attacked and mugged...
Just wanted to let everyone know what happened to me earlier this evening on Franklin and St Marks.
I was mugged just before midnight on St Marks just east of Franklin. Some kids (16?) were walking up Franklin behind me, and I thought they might be following me, but one ran up ahead of me -- it seemed like he was just playing a game or something, so I didn't do anything.
Well, I should have trusted my instincts. He wasn't playing, even though he ran ahead and turned down St Marks, and met up with his friends, who were on bikes, on St Marks. When I got to my doorstep, I was attacked and mugged.
In retrospect, what's most disturbing about this is that these kids knew -- or at least, they seemed to know -- which street I'd be turning down. The one turned down my street before me, and met up with his friends on bikes on that street.
I was lucky. I didn't give them my wallet, and they only got my cell phone. They threatened to use a knife but I didn't see one. There was a not inconsiderable scuffle, so if they'd had one, I think they'd have used it, but who knows.
The cops who took the report indicated that there's been a rise in juvenile crime, particularly on Franklin, and particularly after 11 PM.
Be safe and aware, people!
I was mugged just before midnight on St Marks just east of Franklin. Some kids (16?) were walking up Franklin behind me, and I thought they might be following me, but one ran up ahead of me -- it seemed like he was just playing a game or something, so I didn't do anything.
Well, I should have trusted my instincts. He wasn't playing, even though he ran ahead and turned down St Marks, and met up with his friends, who were on bikes, on St Marks. When I got to my doorstep, I was attacked and mugged.
In retrospect, what's most disturbing about this is that these kids knew -- or at least, they seemed to know -- which street I'd be turning down. The one turned down my street before me, and met up with his friends on bikes on that street.
I was lucky. I didn't give them my wallet, and they only got my cell phone. They threatened to use a knife but I didn't see one. There was a not inconsiderable scuffle, so if they'd had one, I think they'd have used it, but who knows.
The cops who took the report indicated that there's been a rise in juvenile crime, particularly on Franklin, and particularly after 11 PM.
Be safe and aware, people!
Comments
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Sorry to hear your story. Unfortunately, the kids around here are not raised well.
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Let me rephrase that by saying "some of the kids" around here are not raised well.
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It's important to be aware of your surroundings. It sounds like these kids knew where you were going because they had cased you earlier in the day or that week. If you think you are being cased, look the person who is casing you in the eye. That lets him know that you know he's there and he'll go off to find an easier target.
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lilbangladesh wrote: If you think you are being cased, look the person who is casing you in the eye. That lets him know that you know he's there and he'll go off to find an easier target.
Day late and a dollar short. -
the Franklin knuckleheads have been on a tear the past few weeks. They must sense the end is coming so they're just raising as much hell as possible before either being forced out of the nabe or it settles down enough and gets enough of a police presence that they won't be able to get away with this crap.
OP, sorry about the mugging, that sucks. -
guest2:20 wrote: the Franklin knuckleheads have been on a tear the past few weeks. They must sense the end is coming so they're just raising as much hell as possible before either being forced out of the nabe or it settles down enough and gets enough of a police presence that they won't be able to get away with this crap.
Yeah well while I hate to break it to you 'pioneers,' the "nabe" you think you're converting is much, much larger and more hostile than you realize. Crown Heights, unlike the Park Slope or Williamsburg of the past, is not an isolated rough area. The thug population in Crown Heights runs all the way into Flatbush for miles, Brownsville, etc. The 'frontier' you're dealing with is huge, and the crime will continue and probably escalate every step of the way. These young kids with no money and no future are not going to simply throw in the towel once Franny's and Dizzy's open up their Franklin Ave branches.
OP, sorry about the mugging, that sucks.
Not to mention, Crown Heights and especially Franklin Ave was and still is one of NY's major drug dealing hubs, with some pretty deep roots that go back probably to the '70s. Try looking up FAP Franklin Ave Posse. They aren't going away overnight. It will take maybe 7-10 years AT LEAST to get that element completely out of the area, and that's if the cops have the will and manpower to do it. -
you're right, restless native. obviously we should just give up on any sense of expecting a certain quality of life.
*end sarcasm* -
Whatchuwant wrote: [quote=lilbangladesh]If you think you are being cased, look the person who is casing you in the eye. That lets him know that you know he's there and he'll go off to find an easier target.
Day late and a dollar short.
Oh yes, and I suppose I shouldn't give advice as to how to prevent another attack. Everyone else should just walk around oblivious until they get mugged again.
The fact is, we do have these hooligans here and it's a damn good way to protect yourself, because the one thing they are looking for is easy victims. Being aware of your surroundings make you much less of an easy victim. -
letaon wrote: Just wanted to let everyone know what happened to me earlier this evening on Franklin and St Marks.
Like you didn't see that coming? -
MeredithB wrote: Like you didn't see that coming?
Heya MeredithB, you might want to quote who you're responding to, or at least make it clear in some way who it is that was directed towards. -
Restless Native wrote: It will take maybe 7-10 years AT LEAST to get that element completely out of the area, and that's if the cops have the will and manpower to do it.
Dollar sez it'll be quicker than that. What you say about the nabe is true to a degree but I think you're comparing it to Park Slope when the more accurate comparison maybe to look at Fort Greene or parts of Williamsburg.
I never lived in those areas but the change on Dekalb and Myrtle (Murder Ave) are shocking compared to 7 years ago and even the South streets in Billyburg (my parents would not stop the car at stoplights when I was a kid) are vastly different.
The tipping point may be that the are aroud Franklin has a lot of smaller 1 or 2 family homes and smaller tenements - so they'll change over and fill up with your "pioneers" sooner than you'd expect.
Add in the new condo construction, new businesses and basically you'll have a new, more vocal, comparatively more affluent, arguably better politically connected/savvy new residents coupled with older residents who will be excited to finally see a noticeable reduction in crime.
The thugs run riot because the city doesn't give a shit about a poor nabe's residents. The city doesn't give a shit because they're poor. Nabe gets richer - policing gets better. Also the repercussions for thugs for fucking over richer people are more onerous than when the thugs fuck over poor people. So even if the thugs don't give a shit about you or themselves - they get locked up longer - which increases the likelihood that when they get out whatever support system they may have had is gone. -
letaon wrote: you're right, restless native. obviously we should just give up on any sense of expecting a certain quality of life.
Sorry, I just can't understand people who move to Crown Heights and then complain and act surprised about the crime.. just can't wrap my mind around it. It's like moving to North Dakota and complaining about snow. If I moved to Franklin Ave and then went crying to my family about getting beat up, etc, they'd look at me like I was nuts. Different way of thinking I guess, us dopey natives are still worn out from holding down the south Park Slope fort up through the Crack '80s.
*end sarcasm*
If your goal is to move in and change the neighborhood (although I can't understand why anyone would bother when there are just so many more nicer, safer, cheaper, better looking, and more convenient neighborhoods in the city) THEN maybe I can see the motivation.. otherwise I'll never get it.
BTW, Williamsburg was never really that violent of a neighborhood (as long as you weren't involved with drugs).. Crown Heights on the other hand.. :idea: -
I grew up in Boston in the 70s. While I'm sure Crown Heights was a hell of a lot worse in the 70s than Boston was, Crown Heights now is a paradise compared to how things were when I was a kid. Yes, there are areas of the city with less crime. But I can't afford to live there. I ended up here because I needed an affordable apartment quickly that didn't have a commute from hell. I didn't come here to "clean up the neighborhood" but since I AM here, I'm happy to help my neighbors in this effort, most of whom have been involved in the neighborhood cleanup effort for many years. This is an indigenous movement, not newbies coming in complaining about crime. Longtermers aren't fatalistic like you and really would like to save their neighborhood from persistent crime, and since most are homeowners, they have more of a stake in it than more mobile "newbies".
There are many wonderful things about this neighborhood that are worth saving and worth cleaning up the crime. Throwing up your hands is stupid. -
Restless Native wrote: [quote=letaon]you're right, restless native. obviously we should just give up on any sense of expecting a certain quality of life.
Sorry, I just can't understand people who move to Crown Heights and then complain and act surprised about the crime.. just can't wrap my mind around it. It's like moving to North Dakota and complaining about snow. If I moved to Franklin Ave and then went crying to my family about getting beat up, etc, they'd look at me like I was nuts. Different way of thinking I guess, us dopey natives are still worn out from holding down the south Park Slope fort up through the Crack '80s.
*end sarcasm*
Again with the assumptions, RN. The original poster said NOTHING about how long he has lived in Crown Heights. Granted, he very well may be new here -- a lot of folks are -- but how about asking people first instead of leaping to conclusions? And I don't care WHERE you live -- you have every reason to be unhappy and to say something about it if you're a victim of crime. It may be more common in Crown Heights than some other areas. Comparing violent crime to snow is a bogus comparison, and your constant attacks on people who - gasp! - are unhappy about being victimized are tired, unsympathetic, and mean-spirited.
MOD NOTE: An off-topic complaint was split off and given its own thread on the Ask Brooklynian board here.
-C -
I just want to say to RN that I neither "complain[ed]" nor "act[ed] surprised" about being mugged.
Read the first and last sentences of my post again:letaon wrote: Just wanted to let everyone know what happened to me earlier this evening...
The purpose of my posting was to (a) let others in the community know that this had happened, since some of them may not know, and because many of them may want to know, and (b) point out what was, to me, a particularly disturbing aspect of it: that it appeared to have a level of premeditation -- something I did not anticipate, which led me to fall victim to a crime I otherwise likely would not have.
...
Be safe and aware, people!
That's what neighbors do on a community bulletin board. We share information.
The purpose of my post was not to express surprise, nor to complain, and I don't think anything in it really evinces that, to anyone but an already jaded reader. I am a relative "newbie" to Crown Heights, but I've been here long enough to know that crime does happen.
I do, however, believe that every American, from the Upper East Side to South Central Los Angeles, deserves to be able to walk down the street without fear of physical violence. I don't think we should ever be "unsurprised" to walk down the street and face an assault.
Unlike snow (and I've been to North Dakota numerous times in Winter in which it didn't snow, thank you very much), crime is a product of human societies and human actions. We can acknowledge that crime happens, and that it might likely happen to us, but that does not mean that we should take it sitting down, and accept it as a normal part of life.
As Edmund Burke said: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -
I'm sure it was very scary and I'm glad you're ok. Thanks for posting
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restless, what nyc neighborhoods are cheaper, safer, and more convenient? i'm curious.
and why does it sound like you're on the criminals' side? seems like you think they have a right to assault and rob people because it's been going on in crown heights for a long time, and those that get robbed have no right to complain about it. -
Restless Native wrote: If your goal is to move in and change the neighborhood (although I can't understand why anyone would bother when there are just so many more nicer, safer, cheaper, better looking, and more convenient neighborhoods in the city) THEN maybe I can see the motivation.. otherwise I'll never get it.
Food for thought:
There are plenty of things that I can't understand why anyone would want to do -- willingly go into a war zone, jump into a freezing river to rescue a kid, stay up 32 hours in a row in an emergency room doing emergency surgery on a stabbing victim...
I'll tell you, though, even though I don't understand why they'd do it, I'm still damn glad they are doing it. -
Crown Heights is a HUGE nabe. When I ask old timers in the Franklin St Marks area, they tell me that this youth crime phenomenon is new. They didnt have these kind of problems in the past. I live in this part of CH and love it. Moved here from Manhattan with family. I see the nabe changing for the better and I am not fatalistc and assume that since I moved out here I expect to get mugged. The community will clean up this area, block by block and make sure it is safe for all. Interestingly, a month ago our tenants (not black) were harrassed (not mugged) by some kids on franklin. when they reported it to the police the police told them that CH was a dangerous nabe and they shouldnt be living there. Can you believe that . This is unacceptable. Youth crime is unacceptable. If the parents arent watching their delinquent kids you can be assured that the community will be coming together to make sure that when these kids commit crimes, they end up in jail. Some of these kids seem cocky, they keep doing it because they think they can get away with muggings/robberies. A group of kids linked to a series of muggings in this area were recently caught by the police. That is great. Hopefully it will serve as a wake up call to them, their parents etc etc.
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"Yeah well while I hate to break it to you 'pioneers,' the "nabe" you think you're converting is much, much larger and more hostile than you realize. Crown Heights, unlike the Park Slope or Williamsburg of the past, is not an isolated rough area. The thug population in Crown Heights runs all the way into Flatbush for miles, Brownsville, etc. The 'frontier' you're dealing with is huge, and the crime will continue and probably escalate every step of the way."
YAWN. I've owned my house in Crown Heights since 2001 and before that lived in Prospect Heights and Park Slope (where I rented). I grew up in East New York (where my parents had a house and still live). I have NEVER been close to being mugged. I'm not saying that crimes don't occur in ENY or Crown Heights (or Park Slope or Prospect Heights), but Crown Heights certainly isn't the criminal "frontier" the poster above makes it out to be. I can see him/her cowering in his/her apartment right now, afraid to look or venturte outside. For the record, I don't feel more (or less) safe in Crown Heights than I did in Park Slope. In fact, I was living in Park Slope when a woman was stabbed in the back with a knife one one of the supposedly "safest" streets, and Prospect Heights (not Crown Heights or ENY) was the last place I recall witnessing an honest-to-goodness fist fight in the street. ENY is definitely "rougher" than the other places, but as always, if you keep your eyes open and act like you belong, you will be OK, which is true just about anywhere. Anything can happen any anytime. The poster above is so over the top and just plain wrong about the state of things it's laughable. -
Anonymous wrote:
lol, thanks for the tip and advice Butch, I will try to apply them from now on when I 'dare' to 'wander' outside of my apartment from here on out.
YAWN. I've owned my house in Crown Heights since 2001 and before that lived in Prospect Heights and Park Slope (where I rented). I grew up in East New York (where my parents had a house and still live). I have NEVER been close to being mugged. I'm not saying that crimes don't occur in ENY or Crown Heights (or Park Slope or Prospect Heights), but Crown Heights certainly isn't the criminal "frontier" the poster above makes it out to be. I can see him/her cowering in his/her apartment right now, afraid to look or venturte outside. For the record, I don't feel more (or less) safe in Crown Heights than I did in Park Slope. In fact, I was living in Park Slope when a woman was stabbed in the back with a knife one one of the supposedly "safest" streets, and Prospect Heights (not Crown Heights or ENY) was the last place I recall witnessing an honest-to-goodness fist fight in the street. ENY is definitely "rougher" than the other places, but as always, if you keep your eyes open and act like you belong, you will be OK, which is true just about anywhere. Anything can happen any anytime. The poster above is so over the top and just plain wrong about the state of things it's laughable.
The post I wrote above was not tailored towards a BK native, but rather towards those whose vulnerable body language and lack of common sense make them targets. If you are a BK native then what I said needn't apply, but you seem to have missed that point.
My take on Crown Heights doesn't come from interpretations of my dreams, I was on the sidewalks from 9yrs old from here to Franklin Ave, and a lot of the people I grew up with still do 'business' over there, so I probably know just a tad more than you do about the undercurrent present in that neighborhood - especially seeing as you're a recent Park Slope renter.
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queencallipygos wrote:
Comparing Crown Heights migrant yups to GI's and rescue workers?
Food for thought:
There are plenty of things that I can't understand why anyone would want to do -- willingly go into a war zone, jump into a freezing river to rescue a kid, stay up 32 hours in a row in an emergency room doing emergency surgery on a stabbing victim...
I'll tell you, though, even though I don't understand why they'd do it, I'm still damn glad they are doing it.
Wow, all I can say is Ohhhhhh K, I'm rrrright with ya there on that one!! :shock: :shock: -
letaon wrote: I just want to say to RN that I neither "complain[ed]" nor "act[ed] surprised" about being mugged.
Yeah that comment wasn't directed towards you, but rather others who act shocked by it. You were simply reporting what had happened to you. It just so happens that my rant fell into this thread.
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Anonymous wrote:
My impression when someone writes a post like the several from RN upthread is that it is deliberate obfuscation and misrepresentation motivated by a resentment of "yups" as he calls them (whatever he imagines that to mean) and a conscious or subconscious attempt to scare off the "yups" by writing about how horrible and threatening the neighborhood is. The impulse behind it is pretty transparent and makes these attempts to scare people laughable."Yeah well while I hate to break it to you 'pioneers,' the "nabe" you think you're converting is much, much larger and more hostile than you realize. Crown Heights, unlike the Park Slope or Williamsburg of the past, is not an isolated rough area. The thug population in Crown Heights runs all the way into Flatbush for miles, Brownsville, etc. The 'frontier' you're dealing with is huge, and the crime will continue and probably escalate every step of the way."
YAWN. I've owned my house in Crown Heights since 2001 and before that lived in Prospect Heights and Park Slope (where I rented). I grew up in East New York (where my parents had a house and still live). I have NEVER been close to being mugged. I'm not saying that crimes don't occur in ENY or Crown Heights (or Park Slope or Prospect Heights), but Crown Heights certainly isn't the criminal "frontier" the poster above makes it out to be. I can see him/her cowering in his/her apartment right now, afraid to look or venturte outside. For the record, I don't feel more (or less) safe in Crown Heights than I did in Park Slope. In fact, I was living in Park Slope when a woman was stabbed in the back with a knife one one of the supposedly "safest" streets, and Prospect Heights (not Crown Heights or ENY) was the last place I recall witnessing an honest-to-goodness fist fight in the street. ENY is definitely "rougher" than the other places, but as always, if you keep your eyes open and act like you belong, you will be OK, which is true just about anywhere. Anything can happen any anytime. The poster above is so over the top and just plain wrong about the state of things it's laughable. -
leet wrote:
You're right, Crown Heights is and has always been a fantastic place to raise a family, and I was simply trying to keep you vibrant, hardworking, charismatic newcomers from finding out about Brooklyn's "Crown Jewel."
My impression when someone writes a post like the several from RN upthread is that it is deliberate obfuscation and misrepresentation motivated by a resentment of "yups" as he calls them (whatever he imagines that to mean) and a conscious or subconscious attempt to scare off the "yups" by writing about how horrible and threatening the neighborhood is. The impulse behind it is pretty transparent and makes these attempts to scare people laughable. Geez, sure can't slip one past you guys, and here I was all this time thinking I was so clever, woops! Think I'll give up and leave Brooklyn's best kept secret to those like you who deserve it. 8) -
1. i don't think anyone on this thread was shocked at someone being mugged.
2. just because there are drug dealers on franklin ave., does that mean crown heights is a bad neighborhood? i don't think so.
3. RN's ability to blame any/everthing on newcomers to the neighborhood is pretty amazing. instead of expressing sympathy to the person that got mugged, which apparently he or she doesnt deserve, you choose to blame the mugging on the VICTIM's poor body language and lack of "street smarts."
4. RN, we get it, you are tough and know the streets. please stop bragging about it every possible chance you get. -
Mod note:
You know, I've warned Restless Native before that the next time he derailed a thread with his anti-newcomer/anti-"yup" rantiness I would split his stuff off into its own thread, and I should have done so here. His "oh, gosh, that wasn't directed at YOU" response to the original poster seems pretty disingenuous. Honestly, the only reason I didn't do so was because I was tired of dealing with him, busy with other things, and couldn't muster up the energy. I apologize to the rest of you for not addressing this more directly.
RN, please stop turning every thread about a specific incident into your personal soapbox for railing against people who have been in the neighborhood for less than 20 years. Next time you derail a thread, it will be split into a separate topic. If you really need a forum where you can complain endlessly about the "pioneers" you might want to consider starting your own blog. -
I think BrooklynSwordStyle said it best about 2 years ago.
BrooklynSwordStyle wrote: Man, this whole nabe has gentrified all to hell. I remember when it was a just cooled mass of magma and noxious gasses. Those days rocked. Only the hard-core lived here, and the vibe was great.
Old school? Fuck that man, we were single celled! I had this kick ass bit of rock, but then these yuppie lung-fish started waddling in on their fancy-pants fin-legs and drove up the cost of everything. I tried dividing myself a few times to share the rent, but then one of me mutated and became a total dick to be around. It's all those damned lung-fishes' fault. If they hadn't moved in then those hairy-assed mammals wouldn't have shown up. Now this place is so lame. -
Restless Native wrote:
Just wanted to say THANK YOU to Restless for posting this, I feel the same way. And this is not geared at the OP or anyone, I'm not looking for a debate I'm just saying I don't get anyone who MOVES to a neighborhood and then consequently decides the neighborhood MUST change to suit the newcomers needs. I moved to Crown Heights, and I liked the way it was when I moved here. I didn't move here anticipating a change, I didn't move here because it's "getting better."
Sorry, I just can't understand people who move to Crown Heights and then complain and act surprised about the crime.. just can't wrap my mind around it. It's like moving to North Dakota and complaining about snow. If I moved to Franklin Ave and then went crying to my family about getting beat up, etc, they'd look at me like I was nuts. Different way of thinking I guess, us dopey natives are still worn out from holding down the south Park Slope fort up through the Crack '80s.
If your goal is to move in and change the neighborhood (although I can't understand why anyone would bother when there are just so many more nicer, safer, cheaper, better looking, and more convenient neighborhoods in the city) THEN maybe I can see the motivation.. otherwise I'll never get it.
BTW, Williamsburg was never really that violent of a neighborhood (as long as you weren't involved with drugs).. Crown Heights on the other hand.. :idea:
I've never been mugged, robbed, chased, harrassed, followed, threatened, yelled at, looked at crooked or anything of the like in Crown Heights. But if I did, like restless said, and I went crying to my parents or ANYbody, they'd tell me "you moved there." And they'd be 100% right. And no it's not siding with criminals, and like I said I'm not looking for some debate I'm just saying that I don't UNDERSTAND at all how someone moves somewhere, and then decides it must change on their account. -
breatheeasy wrote: Just wanted to say THANK YOU to Restless for posting this, I feel the same way. And this is not geared at the OP or anyone, I'm not looking for a debate I'm just saying I don't get anyone who MOVES to a neighborhood and then consequently decides the neighborhood MUST change to suit the newcomers needs. I moved to Crown Heights, and I liked the way it was when I moved here. I didn't move here anticipating a change, I didn't move here because it's "getting better."
Sweet Jesus. This isn't a thread asking for a new bistro or a Whole Foods -- it's discussing the problems associated with random acts of violence in our neighborhood. If you really think it's a problem that any residents, whether "new" or "old" take issue with such things, then I must say I'd rather not have you as a neighbor.
I've never been mugged, robbed, chased, harrassed, followed, threatened, yelled at, looked at crooked or anything of the like in Crown Heights. But if I did, like restless said, and I went crying to my parents or ANYbody, they'd tell me "you moved there." And they'd be 100% right. And no it's not siding with criminals, and like I said I'm not looking for some debate I'm just saying that I don't UNDERSTAND at all how someone moves somewhere, and then decides it must change on their account.
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