Crown Heights Dress Code

whynot_31 · August 2014

Based on this thread, Ms Whynot and I visited Bunch O Bagels on Troy on this lovely Sunday morning.

We provide the following report:
The bagels were appropriately sized (ie not huge), had a good crust and were chewy. Ms. Whynot believes Bagel Hole's to be denser, and thus slightly better.

She had a sesame bagel with cream cheese. I had a poppyseed bagel with tuna salad. We bought OJ and water and ate there.

For those concerned about demographics and attire: During our 30 min stay, the customer base appeared 90% lubavitch. A black couple came in and ordered a bunch of bagels to go. Ms. Whynot was wearing jeans and a tshirt, as she often does. I wore shorts and a tshirt. One of the two cashiers was a black female, of the non-lubavitch variety.

Conclusion: This bagel place would definitely be an option for us if we lived closer to it, and wanted bagels on a Sunday. However, we will likely continue to buy bagels at Prospect Perk on Saturday mornings.

morralkan · August 2014

Only 90% ?

In any case, Crown Heights is definitely not Williamsburg and I've never felt self-conscious about dress here, nor have my visiting friends. My main complaint is about the lack of good restaurants within walking distance.

whynot_31 · August 2014

Ms. Whynot and I made up a sizable portion of the minority.

BTW, a site that serves (but does not officially represent) the Lubavitch community has posted this photo today:

http://crownheights.info/crown-heights-news/450018/picture-of-the-day-tznius-sign-response/

Seems as "valid" as the flyer one that stated this thread, and thus worth reposting.

southeast · August 2014

Nice!

morralkan · August 2014

I don't know that the other sign officially represented the Lubavitch community. In the past, I have seen a sign in one of the store windows along Kingston concerning appropriate attire for women. It was definitely a professionally printed sign and was obviously geared toward Lubavitch women and girls only. It quoted the rebbe, as I remember, and there was language used that only religious Jews would totally "get." I've never once seen a store sign here, à la Williamsburg, stating that proper attire was required in order to get service.

That being said, I will take a walk along Kingston tomorrow to see if this sign is still up. I know exactly where it has to be. While there are some nuts here in Jewish CH, it is a very small percentage. It's encouraging to see signs like this. By the way, there might have been a delay in this reaction because of the summer. Lots of Lubavitch go away to the mountains for the summer.

morralkan · August 2014

I finally remembered yesterday to look for this sign on Kingston Ave. It had been removed or perhpas a heavy rain removed it. In any event, I walking from Empire Blvd up to EP along Kingston and not only was this sign gone, but there was not a single "modest dress, please" sign there either. (I can't read Hebrew, so I will admit that I would not have been able to recognize or understand such a sign. In any event, such a sign in Hebrew would clearly not have been intended for the general public and there are really very few Lubavitch women walking around in mini-skirts.)

whynot_31 · August 2014

"I don't know that the other sign officially represented the Lubavitch community"

Correct. Unless you are elected, one only represents one's self.

morralkan · August 2014

When I left my house this morning, I found a couple of 5 x 7 glossy cards on my front steps and noticed that they seem to have been left on all the front steps as I walked over to Kingston Ave. I did not check any further since I had a bus to catch to my dental appointment.

In any case, they are in color and have the same design and text, front and back:

Attention

Love & Respect

Dear Resident, Guest, Visitor

Please dress modestly as this is a Jewish neighborhood

Thank you for respecting our neighborhood

The visual includes a few clouds, two of which are in the form of hearts, seemingly set on a blue sky, with some grass along the bottom edge.

I have to say, I find this extensive distribution of the message rather disturbing. While I am Jewish and there are a lot of Jews living here. they are certainly not the majority on most of the blocks, so how this is a "Jewish neighborhood" I don't know. Even if it were, I don't like this politely Taliban-ic message. My guess is that this is not the product of any official Lubavitch board. More likely, this was produced by some local busybodies who think they know what's best for this community.

newguy88 · August 2014

@morralkan Could you scan and post the card please?

morralkan · August 2014

I'll give it a shot in the morning.

nothinlikeabklyngirl · August 2014

Sounds exactly like the original sign that started this thread.

From Gothamist:

Esperanza · August 2014

Holy macaroni, can this lead to a lawsuit? This seems over the top by putting these on personal property and an infringement of some sort.

whynot_31 · August 2014

I think a response that involves a "bathing suit encouraged" block party would be more effective.

I'd use the term Daisy Dukes Outfits, but I am not sure it is universally understood.

newguy88 · August 2014

@Esperanza This is America you can sue anybody for anything. How successful your lawsuit will be is an entirely different matter. I doubt a lawsuit over this would enjoy much success.

dl · August 2014

@morralkan, your guess that this is the work of some local busybodies is accurate. Many, many members of the observant Jewish community are as annoyed about these posters and cards as you are (rightly so) and perhaps most concerned about the negative impression it can make on newcomers to the neighborhood. The average observant Jew you pass on the street does NOT stand behind this.

MOD · August 2014

When I left my house this morning, I found a couple of 5 x 7 glossy cards on my front steps and noticed that they seem to have been left on all the front steps as I walked over to Kingston Ave. I did not check any further since I had a bus to catch to my dental appointment.

In any case, they are in color and have the same design and text, front and back:

Attention
Love & Respect
Dear Resident, Guest, Visitor
Please dress modestly as this is a Jewish neighborhood
Thank you for respecting our neighborhood

The visual includes a few clouds, two of which are in the form of hearts, seemingly set on a blue sky, with some grass along the bottom edge.

I have to say, I find this extensive distribution of the message rather disturbing. While I am Jewish and there are a lot of Jews living here. they are certainly not the majority on most of the blocks, so how this is a "Jewish neighborhood" I don't know. Even if it were, I don't like this politely Taliban-ic message. My guess is that this is not the product of any official Lubavitch board. More likely, this was produced by some local busybodies who think they know what's best for this community.

I had this random though last night while reading this thread. What if this is just some prank, offline trolling, to pull peoples chain, get both sides worked up? Cause a little drama in an already turbulent nabe?

eastbloc · August 2014

I bet the odds are good that whoever is responsible for these signs is also among the biggest pervs in the community.

southeast · August 2014

@morralkan, your guess that this is the work of some local busybodies is accurate. Many, many members of the observant Jewish community are as annoyed about these posters and cards as you are (rightly so) and perhaps most concerned about the negative impression it can make on newcomers to the neighborhood. The average observant Jew you pass on the street does NOT stand behind this.

Agree.

whynot_31 · August 2014

"I had this random though last night while reading this thread. What if this is just some prank, offline trolling, to pull peoples chain, get both sides worked up? Cause a little drama in an already turbulent nabe? "

Mamacita-
That is certainly possible. So far, this person has probably spent less than $25 on color copies.

The thing about responding to it (my half witted block party idea) is that the attendees would be unfortunately punishing the entire community for the actions of a very few.

After all, most of us don't look that great in bathing suits.

whynot_31 · September 2014

Crown Heights as a place to discover and define yourself, as young (presumably orthodox) jew:

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/184380/the-road-to-the-new-jerusalem

whynot_31 · November 2014

@xlizellx -

Here's a video on the topic of Crown Heights Dress Code that might sit better with you:

http://www.refinery29.com/inside-hasidic-fashion?utm_content=buffer4d540&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

whynot_31 · March 2015

@dl @morralkan @southeast

@morralkan, your guess that this is the work of some local busybodies is accurate. Many, many members of the observant Jewish community are as annoyed about these posters and cards as you are (rightly so) and perhaps most concerned about the negative impression it can make on newcomers to the neighborhood. The average observant Jew you pass on the street does NOT stand behind this.

Closely related topic-
Do you perceive the "average observant jew" in Crown Heights as supporting these women, who feel that "gets" should not have to be "gotten"?

http://crownheights.info/communal-matters/477730/activists-plan-gett-protest-in-crown-heights/

For those who have no idea what a get is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_(divorce_document)

dl · March 2015

@whynot_31, I'm not sure if this question is directed at me, or if I am qualified to answer. I think the simplest answer is, yes, in the abstract, the vast, vast majority of people in the Lubavitch community think that a woman who wants to be out of a marriage should be able to do so. In fact, the people who do oppose activism like this march never do so on the grounds that it is ok to keep a woman "chained," rather, they tend to be opposed to the methods used to protest.

When it comes to a particular case, there is always a "he said, she said," element, and some members of the community have more faith in the rabbis and rabbinic courts to enforce justice, and others tend to view the rabbinic authorities more skeptically.

This particular event is more political, because it is associated with a particularly charged local story, but I don't know enough about the details to comment on that in a public forum.

Crown Heights Dress Code

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