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The Repurposing of the Armory at Bedford and UNION - Page 4 — Brooklynian

The Repurposing of the Armory at Bedford and UNION

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  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    The heads of local community groups recently met in order to form a united front, and demand that they be consulted.

    Rabbi Eli Cohen, the President of the
    Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, Vaughan Tony from the Friends of Crown Heights, Frank Esquilin, the President of Crow Hill Community Association and Jacqueline Welch of Community Board #9 and Neighborhood Advisory Board #14.

    "We all look forward to working together in our Community with the City on transforming the Armory to a community based location!"


    image
  • southeast
    southeast
    Which one of these local community groups include representation of community members who've recently moved to CH (e.g., gentrifiers)?  These seem to be the "old guard."
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    Correct. Their agenda seems to be as stated above:

    --->This new "association of associations" is seemingly partial to Steiner, and let them use their name in the proposal.

    If Steiner gets the award, he wants to make sure that most of the jobs go to local residents, and that "the community" has ongoing input and control.

    He believes Steiner has a good shot at getting the award, but is afraid that Steiner will not follow thru on their assurances to him (and "the community").

    If Steiner doesn't get the award, he wants to have similar "influence" over the bidder that does win. He wants EDC to mandate the winner abide by whatever demands this coalition creates. <---


    However, as stated above, I do not believe they will be successful.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2014
    Which one of these local community groups include representation of community members who've recently moved to CH (e.g., gentrifiers)?  These seem to be the "old guard."
    What would the significance be of having a "gentrifier" to represent some community members? What would their interests be? How would these differ from those of "the old guard"?


  • southeast
    southeast
    edited September 2014
    @mugofmead111 - I think it is safe to assume that the newcomers have different wants/needs than those living here for a while.  A newcomer's family dynamics and income profile is likely very different.
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    Do we have a sense of when the winner will be announced?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    The process keeps being delayed.

    I suspect that the affordable housing component and the "big space" component must be arranged at the same time.

    The latter might subsidize the former.
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    Ah, makes sense. Delays like these bring out my inner capitalist/authoritarian, which just wants to scream "build SOMETHING, dammit!"
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    @mugofmead111 - I think it is safe to assume that the newcomers have different wants/needs than those living here for a while.  A newcomer's family dynamics and income profile is likely very different.
    That doesn't answer the question of what the interests of the newcomers are, or how these may differ from those of long-term residents. :)
  • grwd
    grwd
    If there is affordable housing component, I'd like to it be an affordable co-op (instead of a rental) so that the longtime Crown Heights residents who are in danger of being displaced can gain a foothold in the neighborhood. This way they don't have to worry about getting kicked out when the program expires in 20 or 30 years. Also, when it's time to sell, they will be able to make some money and get a slice of the real estate price appreciation pie for themselves, bringing them into the middle class, and helping to eliminate the need to stay in subsidized housing without an end date.
  • booklaw
    booklaw
    I wonder whether the concept of "affordable co-op" isn't internally inconsistent. The owners of a co-op are responsible for all real estate taxes, mortgage payments, water/sewer charges, and costs of maintaining the building, including unanticipated costs of repairing broken boilers, pipes, elevators, exterior brickwork/pointing, etc., etc.

    While the initial purchase price may be affordable, I don't know how anyone can be sure that the monthly maintenance charges will remain affordable.
  • southeast
    southeast
    @mugofmead111 - I am trying to avoid particulars; it was just a question thrown out there.  :) 

    However, an affordable housing component would be a good example; I'm sure there are some newcomers that wouldn't put in extra effort to get this done.  They may, however, spend more time and energy focusing on getting a Trader Joe's (an idea mentioned above).
  • southeast
    southeast
    edited September 2014
    I wonder whether the concept of "affordable co-op" isn't internally inconsistent. The owners of a co-op are responsible for all real estate taxes, mortgage payments, water/sewer charges, and costs of maintaining the building, including unanticipated costs of repairing broken boilers, pipes, elevators, exterior brickwork/pointing, etc., etc.

    While the initial purchase price may be affordable, I don't know how anyone can be sure that the monthly maintenance charges will remain affordable.
    Umm... A dilemma faced by homeowners/landlords everywhere, including those CH landlords we love to pick on who have rent controlled or rent stabilized units as their maintenance costs go up.
  • grwd
    grwd
    @southeast, @booklaw,

    I admit I don't know the particulars of how the financing works. I know that Crown Gardens at Nostrand and Crown Street is an example of a Mitchell-Lama era affordable co-op. It's been around for a generation or two.

    A more recently developed example, is a building at Throop and Lafayette called "The Shelton", which has units affordable at different percentages of the area median income, as well as market-rate units (the ones with the nicest views).

    While it doesn't work for everybody, it's just one tool to help encourage economic mobility, and to avoid creating places which are intended only for one price-tagged population (which are usually boring places).
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2014
    @mugofmead111 - I am trying to avoid particulars; it was just a question thrown out there.  :) 

    However, an affordable housing component would be a good example; I'm sure there are some newcomers that wouldn't put in extra effort to get this done.  They may, however, spend more time and energy focusing on getting a Trader Joe's (an idea mentioned above).
    Hey. I grew up in the neighborhood. While I want to affordable housing to be preserved (for my own selfish reason as well as for the benefit of my neighbors), I also want to see a Trader Joe's move in! (I dream of the day of being able to walk to such amenities instead of having to take the bus or the train to get certain things. That was my life for decades.)The interests of newcomers and long-term residents may not be mutually exclusive. They are not for this long-term resident. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    They certainly are not mutually exclusive.

    At the mtg I attended though, there was a much greater focus on whatever comes to the drill hall being affordable, then I think the majority of the present customer base of -say- Berg'n would voice.

    Likewise, I heard a lot about wanting to make sure the jobs that will be created go to long time residents. Because I imagine most of the jobs of whatever comes will pay around $12 an hour, I do not see young people with lots of opportunities and resources being especially concerned about them potentially going to someone else.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
     Likewise, I heard a lot about wanting to make sure the jobs will be created go to long time residents. Because I imagine most of the jobs of whatever comes will pay around $12 an hour, I do not see young people with lots of opportunities and resources being especially concerned about them potentially going to someone else.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the local politicians were to echo that sentiment as well.  Eric Adams was telling us last night that he's facing employment numbers in the double digits. 

    There is something very appealing about being able to walk to work. :) 
  • nothinlikeabklyngirl
    nothinlikeabklyngirl
    @grwd, There's also the Maynard, 1509 Bergen at Schenectady, a 47-unit subsidized cooperative that opened in 2010: http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2010/03/the-maynard-lau/

    I don't know how affordable the maintenance costs have been over these past four years. But at least there's hope; affordable co-ops aren't impossible.
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    I propose another use for the Bedford Union Armory -- a Longsword Training Facility! How "brooklyn" would that be?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/sports/for-longsword-a-comeback-ages-in-the-making.html
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I was told tonight that the EDC, the Mayors Office, and anyone else that can get in front of a microphone will finally announce what will become of the Armory in the Nov or Dec of this year (2104).
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    Imagine this rectangle: Nostrand, Atlantic, Washington, Empire.

    Now, think about these statements: The subsidized housing to be constructed behind this armory will be the first new construction of subsidized housing in the above rectangle in more than 30 years. It is at least 3 years away from completion, and no other projects are planned.

    I believe the above statements to be accurate.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Here's a list of how the various armories around NYC are being used today:

    http://untappedcities.com/2014/09/26/22-of-nycs-remaining-armories-and-how-theyre-used-today/

    Note, contrary to what the article states, I believe the NYS National Guard unit no longer has place in "our" armory. I believe they left when control of the armory was transferred to the city from NYS.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited October 2014
    The Bedford Union Armory Community-Wide Discussions have been scheduled!

    Please join NYCEDC, Borough President Adams, Council Member Cumbo, and Assembly Member Mosley at one of two upcoming meetings:

    • Sunday, October 19th from 4:00pm - 6:30pm at First Baptist Church of Crown Heights Fellowship Hall, 450 Eastern Parkway, or

    • Tuesday October 21st from 6:00pm - 8:30pm at Friends of Crown Heights, 671 Prospect Place)

    Please RSVP to the event here: http://www.nycedc.com/news-press/events/bedford-union-armory-forum-rsvp
  • lilern
    lilern
    Is MTOPP going to disrupt these as well?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    As a result of the event being RSVP, I suspect it will be more orderly.

    The armory will serve a wide geographic area, so I expect lots of competing interests and groups to attend.

    I think it is safe to say that it doesn't matter how the armory ends up being used, some people will dislike it.

    If the politicians are smart they will use the lot behind the drill hall to create supportive housing for persons with disabilities or presently in shelters. That way it will silence the folks who say the city is deliberately pricing them out, and they can talk about how they are helping people less fortunate.

    This strategy is often known as Divide and Conquer.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    Is MTOPP going to disrupt these as well?
    If Alicia Boyd were to sign up under her real name, would TPTB try to ban her from the event?

    If a critical mass of MTOPP were to sign up, then...

    image
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited October 2014
    No one will be banned from the event, but lots of people will complain they weren't able to register.

    Listen closely, you can hear advocates for the poor typing that their folks don't have internet access and thus the EDC's RSVP system is inherently discriminatory...

    Note, the EDC is not under an obligation to have everyone attend, or even abide by people's concerns.

    They just need to hold a few meetings, and then state in their formal report how they held the meetings and tried to meeting everyone's concerns, but could not.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    No one will be banned from the event, but lots of people will complain they weren't able to register.

    Listen closely, you can hear advocates for the poor typing that their folks don't have internet access and thus the EDC's RSVP system is inherently discriminatory...

    Note, the EDC is not under an obligation to have everyone attend, or even abide by people's concerns.

    They just need to hold a few meetings, and then state in their formal report how they held the meetings and tried to meeting everyone's concerns, but could not.
    Then we're going to hear similar complaints like the ones voiced at the last CB9 meeting re: the input that lead to the infamous resolution. "You didn't ask us."
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    It is ok to move forward despite such complaints.

    The EDC has fiscal and time constraints, which cause it to not be able to engage all people effectively, despite its efforts to overcome same.

    It is not a problem of intent. Next.
  • grwd
    grwd
    edited October 2014
    Please correct me if I am mistaken, but this is the time to tell the EDC that we want the Armory to be a large indoor aquarium, right?

    And then the meeting is spent going around the room sharing stories about how an aquarium would be absolutely amazing, and then at the end of the meeting we each get an "I built a consensus" sticker and a personalized invitation to come to the grand opening of the aquarium in 2019, right?

    ...Or is the RFP selection process wrapping up and this is where they take a reading of public sentiment to make sure they're choosing the right one?
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