attacked and mugged...
Comments
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so, you don't understand someone that moves to a neighborhood, gets mugged or assaulted, and doesn't want that to happen again? and who is running and crying to anyone??? this person just reported it on the board because people like to know what happens in their neighborhood. is that such a foreign concept?
and hey, i like the neighborhood too, but are you saying you want it to stay the same forever? you want the level of street crime that is present right now to persist? if so, why? what offends you, or, what do you not understand about the residents of a neighborhood wanting street crime to decrease?
you should also understand that people's economic situations sometimes dictate where they live. if i had all the money in the world, yea, id probably live somewhere else -- but i dont. people live where they can. and if they want the neighborhood where they live to be safer, there isn't anything wrong with that. -
breatheeasy wrote: ...and like I said I'm not looking for some debate I'm just saying that I don't UNDERSTAND at all how someone moves somewhere, and then decides it must change on their account.
Seriously, WTF. I know you don't want to engage in a debate, so you likely won't, but not wanting to get mugged on the streets that they live on is an example of somebody forcing the neighborhood to "change on their account"?
By your logic, Crown Heights is defined first and foremost as a neighborhood in which its residents are gonna get mnugged and attacked. Is that right? Or maybe just residents who look like they don't "belong" or seem weak?
Old time residents who were born and bred in CH like being on constant, tense lookout for possible knuckleheads every waking moment of the day? Is that it?
By your logic living in Crown Heights is like being in prison? You gotta be hard and ready to kill somebody everytime you step outside your house? Don't look nobody in the eye, don't take shit from anybody, don't accept or do favors for anybody. That's how we're supposed to live?
Making it so that residents don't live under constant threat of attack would be to make Crown Heights a worse neighborhood?
What do you and others who agree with you gain by having CH maintain it's current level of crime and violence? How does it benefit you? If overnight CH reached let's say the relative peacefulness and safety of Brooklyn Heights or the Upper West Side - how would you suffer?
I'm genuinely curious. -
BoogieKnight wrote: What do you and others who agree with you gain by having CH maintain it's current level of crime and violence? How does it benefit you? If overnight CH reached let's say the relative peacefulness and safety of Brooklyn Heights or the Upper West Side - how would you suffer?
More of the dreaded "yups" will want to move there then, driving up prices and pricing many people (especially renters) out of the neighborhood. Safety and rent go hand in hand. A desire by some to keep more well-off people afraid of the neighborhood isn't totally irrational.
I'm genuinely curious. -
glad youre still okay.
those douches will get what they deserved one day. karma is a bitch. -
leteon Im very sorry that this happened to you and Im glad you have kept a positive attitude about the whole thing and I apologize in advance for my following rant and derailment of this thread-
Your home is your castle, your sanctuary and EVERYONE has a right to their own personal safety in the neighborhood they call home.
As for the BS of newcomers vs old timers on crime - you really need to get a grip. Do you really believe that the people who were born and raised in Crown Heights want to have it back to the way it was? Many of these people are working class people who just want a better life for themselves and their family same as the people who are moving in. Lets just tell them hey you mean nothing, your personal safety means nothing and your children do not have a right to play outside without fearing for their lives because its too much change. Lets tell the recent Carribean immigrants sorry you have to go back to your country, you have no right to a better life because you weren't born here. Oh while your at it, lets tell the already underfunded, underserved public school children stop improving your grades, stop making the schools better because that's not how it was before. Or better yet lets tell the families of Chanel Petro Nixon or Carol Simon we are not going to do anything about the crime because the neighborhood will lose its flavor.
I for one am happy that young couples and families are choosing to raise their family in CH and PH. Old and newcomers are working together to bring CH back to its former glory and I for one find the comments - "what do you expect" - to be an affront to their hard work. -
Stacey, FTW!
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Restless Native wrote:
Having grown up around those parts in the 60's and the 70's, I would say that was definitely not the case in the past: mice in my parents brownstone, dog poop, broken glass and garbage in the streets, house break-ins, muggings (including myself-fortunately only a bus pass), bike theft, and lousy schools.
You're right, Crown Heights is and has always been a fantastic place to raise a family
But its nice to hear it's much improved. When's the next brewpub opening?
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The problem with the spate of attacks upon people is that it signals bad things for both newcomers and long time residents. The kids who are committing these crimes don't have any recollection of the 60's & 70's or even of the 80's when crack was king on the PH/CH border. What they see is new people moving into the neighborhood that they perceive to be easy marks. They will prey on these folks and eventually become emboldened enough to prey on their neighbors that are elderly or whom they think will not put up a fight. It’s an ugly cycle that has happened before and will be repeated again.
Restless Native, your rhetoric scares me because it sounds like at its core it's coded language for why "those people" are hopeless and should just be done away with.Restless Native wrote: The thug population in Crown Heights runs all the way into Flatbush for miles, Brownsville, etc. The 'frontier' you're dealing with is huge, and the crime will continue and probably escalate every step of the way.
Resless Native wrote: Not to mention, Crown Heights and especially Franklin Ave was and still is one of NY's major drug dealing hubs, with some pretty deep roots that go back probably to the '70s. Try looking up FAP Franklin Ave Posse. They aren't going away overnight. It will take maybe 7-10 years AT LEAST to get that element completely out of the area, and that's if the cops have the will and manpower to do it.
The drug game is one of supply and demand. If the demographics of the neighborhood change from folks who go to the corner boys to score to the PS business model, with home delivery and transactions that only occur behind closed doors, Franklin will change quickly enough. -
OnEasternParkway wrote:
Sorry, I thought I meant to make it clear I wasn’t responding to the specific thread, but pulling off of a response and just sharing how I felt. Sorry if it was misplaced. I also don't think I said it's a problem that residents have a problem with crime. I think I meant to be a little more specified. My bad if it wasn't clear.
Sweet Jesus. This isn't a thread asking for a new bistro or a Whole Foods -- it's discussing the problems associated with random acts of violence in our neighborhood. If you really think it's a problem that any residents, whether "new" or "old" take issue with such things, then I must say I'd rather not have you as a neighbor. -
mr. met wrote: so, you don't understand someone that moves to a neighborhood, gets mugged or assaulted, and doesn't want that to happen again? and who is running and crying to anyone??? this person just reported it on the board because people like to know what happens in their neighborhood. is that such a foreign concept?
No, please don’t misinterpret what I said.
and hey, i like the neighborhood too, but are you saying you want it to stay the same forever? you want the level of street crime that is present right now to persist? if so, why? what offends you, or, what do you not understand about the residents of a neighborhood wanting street crime to decrease?
you should also understand that people's economic situations sometimes dictate where they live. if i had all the money in the world, yea, id probably live somewhere else -- but i dont. people live where they can. and if they want the neighborhood where they live to be safer, there isn't anything wrong with that.
Again, I said I was NOT responding to the OP. Again, my bad. Maybe I posted in the wrong spot. Crime reports are fine. I absolutely have no problem with them, it's good to be aware of what's going on in the neighborhood. It was more of a general statement. If I got robbed on Franklin avenue and then said, “Oh my God, I got robbed on Frankin Avenue! Something must be done!” my family would tell me, “you moved to franklin avenue. We told you.” I’m not saying crime should persist as it does, I just don’t feel Crown Heights should clean itself up because I moved here. You feel me? Maybe not. That’s okay.
The attitude that I’m referring to, is sort of what you said – if you have the money, you’d live somewhere else. I don’t mean to point you out either, but you just said it. I feel like that makes a difference in the way people deal with things – I’m not here by default. I’m here because I like it here. I moved here without anticipating a change. It could change, crime could decrease and that would be just wonderful. Seriously. But if it doesn’t, I’m still hopefully staying in Crown Heights (although I’ll probably have to move in May when my landlord probably raises my rent! Why? because the neighborhood is getting safer and more "yups" are moving in and everything is getting more expensive. just to echo carnivore (thanks) ) -
BoogieKnight wrote:
Boogieknights – thanks for being genuinely curious and not just arguing (although you did have to add WTF
but not wanting to get mugged on the streets that they live on is an example of somebody forcing the neighborhood to "change on their account"?
By your logic, Crown Heights is defined first and foremost as a neighborhood in which its residents are gonna get mnugged and attacked. Is that right? Or maybe just residents who look like they don't "belong" or seem weak?
Old time residents who were born and bred in CH like being on constant, tense lookout for possible knuckleheads every waking moment of the day? Is that it?
By your logic living in Crown Heights is like being in prison? You gotta be hard and ready to kill somebody everytime you step outside your house? Don't look nobody in the eye, don't take shit from anybody, don't accept or do favors for anybody. That's how we're supposed to live?
Making it so that residents don't live under constant threat of attack would be to make Crown Heights a worse neighborhood?
What do you and others who agree with you gain by having CH maintain it's current level of crime and violence? How does it benefit you? If overnight CH reached let's say the relative peacefulness and safety of Brooklyn Heights or the Upper West Side - how would you suffer?
I'm genuinely curious.
). The way you described CH -
”By your logic living in Crown Heights is like being in prison? You gotta be hard and ready to kill somebody everytime you step outside your house? Don't look nobody in the eye, don't take shit from anybody, don't accept or do favors for anybody. That's how we're supposed to live?”
I never said this. I don’t live like this. I don’t know where you got this from.
I never said I didn’t want CH to get safer. I guess I just don’t feel unsafe here, that’s all. I don’t walk around all hard and ready to kill someone. I don’t walk around like I’m gonna get mugged. I do walk around alert and to a degree mind my own business when I should, but I would do that in any neighborhood, yes even Brooklyn Heights or the UWS.
And speaking of - you compared CH to Brooklyn Heights and the UWS!! You asked how would I suffer, if CH was just as safe as those neighborhoods? None, I wouldn’t suffer at all by the safety increasing. But the people who move in and need to feel safer are the people who will bring all the other changes, and want CH to be a UWS or Brooklyn Heights. And I will suffer bc I’ll have to move bc of rising rents, won’t be able to park my damn car, and my friends who have local businesses will suffer bc of the dizzys and fannys (ok I don’t know what those are but someone else mentioned them ) and starbucks etc that move in. I mean, are you honestly saying you want CH to be Brooklyn Heights or the UWS? It’s not one, and I don’t want it to be one. And I don't think I'm crazy to say that. The crime can get better, that would be great. But I feel that people do not just want to change crime rates. That’s all I was trying to allude to, I guess. That people move to an area, and then change it to how they see it should fit their needs. When plenty of people like it just fine.
Did I make myself a little clearer? : / sorry if I didn’t. Again, this isn’t hostile shit. Just sort of how I feel, I don’t really post on here often. And I am a resident. -
i don't think crown heights should clean itself up (in terms of crime) because i moved here. i think crown heights should clean itself up because crime is bad and no one likes it.
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mr. met wrote: i don't think crown heights should clean itself up (in terms of crime) because i moved here. i think crown heights should clean itself up because crime is bad and no one likes it.
For real. Why is it so impossible for some people to wrap their heads around the idea that not liking crime doesn't necessarily mean someone is an evil privileged gentriwhateverer? Crime just plain sucks. NOBODY should make excuses for it or consider it at all acceptable. Duh. -
Personally, what I find encouraging is that residents are not taking the recent crime spike lying down. Not only have there been local campaigns to get more police into this neighborhood (and it seems to have worked, at least in Crow Hill where they seem to need it most), but people are fighting back. I'm thinking about another poster who got mugged and how the whole neighborhood rallied around him: one letting him use his phone, while a lady chased down the mugger in her pajamas. This coming together totally rocks and is what makes living here cool. 8) That and the fact that MOST people are friendly and will greet you like a neighbor.
I'm thinking about designing a line of ladies' sleepwear with the legend CROWN HEIGHTS CRIME PATROL on the front. Do ya think it'll sell?
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I went to that Asian-Carribean fusion place on Franklin and like Park for New Years...
After the ball dropped, I was leaving w/some friends, and they were shooting in the air in front of the Imperial Bikers club. My old neighbor was freaking out, but somehow I wasn't surprised...
Living in PH/CH is much better w/a bike or car... it's a crazy place. -
I spent $40 on cab fare on New Year's because I couldn't find a cab willing to take me to Crown Heights after hours. It's generally been a problem whenever I've needed to take a cab. While I feel generally safe here, because this neighborhood is so dead quiet at night, I don't feel safe enough to take the subway home after 1 AM, even though I live a block away from the subway.
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imperial bikers club...is that the place on the corner of franklin and st. marks?
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that's weird about the cabs. do you tell the driver, "crown heights"? i just give them my intersection and tell them how to get there. i got a ride at 3am and 5am last weekend. i also haven't had a problem coming home late on the subway. usually there are other people coming off the train at the same time so i try to stay with them.
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If I gave them my intersection, either they would know it was Crown Heights and refuse the ride, or I would get a blank look. Neither bodes well.
At my stop, the crowd thins out after 1 AM. Three people ain't a crowd, particularly if they are going different directions. It's not like my street is so dangerous, but the stores are no longer open and the sidewalks have literally rolled up. That automatically makes it Less Safe because of the total lack of foot traffic.
It's not like Astoria, where I would feel safe coming home at any hour of the night because there are more people coming off the train and the 24-hour bodegas on the corners. -
God, this thread is now hopelessly derailed.
Cabs are bound by law to take you anywhere in the city limits (and Westchester) once you're in, although I wouldn't ever tell a driver "Crown Heights" just because I don't want to hear any griping about it. Just get in, tell 'em your intersection (and directions if they need them) AFTER you've got the door closed, and you should be fine. I think most of them know that if you were savvy enough to wait until you were in with the door closed to tell them where you want to go, then you probably are aware enough of their legal responsibilities that they should just shut up and take you. New Year's Eve is going to be harder, of course, but you should still get in before you say anything about where you're going. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=BoogieKnight]What do you and others who agree with you gain by having CH maintain it's current level of crime and violence? How does it benefit you? If overnight CH reached let's say the relative peacefulness and safety of Brooklyn Heights or the Upper West Side - how would you suffer?
More of the dreaded "yups" will want to move there then, driving up prices and pricing many people (especially renters) out of the neighborhood. Safety and rent go hand in hand. A desire by some to keep more well-off people afraid of the neighborhood isn't totally irrational.
I'm genuinely curious.
So, what, this means that only well-off people deserve safe neighborhoods? -
Most cab drivers won't even let you in the door until you tell them where you're going. And frankly, many of them don't give a shit about the law. I've even had a cab driver take me in the opposite direction of where I wanted to go and then threaten violence when I complained. (But then he got his door sheared off by a bus! HA!) This has also happened to my cousin. That's technically kidnapping, btw.
I've been fortunate to get some really great cab drivers to take me home after hours, but generally it's been a trial. When a lot of cab drivers put up a bitch fest about taking you to Astoria, Queens, you know it's going to be THAT much harder to find a cab driver who will be sanguine about driving to Brooklyn. -
lilbangladesh wrote: Most cab drivers won't even let you in the door until you tell them where you're going. And frankly, many of them don't give a shit about the law. I've even had a cab driver take me in the opposite direction of where I wanted to go and then threaten violence when I complained. (But then he got his door sheared off by a bus! HA!) This has also happened to my cousin. That's technically kidnapping, btw.
I've not once had a problem with a cabbie not letting me in like this.
I've been fortunate to get some really great cab drivers to take me home after hours, but generally it's been a trial. When a lot of cab drivers put up a bitch fest about taking you to Astoria, Queens, you know it's going to be THAT much harder to find a cab driver who will be sanguine about driving to Brooklyn.
And I trust that you reported the driver who threatened violence to the TLC? Because I'm not sure what simply carrying around a dislike of cabbies is going to do for you. -
I would have and I was about to, and then a week later, 9/11 happened. The TLC office was in the frozen zone for weeks. And frankly, people were occupied with other things at that time.
I figured he got his karmic payment when that bus sheared off his door. That's got to be expensive to replace! -
lilbangladesh wrote: Most cab drivers won't even let you in the door until you tell them where you're going.
In seven and a half years of taking cabs in NYC I've not found this to be true at all, but I guess things are different for you. -
i've had cabbies roll down their window and ask me where im going and then drive away, especially late at night...just not since ive been in brooklyn.
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lilbangladesh wrote: Personally, what I find encouraging is that residents are not taking the recent crime spike lying down. Not only have there been local campaigns to get more police into this neighborhood (and it seems to have worked, at least in Crow Hill where they seem to need it most), but people are fighting back.
Sadly, the cops have reported my mugging as simply a "lost property" incident and so there's no indication that they really care or are trying to put an end to things (and, to be fair, they have other things to do, but if this is becoming a pattern...). This despite the fact that the cops told me that it was part of a spate of recent incidents... -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=BoogieKnight]What do you and others who agree with you gain by having CH maintain it's current level of crime and violence? How does it benefit you? If overnight CH reached let's say the relative peacefulness and safety of Brooklyn Heights or the Upper West Side - how would you suffer?
More of the dreaded "yups" will want to move there then, driving up prices and pricing many people (especially renters) out of the neighborhood. Safety and rent go hand in hand. A desire by some to keep more well-off people afraid of the neighborhood isn't totally irrational.
I'm genuinely curious.
So, what, this means that only well-off people deserve safe neighborhoods?
Not at all. I'm saying that a side-effect of increasing neighborhood safety is increasing desirability. And increasing desirability leads to increased rents. It has nothing to do with who deserves what and everything to do with supply and demand (damnit, I'm starting to sound like escap). -
breatheeasy wrote: Boogieknights – thanks for being genuinely curious and not just arguing (although you did have to add WTF
breatheasy thanks for answering, you're right my "WTF" was uncalled for, got caught up in the moment I suppose ). The way you described CH - ...And I will suffer bc I’ll have to move bc of rising rents, won’t be able to park my damn car, and my friends who have local businesses will suffer bc of the dizzys and fannys (ok I don’t know what those are but someone else mentioned them ) and starbucks etc...
Did I make myself a little clearer? : / sorry if I didn’t. Again, this isn’t hostile shit. Just sort of how I feel, I don’t really post on here often. And I am a resident.
I get what you're saying (and carnivore) about increased desirability leading to increased rents - it's just a shame that it seems that poor neighborhoods and residents are doomed to suffer crime-ridden streets.
But doesn't it seem inefficient somehow, not every poor person is a crook, so why do we have to get rid of poor people when we drive crooks out? Get rid of the knuckleheads and old, new, poor, rich residents all breathe easier (I stole your tag ) -
Two things cross my mind about the OP and the subsequent post by the OP about the police report. First of all, I put a lot of stock in being aware and alert and making eye contact. However, making eye contact with someone on a bike as he passes you in the dark sounds difficult. I guess if I were in the same situation I would turn around to let them know I was aware they were there, but if kids on bikes passed me and turned the corner, I certainly wouldn't assume they were waiting for me at my front door. Yikes, that makes the whole thing way spooky. Hopefully, though, because there was a real scuffle and they only got your phone, they won't bother with you again.
The part that really gets me is the lost property classification for the police report. I've heard countless stories, here on this board, now that I think of it, as well as from friends and neighbors, about the police refusing to take crime reports in order to keep the comp stats low. If I were you, I would go to the next precinct council meeting and ask the C.O. why your report wasn't filed as an assault or robbery. Lost property, my eye.
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