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Park Slope Credit Card/Bank Card Fraud! - Page 3 — Brooklynian

Park Slope Credit Card/Bank Card Fraud!

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  • Subject: Re: Credit card fraud

    JanetG wrote: At least one poster mentions having a Chase Visa. When Chase sent me a new Visa card with the "blink" symbol, allowing me to pass it near a designated receiver in some stores and to therefore use the card without its leaving my hand, I had fraudulent charges in a matter of weeks--never before--and was convinced the info had been stolen before the card was even delivered to me. Now I see Citibank has this PayPass program (including useability at some subway stations) and wonder if there could be a connection.
    In keeping with the prior posts which won't name their "suspects" I won't identify which quasi-governmental institution might have crooked employees, people who have access to our mail before we do, often in other areas of the country. However, I am reminded of a period several years ago when I had to change which postal zone I mailed my Netflix DVDs back from so they would reach their destination.
    As to the customer "not being responsible": how about the fact that, when they decide they need to change your card number (which has happened to me), it's the customer who has to notify the 20+ companies who already have that number for periodic or other payments?
    JanetG, its not the mail because some of us (incl. myself) have paperless billing. I also originally got my card in the mail when I lived in a different Brooklyn neighborhood miles from here and have had nothing with my card number on it sent to this address (or my old one).

    I think we are onto something with the RFID technology possibly being a common factor, but still I don't think it is a mobile suspect. I think if it is the RFID situation, that someone attached a reader or something to a local business where cards would be frequently swiped, then went back and got their reader days later with all the info. Not only may the business not be involved - it might not even be a dishonest employee. It would be quite possible to do something like that as a bystander at at a busy place.

    If it is RFID technology that got us all here, I'm still willing to bet that we can find a common locality, possibly even on the same day, that we all encountered the fraud.

    There are YouTube videos on how easy you can steal info from these cards. I'm calling my bank this morning and having yet another new card sent to me without the stupid RFID chip.

    In other news, they're going to start putting those chips into passports. I can only imagine . . .
  • Happened to me as well, multiple thousands charged to my card.
  • Again, let me interject why I think its a mobile device. Think like the person stealing things. Why limit it to who comes close to me when I can walk around all day close to people. I can net a lot greater result for my expenditure if i am a mobile device. And you have to get within about 3 meters to pick up a legit signal. This limits where you can put it in a store. Only a small number of cards now have this, so the payload of hiding this in a store goes way down. Its why I think its not likely to be related to a store as well. While that was the "traditional form" of lifting numbers, this is our new paradigm.

    RFID readers require computers to do it. Tho I have seen them converted into PDAs, which is cool. I put my PDA in my coat pocket and walk around on a crowded subway card and I can get a lot of information. Its about payload. And there will never be the payload at a store as there will be in something like mass transit.
  • Subject: Credit/debit card fraud

    I don't necessarily think there's just one fraud ring. And some of this isn't new, just seems to be higher tech.

    The fact that many people report that they've had their card numbers used thousands of miles from here leads me to suspect postal staff(but not the folks at 11215, who just don't seem motivated enough). Citibank and Chase cards originate from all over.
  • Here is a NY Times article on how they could do it:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/23/business/23card.html?ex=1319256000

    Can someone on the PSP message board find out if everyone on there has an RFID on their card that was scammed?

    I agree that a crowded subway car would be an ideal place to do it, but I still don't know if that is the case. It would be really easy for someone who takes your card away at a business to do it as well, and I feel like on the Subway we would have a much larger sampling of people and it wouldn't be so localized to Park Slope. If I get into a crowded subway car at 7th Ave and do a survey, there will be people from all over, not just Park Slope, but this seems to be happening specifically to people who live in or have recently visited a specific certain raidus. Either way, everyone needs to get cards that don't have these RFIDs. The concept that this even could have happened should be scary enough.
  • I got hit as well - about $400 in charges to a gas station in TX in December. I have a Citi issued debit card, I don't believe it has any type of RFID chip in it. Citibank was pretty quick about removing the charges and giving me a credit when I disputed them.
  • Thanks so much for posting this - just checked our AmEx bill and there is a $24 charge to a 7th Ave restaurant on 12/29 when WE WERE IN MIAMI. We had eaten at this place a week before, and that $30 charge is also on the bill. Not going back anyway as the food sucked.
  • I think it is really important that we all report our seperate incidents to the 78th precinct. The Gowanus Lounge blog said there are over 5 dozen of us so far who have come forward with this now - 48 hours ago there were only a handful, so imagine how many there are who aren't online and haven't thought to check yet. I don't think most people have gotten their bank statements from that period yet, and there could easily be hundreds more.

    I'm going after work on Wednesday to file a report.
  • saddest thing is i have one of those rfid cards. i didn't even want it too. funny thing would be if i had a fraudulent charge :/. i rarely check my statements carefully. i guess i'll be looking now.

    damn you citi bank replacing my old card with newer one.
  • Subject: Print transactions out before you cancel the card!

    Bear in mind that once you report the fraud to your card issuer, you will no longer be able to access transaction info on-line, so if you want to print out a list of recent transactions (legit and fraudulent, to narrow down vendors) do it BEFORE you call.
  • Subject: How can you tell if it's an RFID card?

    How can you tell if it's an RFID card? Would it be obvious from looking at the card itself? I don't see anything on either of my credit cards that looks or is identified as such--is it visible?
  • Subject: Re: How can you tell if it's an RFID card?

    Mrs. H. wrote: How can you tell if it's an RFID card? Would it be obvious from looking at the card itself? I don't see anything on either of my credit cards that looks or is identified as such--is it visible?
    Mine is a Chase card and Chase has named their RFID system "Blink" so I know because it has a Blink symbol in the middle on the front and says "Blink". Also, on the back it has 4 curved lines that look like a radio signal symbol or something - not unlike the wavy lines on the logo for XM radio.

    If your card is new within the past year or so, and with a major bank in NY, you probably have it and should research. If it is older or with a much smaller bank, I wouldn't think you would have it yet.
  • Subject: not for the first time either

    I received a call from Citibank's fraud division on Sunday, alerting me to charges made in Florida. When I get my bank statement and transaction history I will be happy to compare notes. (so pm me if interested in said investigation)

    In the meantime....anybody take a check?
  • A cursory google search shows that people in Menomonie, WI are experiencing very similar problems:

    http://www.dunnconnect.com/articles/2008/01/02/news/news01.txt
    http://www.dunnconnect.com/articles/2008/01/09/news/news07.txt
  • WindowDressing-

    Was yours a credit card or a debit card?
  • I just called my bank (HSBC) to verify whether my Debit Mastercard is RFID enabled (it is) and to ask if they would replace it with a regular ATM card. They said that they could do that but that every time I used the ATM card for purchases there would be a 25 cent charge to my account. The guy I spoke to claimed that this was a Mastercard requirement, which I find pretty hard to believe actually. How the hell would Mastercard be able to demand that HSBC charge a quarter on every purchase with HSBC's own card? Whatever, it seems that our financial institutions are willing participants in encouraging a technology that increases the risk of fraud and have a policy of punishing consumers who pro-actively attempt to decrease their own exposure to that risk. Like we're supposed to trust the judgment of entities that have multi billion dollar losses because they can't be bothered to check whether the loans they make are likely to get repaid? It's a world gone mad, I tell you.
  • One of the moderators on the Park Slope Parents board has contacted the 78th precinct on behalf of the PSP board members who have been victims.

    Without posting the entire post, she has said that if you live in Park Slope and have been a victim of credit fraud within the last 6 to 8 weeks and feel that there could be a local link, please contact Detective Shy at the 78th precinct. His number is 718 636 6483
  • johnife wrote: I just called my bank (HSBC) to verify whether my Debit Mastercard is RFID enabled (it is) and to ask if they would replace it with a regular ATM card. They said that they could do that but that every time I used the ATM card for purchases there would be a 25 cent charge to my account. The guy I spoke to claimed that this was a Mastercard requirement, which I find pretty hard to believe actually. How the hell would Mastercard be able to demand that HSBC charge a quarter on every purchase with HSBC's own card? Whatever, it seems that our financial institutions are willing participants in encouraging a technology that increases the risk of fraud and have a policy of punishing consumers who pro-actively attempt to decrease their own exposure to that risk. Like we're supposed to trust the judgment of entities that have multi billion dollar losses because they can't be bothered to check whether the loans they make are likely to get repaid? It's a world gone mad, I tell you.
    That really sucks! I called Chase today and asked for a non-RFID replacement and they said OK and thankfully there were no extra charges or anything.

    You can wrap your RFID card in foil to prevent theft via radio frequency on the aforementioned subway and the like, but that won't stop someone from copying info the old fashioned way when you hand them your card (which is what I think probably happened to all of us anyway).
  • I just called my bank to ask about my debit card and it is NOT RFID enabled.

    Good for me! Now i just have to keep up what I do anyway-only using bank ATMs, never using my debit card online and when I do give it to someone in a store to pay for something-making sure it stays in my view at all times.

    Thanks for the info people!
  • It would seem a good strategy that if you get a renewal card which is RFID enabled, you not call the toll-free number to activate it, since presumably no one can use it 'til you do. Instead, contact the bank indicating you want a card without RFID. (And if it's HSBC, switch banks.)
  • RockerGirl77 wrote:
    You can wrap your RFID card in foil to prevent theft via radio frequency on the aforementioned subway and the like, but that won't stop someone from copying info the old fashioned way when you hand them your card (which is what I think probably happened to all of us anyway).
    just for the record, I do not agree with your assessment that this is plausibly tied to a store.

    just throwing that out there.

    and if you don't want to look like a tool and carry around tin foil wrapped cards (which will totally hose the magnetic strip, btw), http://www.difrwear.com/ check out the RFID blocking wallet. They've been around for a few years and though not pretty are great at fixing the problem.

    RockerGirl, I am thrilled you took my hypothesis and ran with it, but you may wish to start scaling the conclusions and next steps down a bit until there is a little more conclusive info to go off of. jumping from hypothesis to a foregone conclusion is never a good way to protect yourself.

    just a thought.
  • jayce wrote: RockerGirl, I am thrilled you took my hypothesis and ran with it, but you may wish to start scaling the conclusions and next steps down a bit until there is a little more conclusive info to go off of. jumping from hypothesis to a foregone conclusion is never a good way to protect yourself.
    I'm not jumping to any conclusions, all I am doing is trying to stay hot on the trail of this card fraud and not assume that someone from the subway or on the sidewalk did this, and therefore become complacent in thinking that it is a lost cause and that I can't catch them.

    I'm just going off what I know - that my card is always with me, except for when I hand it to someone else - and I am starting there. Also, it is coincidental that all of this is originating in the same neighborhood at the same time and not rampant all over the city, as it would tend to be if the thief was mobile. If I were a credit card thief at X-mas and had the ability to be mobile, why would I localize to Park Slope? I'd be on Park Avenue, UES, and in SoHo, personally.

    It is also looking like there may be victims who don't have RFID on their cards, which would point to a classic kind of theft.
  • I get all that. But the moment you started suggesting wrapping things in foil, I think it took a turn that wasn't so good. Further, there is no evidence of a store tie. And the thing that I love the most about park slope is the mom and pop shop feel of it. If you start inciting some kind of panic that stores are lifting card numbers I think you do a real disservice to hard working business owners. There is nothing indicating there is a store tie at all, as far as I can tell. And I could put a reader in my pocket and walk up and down 5th avenue on a friday night and achieve the same result.

    being hot on a trail is good so long as the trail has been vetted prior to chasing it down. Ask some questions and then let the investigators do the work. Right now I am kind of wishing I hadn't opened my mouth because when i hear about tin foil and the world going mad over this, good lord. Relax a little. Contribute what you know about you and let the appropriate people chase down the leads.

    also let me add we dont know if it is happening in other neighborhoods or not. I don't know too many people reading Manhattanian.com since it doesn't exist. Perhaps if we had some rapid fire media that could report on things the way Brooklynian and the PSP and Gowanus Lounge do in other neighborhoods in other boroughs you would find some commonalities there too. Just look at the links someone put a few back about some other state and city.
  • Jayce,
    I understand what you are saying and I feel the same way about Park Slope. And as someone stated earlier, I really don't think this will elicit any panic in anyone or anyone will spend less money in the Slope - I can say this having personally been a victim of this fraud and knowing that this won't personally change anything for me, other than more cash and less card use.

    The foil suggestion is silly, but is suggested as a home-made (and viable) alternative for people who are concerned in the short-term about protecting their cards. If you look up ways to protect your card, it's pretty much the most common suggestion, and thats why I posted it - just trying to help.

    Also, I subscribe to 30 different papers on my RSS feed, 20 of them being NYC-based. Plenty of Manhattan blogs and websites have mentioned this as a Park Slope issue, and while many of their commentors from Park Slope have chimed in that it happened to them as well, no large groups of people in Manhattan have mentioned anything thus far about it happening to them, leading me to believe this specific epidemic is most-likely local. Believe me, the first thing I did was check around to see if this was happening in other neighborhoods.

    I just started this thread to allow victims to communicate with eachother and the police, but this is turning into internet semantics. Someone earlier posted the name and number of the detective assigned to this case, so I suggest anyone involved give them a call and post any new information on here.
  • 2 things that we agree on, and then honestly... i am out. cause normally i get paid for this level of detail.

    1. it likely has a local origin. I just won't equate local to handing it to a store person. But I agree there is a local component to it. (train, 5th ave, postal route, who knows. assuming its occuring when you hand it over to a clerk has already defined your window of possibility way too narrow.)

    2. call the detective assigned to the case. and if your card has RFID, throw that tidbit in as it may be the commonality.

    good luck folks.
  • RockerGirl77 wrote: [quote=jayce]RockerGirl, I am thrilled you took my hypothesis and ran with it, but you may wish to start scaling the conclusions and next steps down a bit until there is a little more conclusive info to go off of. jumping from hypothesis to a foregone conclusion is never a good way to protect yourself.
    I'm not jumping to any conclusions, all I am doing is trying to stay hot on the trail of this card fraud and not assume that someone from the subway or on the sidewalk did this, and therefore become complacent in thinking that it is a lost cause and that I can't catch them.

    I'm just going off what I know - that my card is always with me, except for when I hand it to someone else - and I am starting there. Also, it is coincidental that all of this is originating in the same neighborhood at the same time and not rampant all over the city, as it would tend to be if the thief was mobile. If I were a credit card thief at X-mas and had the ability to be mobile, why would I localize to Park Slope? I'd be on Park Avenue, UES, and in SoHo, personally.
    .

    Do we actually know that this is exclusive to Park Slope? It seems that the sources for the information are park slope message boards which would limit the sample to park slope residents. I would suspect that this could be happening all over, but don't happen to read the message boards for nabes where I do not reside.
  • Does anyone know what the RFID chip would look like on a Citibank credit card????
  • barefoot wrote: [quote=RockerGirl77][quote=jayce]RockerGirl, I am thrilled you took my hypothesis and ran with it, but you may wish to start scaling the conclusions and next steps down a bit until there is a little more conclusive info to go off of. jumping from hypothesis to a foregone conclusion is never a good way to protect yourself.
    I'm not jumping to any conclusions, all I am doing is trying to stay hot on the trail of this card fraud and not assume that someone from the subway or on the sidewalk did this, and therefore become complacent in thinking that it is a lost cause and that I can't catch them.

    I'm just going off what I know - that my card is always with me, except for when I hand it to someone else - and I am starting there. Also, it is coincidental that all of this is originating in the same neighborhood at the same time and not rampant all over the city, as it would tend to be if the thief was mobile. If I were a credit card thief at X-mas and had the ability to be mobile, why would I localize to Park Slope? I'd be on Park Avenue, UES, and in SoHo, personally.
    .

    Do we actually know that this is exclusive to Park Slope? It seems that the sources for the information are park slope message boards which would limit the sample to park slope residents. I would suspect that this could be happening all over, but don't happen to read the message boards for nabes where I do not reside.

    There's a bubble of it in Brooklyn Heights too, according to what I read today on Gowanus Lounge.
    I bet there's plenty of credit card fraud of various sorts all over the place.
    We don't know if the Park Slope ones have one common origin, or (more likely, to my logic) many different rip-offs. We just don't know.
    LongTimeSloper wrote: One of the moderators on the Park Slope Parents board has contacted the 78th precinct on behalf of the PSP board members who have been victims.

    Without posting the entire post, she has said that if you live in Park Slope and have been a victim of credit fraud within the last 6 to 8 weeks and feel that there could be a local link, please contact Detective Shy at the 78th precinct. His number is 718 636 6483
    Thx for getting this info on the thread!
  • If a card has RFID, how close do you think you would need to be to that card to actually be able to read it? Personally, I think it would be highly unlikely that something without a significant power source could transmit information more than a few inches but I could be wrong.
  • 11st Parrot wrote: If a card has RFID, how close do you think you would need to be to that card to actually be able to read it? Personally, I think it would be highly unlikely that something without a significant power source could transmit information more than a few inches but I could be wrong.
    just a quick product check.

    according to these guys their thing can read up to 450 ft. probably not the same thing as a credit card reader :p. but shares same tech.
    haven't done research on any of these tech so wouldn't know hehe.
    http://www.iautomate.com/r500sp.html
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