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"Program" People — Brooklynian

"Program" People

Anyone know anything about federal/state/city agencies which rent apartments and provide them to "program" people?  There is a building in my area which seems to be getting its fill of action/drama.  The police have been there quite a few times recently, and apparently, the mail-carrier is not making deliveries there anymore.  I have no clue who these "program" people are, but this is how the building's super describes them.

From discussions with the building's super and mail-carrier, it seems that the landlord is leasing the newly renovated apartments to an "agency" which provides them to "program" people, some of which, apparently, are frequent guests of Kings County Hospital.  It seems that the cycle is as follows: someone lives in the "agency" apartment for a couple of months; for one reason or another, police are called multiple times; the person causing issues is removed by a "case worker;" locks are changed; the apartment is provided to a different "program" person.  This process is repeated as necessary.  

I was told to expect more action/drama at this address in the future as the landlord recently decided to target/market the apartments to this "agency" due to the reliable rental payments.

Comments

  • Why are these tenants frequent guests at Kings County? Are they being taken to the R-building?
  • whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    This mode of housing is known as "scatter site" supportive housing.

    A variety of nonprofits offer it thoughout the NYC area, and receive a combination of NYC, NYS and federal funding to do so.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=scatter+site+supportive+housing&hl=en&gbv=2&oq=&gs_l=

    The goal of the housing is to keep clients out of more expensive settings: jails, prisons, psychiatric hospitals, etc.
  • Why are these tenants frequent guests at Kings County? Are they being taken to the R-building?
    I think it is safe to assume so.
    This mode of housing is known as "scatter site" supportive housing.

    A vairety of nonprofits offer it thoughout the NYC area, and receive a combination of NYC, NYS and federal funding to do so.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=scatter+site+supportive+housing&hl=en&gbv=2&oq=&gs_l=

    The goal of the housing is to keep clients out of more expensive settings: jails, prisons, psychiatric hospitals, etc.
    @whynot_31 - Do you have any idea as to the NYC/NYS/federal requirements are of the building; I presume they won't just fund housing in any building (e.g., say one with many violations), or is that not the case?

    Also, is there anything neighbors can do to stop this (e.g., petition due to safety of neighborhood children, nearby schools, etc.)?
  • Also, is there a listing of buildings that have applied for these types of programs?  I am trying to find some details on this - building information, which particular organization, how to complain/petition, etc., but the search results seem to be only marketing/selling this cause.
  • whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    Sometimes the non-profits obtain leases for the apartments in the entire building, but more often they a few leases for apartments within a building. As a result, there is no list.

    The requirements for the apartments vary by funding source, but they all are supposed to be in pretty good shape. Here's a list of the requirements for a HUD funded unit:

    http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=DOC_11775.pdf

    Landlords agree to these arrangements because they believe that they will be paid more for the "program tenants" than tenants who would regulary rent in their buildings.

    If the market changes for the better, the landlords stop accepting such arrangements.

    Are the buildings actually in good shape? Well, at present, NYC's shelter system is overflowing and housing at the low end of the market is scarce, so this ties the hands of nonprofits who would otherwise remove their clients from a lousy building.

  • @whynot_31 - Thank you very much for this.  While I understand the objective, having this nearby is very scary and not in the best interest of the neighbors/neighborhood.
  • What does the law say about housing the mentally ill near those who are part of the general population (for the lack of a better term)? 

    If some (mentally ill) tenants who are a "danger" to the community, why are they not being involuntarily committed? Oh, wait...that's because under the current system, it is very difficult to have someone involuntarily committed. 

    I am sympathetic to both sides here. This seems to be a symptom of a larger problem. 
  • whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    There are lots of similar programs around, but most of the time neighbors aren't aware that these programs/people exist. ...because they are, for the most part, harmless.

    And, as @mugofmead points out, there are few alternatives that don't impact upon cost and personal rights. Long term hospitals and group homes are now rare, and the only real institutions that remain are jails, prisons and shelters.

    Each is filled with these populations described, and scatter site programs provide a pretty good cost savings to the funders.
  • I used to work for a housing first agency in the neighborhood and as described above, the agency would hold the lease on the apartment and then the client would pay 30% of the cost of the rent (the remainder was covered through a variety of other funding sources).  I can appreciate the concerns of people living in the building, as there were times where I thought to myself that I wouldn't want to live in such a building either. 

     

    You can have people hospitalized if they meet the criteria of danger to self or others, but even then there's nothing to preclude that person from returning to the same apartment (or switching two problematic tenants thinking that maybe a change of scenery will help).  If you complain to management they may be less inclined to renew the lease, but that may have as much to do with being able to attract other tenants than anything else.  There's a big focus on integration, meaning having people with mental illnesses integrated into the larger population.  As such, arrangements like this are becoming increasingly common.  Even advocates for the mentally ill sometimes find themselves caught between their ideals and NIMBY type thinking.  The question of what to do with the seriously mentally ill is an issue that has been wrangled over for many, many years and I'd imagine that it's an issue we'll continue to struggle with as a society for many of the aforementioned reasons.  There are no easy answers, and there are many mentally ill individuals who are good tenants.  That doesn't make it any easier when an emotionally disturbed person is making your life a nightmare.

  • whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    A lot of people think that the integration (imposition?) of persons with mental
    illness is due to some local agency or politician.

    In actuality, it is the Olmstead supreme court decision being implemented.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmstead_v._L.C.

    NYS delayed implementing it for as long as they could, and now can no longer house nonincarcerated, noninstituionized people in segregated settings.

    While group homes and other congregate care settings used to be the norm, "they" now predominantly reside in scatter site apartments, living right next door to people who work and pay market rents.

    Needless to say, the wealthier neighborhoods are out of reach of the agencies and the people they serve, and finding landlords that will accept such tenants is becoming more difficult.

    @mcpoet - please see your PM.





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