it unusual that the LL is satisfied with the amount of heat but the tenant is not. Wouldn't most LL want to be warm and toasty also?
It is rare to see heating violations issued in buildings where the owner is one of the occupants
If the LL's apartment is warm and the tenants apartment is not, then the problem is inherently a mechanical piping one, not a "thermostat setting" one. It will only be solved with a physical improvement.
In addition, although 64d is slightly less than the legal 68d, I don't think scientifically this constitues "freezing". When you are naked it may feel cool, but no one is going to die from it.
Remember, until the heating laws were enacted in the early 1900's, each tenant was responsible to make his/her's own heat with his/her's own coal. Mankind survived that without any scars. -
Thanks for your thoughts, are you a LL by any chance? Because 68 is the MINIMUM it should be, and 64 is cold. It's a problem when I am wearing 2 layers of clothing inside.
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wirenut wrote: I find it unusual that the LL is satisfied with the amount of heat but the tenant is not. Wouldn't most LL want to be warm and toasty also?
Heat rises.
It is rare to see heating violations issued in buildings where the owner is one of the occupants -
I live on all three floors of my house. The first floor is cold, the second is comfy and the top can be too warm with the radiators in a fully open mode. We have found the best results are with the heat set at 68, if we raise it to try to get the first floor warmer, you actually get less heat there because the middle floor is warmer and the heat shuts off quickly.
You are probably over an unheated basement. Put rugs down,
ask the landlord to make sure both hatches are sealed and the access
area to them blocked with a window or even one of those plastic
stretchy windows you can get from a hardware store and install with a hair dryer.
Ask your landlord to bleed your radiators and to check to make sure the valves are open to give you maximum heat. Make sure that your furniture is not blocking the radiators.
I have a new efficient furnace that throws off very little heat to warm the basement, I had a radiator installed to take the chill off the basement and it increaed the comfort level on the 1st floor.
Your landlord probably has the heat set at 70-72 and that is the temperature the city will look at if they respond to a complaint by you.
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It's a good thing we all keep coal handy to deal with these situations!
what happened over a hundred years ago is really not relevant now.
I lived on the third floor of a brownstone and the landlord lived on the bottom two floors. It doesn't sound like the difference between 64 (or 63 or 62) degrees would be that significant as opposed to 68, but it IS.
Those few degrees make an apartment cold. It may not be "freezing" but it's cold.
Every year I would leave my landlord notes or call him. He'd say, well it takes awhile to get it right each year. But it was sort of a constant struggle. He would respond although it would never quite crack 68 but get close enough. One time, I called upset and next thing I knew the heat was blaring. It felt so nice. Then, a few days later, it went back to how it was. I said, 'could you do what you did that other time?" He said, "I didn't do anything differently." Which was quite hard to believe.
He was okay but I think heating costs play into it and so they decide they can live with it that way. You decide you cannot.
In my first apartment of my own in Manhattan, I had my own thermostat. I didn't realize what a luxury that was at the time!
good luck -
(also, wirenut, if OP had the means to add coal to the furnace, and that was the agreement, I'm sure he would do that. ... pls!)wirenut wrote: I find it unusual that the LL is satisfied with the amount of heat but the tenant is not. Wouldn't most LL want to be warm and toasty also?
It is rare to see heating violations issued in buildings where the owner is one of the occupants
If the LL's apartment is warm and the tenants apartment is not, then the problem is inherently a mechanical piping one, not a "thermostat setting" one. It will only be solved with a physical improvement.
In addition, although 64d is slightly less than the legal 68d, I don't think scientifically this constitues "freezing". When you are naked it may feel cool, but no one is going to die from it.
Remember, until the heating laws were enacted in the early 1900's, each tenant was responsible to make his/her's own heat with his/her's own coal. Mankind survived that without any scars. -
withhold rent?
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Well, my LL will be sealing some potential areas of "leaks" soon. I will attempt a direct face-to-face at that time. The LL has never stated that they are keeping the heat on 68, 70, whatever- so I'm sure they are not! It's almost 2pm Sat. and it's 65.5 degrees. Pure sadness when I just left a friend's apartment in Manhattan and it was 80 in there
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bklynnewbie wrote: Well, my LL will be sealing some potential areas of "leaks" soon. I will attempt a direct face-to-face at that time. The LL has never stated that they are keeping the heat on 68, 70, whatever- so I'm sure they are not! It's almost 2pm Sat. and it's 65.5 degrees. Pure sadness when I just left a friend's apartment in Manhattan and it was 80 in there
Honestly, I'd rather have it 65 than 80. -
Innocent X wrote: My point is that just like in grade school, it's never cool to tattle unless absolutely necessary. I lived in a brownstone with just me and the landlord and I would hate to be in a position of having called 311 on him. It just seems like it'll start a vicious retaliation cycle. But...it seems like the landlord isn't listening. So maybe 311 is the only option. But I think I'd give it a face to face try before going that route.
At the same time, it's never cool to be a wuss sucker who is paying top dollar each month to live in an apartment that he or she cannot be comfortable in.
If you bought a MacBook from the Apple store in Soho and it was missing its "x" and "h" buttons and the store's manager ignored your request for an exchange, would you not contact Apple headquarters? -
Obviously no one is heating with coal any more. It was meant just to help keep things in perspective. And yes, I am a landlord.
As far as enforcement is concerned, when HPD comes to check a complaint they check the actual area of complaint with the "official" thermometer. If it's not within the legal guidlines, it's a violation regardless of what the thermostat is set for or how hot it is in the other apartments. A heat violation is taken seriously and they will come down heavy on the LL. However, many tenants have trouble accepting the heat levels allowed by the law. At $3.50 a gallon, most LL are not going to overheat the building.
I hear differing opinions as to which floor of a 3 story is the warmest.
The point is that any heating system sould be adjusted to give even heat unless it is separately zoned with individual zone thermostats. It can be done but some plumbers are not knowledgeable enough. (Technically heating is not the plumbing trade but "steam fitters" trade)
What type of heating system is in the building? steam is most common in old buildings, next hot water, more rarely hot air?
If you have steam you probably have the old-fashion (but great) ordinary cast iron radiators near each window.
Try this as an interim solution: Take an ordinary summer fan - the box type that is about 30" x 30" with the carrying handle
Place it facing the radiator. Attach a strap-on aquastat to the part of the radiator farthest from the valve. (An aquastat is a heat activated switch) Wire the aquastat to the fan and plug it in. When the radiator gets hot, the fan will come on automatically and heat up the room very quickly.
You can increase the average room temperature by 5-10 degrees, but your high and lows with broaden depending on how long each steam cycle is. This at least gives you some control.
If you need help rigging it up PM me.
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