This site is closed to new comments and posts.

Notice: This site uses cookies to function.
If you are not comfortable with cookies then please don't browse this website.

Turns out that WE NEED A STARBUCKS — Brooklynian

Turns out that WE NEED A STARBUCKS

http://www.slate.com/id/2180301/

Don't Fear Starbucks
Why the franchise actually helps mom and pop coffeehouses
.
By Taylor Clark
Posted Friday, Dec. 28, 2007, at 7:35 AM ET
The first time Herb Hyman spoke with the rep from Starbucks, in 1991, the life of his small business flashed before his eyes. For three decades, Hyman's handful of Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf stores had been filling the caffeine needs of Los Angeles locals and the Hollywood elite: Johnny Carson had his own blend there; Jacques Cousteau arranged to have Hyman's coffee care packages meet his ship at ports around the world; and Dirty Dozen leading man Lee Marvin often worked behind the counter with Hyman for fun. But when the word came down that the rising Seattle coffee juggernaut was plotting its raid on Los Angeles, Hyman feared his life's work would be trampled underfoot. Starbucks even promised as much. "They just flat-out said, 'If you don't sell out to us, we're going to surround your stores,' " Hyman recalled. "And lo and behold, that's what happened—and it was the best thing that ever happened to us."

Ever since Starbucks blanketed every functioning community in America with its cafes, the one effect of its expansion that has steamed people the most has been the widely assumed dying-off of mom and pop coffeehouses. Our cities once overflowed with charming independent coffee shops, the popular thinking goes, until the corporate steamroller known as Starbucks came through and crushed them all, perhaps tossing the victims a complimentary Alanis Morrisette CD to ease the psychic pain. In a world where Starbucks operates nearly 15,000 stores, with six new ones opening each day, isn't this a reasonable assumption? How could momma and poppa coffee hope to survive? But Hyman didn't misspeak—and neither did the dozens of other coffeehouse owners I've interviewed. Strange as it sounds, the best way to boost sales at your independently owned coffeehouse may just be to have Starbucks move in next-door.

That's certainly how it worked out for Hyman. Soon after declining Starbucks's buyout offer, Hyman received the expected news that the company was opening up next to one of his stores. But instead of panicking, he decided to call his friend Jim Stewart, founder of the Seattle's Best Coffee chain, to find out what really happens when a Starbucks opens nearby. "You're going to love it," Stewart reported. "They'll do all of your marketing for you, and your sales will soar." The prediction came true: Each new Starbucks store created a local buzz, drawing new converts to the latte-drinking fold. When the lines at Starbucks grew beyond the point of reason, these converts started venturing out—and, Look! There was another coffeehouse right next-door! Hyman's new neighbor boosted his sales so much that he decided to turn the tactic around and start targeting Starbucks. "We bought a Chinese restaurant right next to one of their stores and converted it, and by God, it was doing $1 million a year right away," he said.

Hyman isn't the only one who has experienced this Starbucks reverse jinx. Orange County, Calif., coffeehouse owner Martin Diedrich started hyperventilating when he first heard a Starbucks was opening "within a stone's throw" of his cafe, yet he reported similar results: "I didn't suffer whatsoever. Ultimately I prospered, in no small part because of it." Ward Barbee, the recently passed founder of the coffee trade magazine Fresh Cup, saw this happen scores of times. "Anyone who complains about having a Starbucks put in next to you is crazy," he told me. "You want to welcome the manager, give them flowers. It should be the best news that any local coffeehouse ever had."

Now, lest we get carried away with the happy civic results of Starbucks' global expansion, I hasten to point out that the company isn't exactly thrilled to have this effect on its local competitors' sales. Starbucks is actually trying to be ruthless in its store placements; it wants those independents out of the way, and it frequently succeeds at displacing them through other means, such as buying a mom and pop's lease or intimidating them into selling out. Beyond the frothy drinks and the touchy-feely decor, Starbucks runs on considerable competitive fire. Consider Tracy Cornell, a former Starbucks real-estate dealmaker who found and locked up a staggering 900 North American retail sites for the company in her decade-plus career. "It was sort of piranha-like," Cornell told me of her work for Starbucks. "It was just talking to landlords, seeing who was behind on their rent. All I needed was an opening like that, where the landlord wanted out. I was looking for tenants who were weak."

As much as independent coffeehouse owners generally enjoy having a Starbucks close at hand, most of them seem to have a story or two of someone from the company trying to undercut them. And occasionally a new Starbucks will hurt a mom and pop—even drive them out of business. For example, in 2006, cafe owner Penny Stafford filed a federal antitrust suit against the company, alleging a nearby Starbucks illegally sank her Bellevue, Wash., coffeehouse. Starbucks employees were passing out samples right outside her front door, Stafford claims, even though the company's nearest outlet was over 300 feet away.

But closures like this have been the exception, not the rule. In its predatory store placement strategy, Starbucks has been about as lethal a killer as a fluffy bunny rabbit. Business for independently owned coffee shops has been nothing less than exceptional as of late. Here's a statistic that might be surprising, given the omnipresence of the Starbucks empire: According to recent figures from the Specialty Coffee Association of America, 57 percent of the nation's coffeehouses are still mom and pops. Just over the five-year period from 2000 to 2005—long after Starbucks supposedly obliterated indie cafes—the number of mom and pops grew 40 percent, from 9,800 to nearly 14,000 coffeehouses. (Starbucks, I might add, tripled in size over that same time period. Good times all around.) So much for the sharp decline in locally owned coffee shops. And prepare yourself for some bona fide solid investment advice: The failure rate for new coffeehouses is a mere 10 percent, according to the market research firm Mintel, which means the vast majority of cafes stay afloat no matter where Starbucks drops its stores. Compare that to the restaurant business, where failure is the norm.

So now that we know Starbucks isn't slaughtering mom and pop, the thorny question remains: Why is Starbucks amplifying their business? It's actually pretty simple. In contrast to so-called "downtown killers" like Home Depot or Wal-Mart, Starbucks doesn't enjoy the kinds of competitive advantages that cut down its local rivals' sales. Look at Wal-Mart. It offers lower prices and a wider array of goods than its small-town rivals, so it acts like a black hole on local consumers, sucking in virtually all of their business. Starbucks, on the other hand, is often more expensive than the local coffeehouse, and it offers a very limited menu; you'll never see discounts or punch cards at Starbucks, nor will you see unique, localized fare (or—let's be honest—fare that doesn't make your tongue feel like it's dying). In other words, a new Starbucks doesn't prevent customers from visiting independents in the same way Wal-Mart does—especially since coffee addicts need a fix every day, yet they don't always need to hit the same place for it. When Starbucks opens a store next to a mom and pop, it creates a sort of coffee nexus where people can go whenever they think "coffee." Local consumers might have a formative experience with a Java Chip Frappuccino, but chances are they'll branch out to the cheaper, less crowded, and often higher-quality independent cafe later on. So when Starbucks blitzed Omaha with six new stores in 2002, for instance, business at all coffeehouses in town immediately went up as much as 25 percent.

The key for independent coffeehouse owners who want to thrive with a Starbucks next-door is that they don't try to imitate Starbucks. (As many failed coffee chains can attest, there's no way to beat Starbucks at being Starbucks.) The locally owned cafes that offer their own unique spin on the coffeehouse experience—and, crucially, a quality brew—are the ones that give the Seattle behemoth fits. Serve an appetizing enough cappuccino, and you can even follow Hyman's lead and take aim at almighty Starbucks, where automated espresso machines now pull consistently middling shots at the touch of a button—no employee craftsmanship required.

After all, if Starbucks can make a profit by putting its stores right across the street from each other, as it so often does, why couldn't a unique, well-run mom and pop do even better next-door? And given America's continuing thirst for exorbitantly priced gourmet coffee drinks, there's a lot of cash out there for the taking. As coffee consultant Dan Cox explained, "You can't do better than a cup of coffee for profit. It's insanity. A cup of coffee costs 16 cents. Once you add in labor and overhead, you're still charging a 400 percent markup—not bad! Where else can you do that?" Until Americans decide they need to pay four bucks a pop every morning for a custom-baked, designer-toast experience, probably nowhere.

______________________-

Haha! I love articles like this. How confused would our local politicians be if we suddenly formed lobby groups and visited their offices demanding help in getting some Starbucks into our hoods?

Conventional wisdom has dictated that FG/CH/BS residents have long opposed the mere thought of a chain like Star Bucks moving in. What would happen to mom & pops? Haha, well now maybe mom & pops will be the ones sending petitions to starbucks begging them to move in!

Comments

  • All very well and good, Guvna, but you assume the reason that those of us who shun Starbucks are united in our complaints.

    Personally, I avoid them because their coffee tastes like butt. :?
  • queencallipygos wrote: All very well and good, Guvna, but you assume the reason that those of us who shun Starbucks are united in our complaints.

    Personally, I avoid them because their coffee tastes like butt. :?
    me too! My wife loves em though :shock:
  • Very interesting read and it makes sense to a certain degree. The complaints at the top of my list re: starbucks are a) their coffee DOES taste like butt, b) i REFUSE to use their made-up vocabulary. small is "small" and and coffee with steamed milk is an "au lait" and i don't care what the 18 year-old barista behind the counter calls them and c) their lines are stupid. All of these are points that, hopefully, the mom and pop shop next door are able capitalize on.
  • Anonymous wrote: Very interesting read and it makes sense to a certain degree. The complaints at the top of my list re: starbucks are a) their coffee DOES taste like butt, b) i REFUSE to use their made-up vocabulary. small is "small" and and coffee with steamed milk is an "au lait" and i don't care what the 18 year-old barista behind the counter calls them and c) their lines are stupid. All of these are points that, hopefully, the mom and pop shop next door are able capitalize on.
    yes. point B is a major issue with me. I hardly ever go there, but when I do I get totally pissed off trying to make a simple order of friggin coffee. Needless to say, I dont stick around to learn all of their other wondrous offerings. :evil:
  • :?: I'm a bit confused, Guvna -- if you dislike Starbucks, then I'm not sure why you posted that pro-Starbucks article in the first place?...
  • Guvna wrote: [quote=Anonymous]Very interesting read and it makes sense to a certain degree. The complaints at the top of my list re: starbucks are a) their coffee DOES taste like butt, b) i REFUSE to use their made-up vocabulary. small is "small" and and coffee with steamed milk is an "au lait" and i don't care what the 18 year-old barista behind the counter calls them and c) their lines are stupid. All of these are points that, hopefully, the mom and pop shop next door are able capitalize on.
    yes. point B is a major issue with me. I hardly ever go there, but when I do I get totally pissed off trying to make a simple order of friggin coffee. Needless to say, I dont stick around to learn all of their other wondrous offerings. :evil:
    I definitely agree on point B. There was a pre-existing nomenclature for 3 sizes of drink long before Starbucks and I refuse to let them make me use their made-up terminology. I won't say it no matter how many times they try to make me.

    Me: "Can I have a medium coffee with room for milk?"
    Cashier: "You mean a grande?"
    Me: "No, I mean a medium."
    Cashier: "A grande."
    Me: "No, a medium! You have three sizes- I want the middle one."
    Cashier (to barista): "ONE GRANDE WITH ROOM"
  • Carnivore wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=Anonymous]Very interesting read and it makes sense to a certain degree. The complaints at the top of my list re: starbucks are a) their coffee DOES taste like butt, b) i REFUSE to use their made-up vocabulary. small is "small" and and coffee with steamed milk is an "au lait" and i don't care what the 18 year-old barista behind the counter calls them and c) their lines are stupid. All of these are points that, hopefully, the mom and pop shop next door are able capitalize on.
    yes. point B is a major issue with me. I hardly ever go there, but when I do I get totally pissed off trying to make a simple order of friggin coffee. Needless to say, I dont stick around to learn all of their other wondrous offerings. :evil:
    I definitely agree on point B. There was a pre-existing nomenclature for 3 sizes of drink long before Starbucks and I refuse to let them make me use their made-up terminology. I won't say it no matter how many times they try to make me.

    Me: "Can I have a medium coffee with room for milk?"
    Cashier: "You mean a grande?"
    Me: "No, I mean a medium."
    Cashier: "A grande."
    Me: "No, a medium! You have three sizes- I want the middle one."
    Cashier (to barista): "ONE GRANDE WITH ROOM"

    this was like the "au lait controversy" a few months back:

    me: i'd like a medium au lait, please.
    starbucks person: WHAT???????
  • queencallipygos wrote: :?: I'm a bit confused, Guvna -- if you dislike Starbucks, then I'm not sure why you posted that pro-Starbucks article in the first place?...
    Because many other people like it, and because those who dont like it have little reason to fear that it would kill off the mom & Pop coffee shops. We still have too many vacant store fronts on Myrtle. I wouldnt mind a starbucks now.
  • Carnivore wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=Anonymous]Very interesting read and it makes sense to a certain degree. The complaints at the top of my list re: starbucks are a) their coffee DOES taste like butt, b) i REFUSE to use their made-up vocabulary. small is "small" and and coffee with steamed milk is an "au lait" and i don't care what the 18 year-old barista behind the counter calls them and c) their lines are stupid. All of these are points that, hopefully, the mom and pop shop next door are able capitalize on.
    yes. point B is a major issue with me. I hardly ever go there, but when I do I get totally pissed off trying to make a simple order of friggin coffee. Needless to say, I dont stick around to learn all of their other wondrous offerings. :evil:
    I definitely agree on point B. There was a pre-existing nomenclature for 3 sizes of drink long before Starbucks and I refuse to let them make me use their made-up terminology. I won't say it no matter how many times they try to make me.

    Me: "Can I have a medium coffee with room for milk?"
    Cashier: "You mean a grande?"
    Me: "No, I mean a medium."
    Cashier: "A grande."
    Me: "No, a medium! You have three sizes- I want the middle one."
    Cashier (to barista): "ONE GRANDE WITH ROOM"
    give em hell! LOL
  • Guvna wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]:?: I'm a bit confused, Guvna -- if you dislike Starbucks, then I'm not sure why you posted that pro-Starbucks article in the first place?...
    Because many other people like it, and because those who dont like it have little reason to fear that it would kill off the mom & Pop coffee shops. We still have too many vacant store fronts on Myrtle. I wouldnt mind a starbucks now.

    I can think of a number of other shops I'd prefer -- a bakery, a florist, a butcher, a toystore, a bookstore...if you're just hoping that places on Myrtle get filled, how about with something that the community doesn't already have?
  • queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=queencallipygos]:?: I'm a bit confused, Guvna -- if you dislike Starbucks, then I'm not sure why you posted that pro-Starbucks article in the first place?...
    Because many other people like it, and because those who dont like it have little reason to fear that it would kill off the mom & Pop coffee shops. We still have too many vacant store fronts on Myrtle. I wouldnt mind a starbucks now.

    I can think of a number of other shops I'd prefer -- a bakery, a florist, a butcher, a toystore, a bookstore...if you're just hoping that places on Myrtle get filled, how about with something that the community doesn't already have?
    All of those sound cool, but I know that Starbucks has the funding to do it yesterday. Besides, there are enough empty storefronts for everyone from what I see. In addition, who knows, maybe a starbucks would raise foot traffic to the point that catches the eye of the very people who would consider opening a florist, bakery, butcher, etc. That would be a good thing.
  • queencallipygos wrote: All very well and good, Guvna, but you assume the reason that those of us who shun Starbucks are united in our complaints.

    Personally, I avoid them because their coffee tastes like butt. :?
    Not ever having tasted butt I wouldn't know whether that's an accurate comparison or not. However I do know that the coffee is downright AWFUL and the places are really freakin' annoying.

    I'll still get my coffee from Pillow, Cafe Martino or Choice even if a Star*ucks opens in the apartment next door.
  • Subject: Re: Turns out that WE NEED A STARBUCKS

    Guvna wrote: http://www.slate.com/id/2180301/

    [b]

    Now, lest we get carried away with the happy civic results of Starbucks' global expansion, I hasten to point out that the company isn't exactly thrilled to have this effect on its local competitors' sales. Starbucks is actually trying to be ruthless in its store placements; it wants those independents out of the way, and it frequently succeeds at displacing them through other means, such as buying a mom and pop's lease or intimidating them into selling out. Beyond the frothy drinks and the touchy-feely decor, Starbucks runs on considerable competitive fire. Consider Tracy Cornell, a former Starbucks real-estate dealmaker who found and locked up a staggering 900 North American retail sites for the company in her decade-plus career. "It was sort of piranha-like," Cornell told me of her work for Starbucks. "It was just talking to landlords, seeing who was behind on their rent. All I needed was an opening like that, where the landlord wanted out. I was looking for tenants who were weak."

    !
    Since they "frequently succeed" at displacing businesses by other means, many of them nasty, this is not the ethos I want to promote in this neighborhood. This is a relatively small area and there are still lots of other businesses many of us would like to see here and I don't want to see Starbuck's take up that space.

    That, and the coffee tastes like butt.
  • queencallipygos wrote: I avoid them because their coffee tastes like butt. :?
    whose butt ? :P


    ------
    edit

    I replied before I read all the way down.
  • Carnivore wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=Anonymous]Very interesting read and it makes sense to a certain degree. The complaints at the top of my list re: starbucks are a) their coffee DOES taste like butt, b) i REFUSE to use their made-up vocabulary. small is "small" and and coffee with steamed milk is an "au lait" and i don't care what the 18 year-old barista behind the counter calls them and c) their lines are stupid. All of these are points that, hopefully, the mom and pop shop next door are able capitalize on.
    yes. point B is a major issue with me. I hardly ever go there, but when I do I get totally pissed off trying to make a simple order of friggin coffee. Needless to say, I dont stick around to learn all of their other wondrous offerings. :evil:
    I definitely agree on point B. There was a pre-existing nomenclature for 3 sizes of drink long before Starbucks and I refuse to let them make me use their made-up terminology. I won't say it no matter how many times they try to make me.

    Me: "Can I have a medium coffee with room for milk?"
    Cashier: "You mean a grande?"
    Me: "No, I mean a medium."
    Cashier: "A grande."
    Me: "No, a medium! You have three sizes- I want the middle one."
    Cashier (to barista): "ONE GRANDE WITH ROOM"

    This is the exact conversation I have, approx. once a year when I go to a Starbucks.

    I think it's true that Starbucks popularized a taste for stronger coffee across America. I think they are also contributing to epidemic diabetes and obesity with those flavored drinks. Coffee should have zero calories, not 1200 calories of eggnog macchiato carmel whip cream blah blah blah.
  • Subject: Re: Turns out that WE NEED A STARBUCKS

    kgs wrote: [quote=Guvna]http://www.slate.com/id/2180301/

    [b]

    Now, lest we get carried away with the happy civic results of Starbucks' global expansion, I hasten to point out that the company isn't exactly thrilled to have this effect on its local competitors' sales. Starbucks is actually trying to be ruthless in its store placements; it wants those independents out of the way, and it frequently succeeds at displacing them through other means, such as buying a mom and pop's lease or intimidating them into selling out. Beyond the frothy drinks and the touchy-feely decor, Starbucks runs on considerable competitive fire. Consider Tracy Cornell, a former Starbucks real-estate dealmaker who found and locked up a staggering 900 North American retail sites for the company in her decade-plus career. "It was sort of piranha-like," Cornell told me of her work for Starbucks. "It was just talking to landlords, seeing who was behind on their rent. All I needed was an opening like that, where the landlord wanted out. I was looking for tenants who were weak."

    !
    Since they "frequently succeed" at displacing businesses by other means, many of them nasty, this is not the ethos I want to promote in this neighborhood. This is a relatively small area and there are still lots of other businesses many of us would like to see here and I don't want to see Starbuck's take up that space.

    That, and the coffee tastes like butt.
    Displacing businesses? From vacant storefronts? Hhhm. Nothing to be woried about here.
  • arZan wrote: [quote=queencallipygos] I avoid them because their coffee tastes like butt. :?
    whose butt ? :P


    ------
    edit

    I replied before I read all the way down.

    does it matter? :D I would think all butts generally lack good flavoring, but maybe that's just me :?
  • Guvna wrote: does it matter? :D I would think all butts generally lack good flavoring, but maybe that's just me :?
    Oh....you are so wrong......u dont know what you are missing in life.

    Ok, to get back to the discussion...

    I personally like starbucks because of the choice it offers. As to the poster who said that Starbucks contributes to obesity and diabetes....well I would first go after Coke, McDonalds, Burger King, Doritos and their ilk before targetting starbucks. I think (and I have been known to be wrong) that people who can afford Starbucks are generally a more "literate" and "conscious" lot when it comes to health education.
  • arZan wrote: [quote=Guvna]does it matter? :D I would think all butts generally lack good flavoring, but maybe that's just me :?
    Oh....you are so wrong......u dont know what you are missing in life.


    I dont like spinach either, but thats neither here nor there. Enjoy what you like (even if its tasting butts :shock: ).
  • arZan wrote: As to the poster who said that Starbucks contributes to obesity and diabetes....well I would first go after Coke, McDonalds, Burger King, Doritos and their ilk before targetting starbucks.
    Like I said, contributes
    I'd go after Bob Dole, Archer Daniels Midland, and the corn syrup industry if I was starting a campaign and not just commenting in a thread about Starbucks.
    :D
    Sugary fat coffee drinks slip under the radar because "coffee" used to have no calories to speak of, and it's more *fun* to be in denial about what these flavored coffee drinks actually contain. Anyway, that's what I see some of my older female relatives (and younger health conscious athletes too, come to think of it) getting up to, and they avoid sodas and fat/salt bombs at fast food places.

    I wonder what happened to that calorie/dietary info labeling thing the city Dept of Health wanted to institute. I want it to say 12,000 calories (or whatever) right next to the $4 price tag on that Medium Coffee with syrup and half a cow.
    arZan wrote: I think (and I have been known to be wrong) that people who can afford Starbucks are generally a more "literate" and "conscious" lot when it comes to health education.
    This is a totally different topic, but I think people across the economic spectrum know what the right thing to do is in terms of their health, just as people across the economic spectrum choose not to do those things (eat better, exercise more.)
  • I'll get flamed for this, but I think any business that brings more traffic to the hood is a good thing- consumerism sucks, but more desirable goods, foods and services in this area will also bring better transportation, more police activity and maybe even cleaner streets (which, on a sidenote, I find to be totally disgusting. I live on Lafayette and this street is so disgusting I can barely even believe that they do a lick of street cleaning, and I see my supor sweeping every day! How can my neighbors be so downright gross?!)
  • Carmen wrote: I'll get flamed for this, but I think any business that brings more traffic to the hood is a good thing- consumerism sucks, but more desirable goods, foods and services in this area will also bring better transportation, more police activity and maybe even cleaner streets (which, on a sidenote, I find to be totally disgusting. I live on Lafayette and this street is so disgusting I can barely even believe that they do a lick of street cleaning, and I see my supor sweeping every day! How can my neighbors be so downright gross?!)
    Thats kind of what I am getting at. We have more than enough empty storefronts that one starbucks will not deprive anyone of anything, and may even have a positive effect on the surrounding businesses and community by generating more foot traffic, and convincing potential entrepreneurs that the strip is a good place to open up.
  • Comparing the taste of butt to that of Starbucks' coffee is an insult to butts the world over. Horribly bitter coffee. Also, a friend worked as a barista at a Starbucks during her college years, and she had some rather unpleasant things to say about the freshness and cleanliness of their coffee and, even worse, the baked goods.
  • pitu wrote: [quote=arZan]As to the poster who said that Starbucks contributes to obesity and diabetes....well I would first go after Coke, McDonalds, Burger King, Doritos and their ilk before targetting starbucks.
    Like I said, contributes
    I'd go after Bob Dole, Archer Daniels Midland, and the corn syrup industry if I was starting a campaign and not just commenting in a thread about Starbucks.
    :D
    Sugary fat coffee drinks slip under the radar because "coffee" used to have no calories to speak of, and it's more *fun* to be in denial about what these flavored coffee drinks actually contain. Anyway, that's what I see some of my older female relatives (and younger health conscious athletes too, come to think of it) getting up to, and they avoid sodas and fat/salt bombs at fast food places.

    I wonder what happened to that calorie/dietary info labeling thing the city Dept of Health wanted to institute. I want it to say 12,000 calories (or whatever) right next to the $4 price tag on that Medium Coffee with syrup and half a cow.
    arZan wrote: I think (and I have been known to be wrong) that people who can afford Starbucks are generally a more "literate" and "conscious" lot when it comes to health education.
    This is a totally different topic, but I think people across the economic spectrum know what the right thing to do is in terms of their health, just as people across the economic spectrum choose not to do those things (eat better, exercise more.)
    even the mom & pop shops have flavored coffee choices now. we, as consumers, are left to our own devices to figure out what is good/bad for us, and eat accordingly. In short, we're all doomed!
  • Guvna wrote: [quote=Carmen]I'll get flamed for this, but I think any business that brings more traffic to the hood is a good thing- consumerism sucks, but more desirable goods, foods and services in this area will also bring better transportation, more police activity and maybe even cleaner streets (which, on a sidenote, I find to be totally disgusting. I live on Lafayette and this street is so disgusting I can barely even believe that they do a lick of street cleaning, and I see my supor sweeping every day! How can my neighbors be so downright gross?!)
    Thats kind of what I am getting at. We have more than enough empty storefronts that one starbucks will not deprive anyone of anything, and may even have a positive effect on the surrounding businesses and community by generating more foot traffic, and convincing potential entrepreneurs that the strip is a good place to open up.

    Agreed- the lack of conveniences in this neighborhood is the primary reason most of my friends don't want to live here (and a primary reason that I'm looking to move after 1.5 years in my apartment.) As a business owner and work-from-homer, I absolutely hate that there is NOTHING here- I can't "run out" and get anything unless I go to tiny cup (which, as I've said before, I do love but its getting old.) To get decent groceries youve go to take a good long walk or a train ride, and theres no possible way to get drug-store type stuff without trucking down to restoration plaza. Its super inconvenient to run out of computer paper and have to commute for 30 minutes each way, thus putting me out of commission to my clients for well over an hour, when most neighborhoods have SOME sort of option for these kinds of things.

    /rant.
  • If don't know you are running out of paper and you print a lot you probably need to change they way decide when you need to re-stock. Even if you're in the city you can't just go any where and pick up a ream of paper.

    Starbucks is not the answer to what ails that strip I think the problem is a bit more complex than that. Last time I was on west 8th street in manhattan there were at least 5 empty store fronts.
  • There are about 6 vacant store fronts on the Myrtle block between Vanderbilt and clinton. Starbucks can do us no harm there, although Connecticut muffins seems to be doing well on the corner. Further down towards the park is more where I'd like to see a starbucks, if anywhere. something with corporate resources has a better chance of success down that end.
  • eh, i'll still grab a coffee from the deli on adelphi and myrtle. i like being able to pay for it with pocket change.
  • rtraindweller wrote: eh, i'll still grab a coffee from the deli on adelphi and myrtle. i like being able to pay for it with pocket change.
    thats whats nice about choices.
Sign In or Register to comment.