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Will the franklin avenue tide move east or south? Place yer bets. - Page 2 — Brooklynian

Will the franklin avenue tide move east or south? Place yer bets.

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  • mike dunlap
    mike dunlap
    edited September 2014
    Actually, I forgot, in the list of the already new and open on Nostrand: Martine's Dream, Chop Chop Grubshop, NoBar, Nostrand pub, NA Bagels, Connecticut Muffin, and probably a few others...

    Richol (late 2012).  

    The best bakery in Crown Heights, by a very good margin, imho.  The place is ridiculous.
  • mike dunlap
    mike dunlap
    @WhyNot_31, did you by any chance mean to say, "young, high earning people that are moving into the apartments..."?
    Seriously.
  • TinaTot
    TinaTot
    edited September 2014
    Historically, one factor contributing to the lack of development south of the Parkway is the fact you essentially have a couple miles south of EP with no residential housing.  In order, you have: Prospect Park, Brooklyn Library, Mt. Prospect Park, Brooklyn Botanic Garden, Brooklyn Museum, schools, and then finally, residential housing.  Because of this, development has occurred more linearly and progressively north of EP.  

    I would think this would, at least going forward, encourage retail growth south of EP. CH West has a reputation beyond our own boarders now and visitors who don't know the layout of the area are regularly confused. This summer I've seen many more of the day-trippers than in the past who have visited the museum or botanic garden only to get lost on Washington and Franklin looking for a place to eat because they don't understand how the neighborhood is still divided into pockets of "developed" and "not developed" still. I think this show a lot of potential for at least Franklin South since it's so close to the entrances of the garden and museum. I'm not a fan of the new Starbucks (grew up with and like to support Mom & Pop stores) but with the tour groups, buses, and escapist Manhattenites, there's a lot of room for interesting and niche restaurants to open up on Franklin since there's no place to put anything on Washington and Franklin North's reputation for good eating will possibly just transfer on South.

    Can't speak for going further East while South of EP since, as I mentioned before, I'm too lazy to walk far (although that said, I was by the Armory not to long ago and hope it has a beautiful resurgence no matter what it becomes - similar to the revival of the Park Avenue Armory which was falling apart and is now being restored and preserved by the insanely rich people who live near it.)
  • dmiami2
    dmiami2
    By the way, hey, @whynot_31, any guesses as to what will move into the commercial space at 90 Sullivan Place? :) It's midway between Franklin and Nostrand, and just behind that stretch of Empire that people are begging to have rezoned. ;)
    Ebbets field apartments will be torn down, a new stadium will be built and the Dodgers will move back to Brooklyn before 90 Sullivan Place is completed.   Therefore the commercial space should focus on selling Dodgers jerseys and 32oz Bud Lites.  
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2014


    I would think this would, at least going forward, encourage retail growth south of EP. CH West has a reputation beyond our own boarders now and visitors who don't know the layout of the area are regularly confused. This summer I've seen many more of the day-trippers than in the past who have visited the museum or botanic garden only to get lost on Washington and Franklin looking for a place to eat because they don't understand how the neighborhood is still divided into pockets of "developed" and "not developed" still.
    Once I encountered a young man on Franklin near Empire Boulevard asking where "Sterling" was. Sterling Street was one block away, but it took me a minute to figure out that was probably not what he was looking for as Sterling Street is purely residential. I had to explain that he was looking for Sterling Place, and that would have been a 15 minute (or 20?) minute walk up the hill in the other direction.

  • mcpoet
    mcpoet

    Yeah, I think the Sterlings and Lincolns confuse a lot of people.  It's almost as bad as living in Queens, where there's a 57th road, street, avenue, place, lane, cul-de-sac, dead end, etc., etc., etc....

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    This thread now has me craving a 32 oz Bud Light.
  • mcpoet
    mcpoet
    I'd settle for a Guinness at a Dodger's game at the new, improved, and rebuilt Ebbet's Field.  I think my expectations may be too high though.  I should probably just settle for a Bud Light.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    I'd settle for a Guinness at a Dodger's game at the new, improved, and rebuilt Ebbet's Field. 
    Where's that going to go, on Empire Boulevard? That'd be better than the various storage places, no? :) 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    The 32 oz part may be more important than the specific brand of beer.

    @mugofmead -
    Are you going to set up that Fall gathering you mentioned at Midwood once it opens?

    It is South.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    @whynot_31 - I'll consider it depending on what's involved and once I've check out the spot. :) 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Based on past experience, one simply picks a week night that it is not historically busy, then declares the event will occur about 3 weeks in advance of the event.

    It is up to you whether to tell readers we are all good looking.

  • Dawndew
    Dawndew
    @crownheightster - I agree with you 100%. Nostrand is presently what 5th Avenue in Park Slope was in 2007.

    By 2017, Nostrand will be what 5th Avenue is now.
    Nostrand looks like 5th ave in 1999-2001 really. And it will not be like 5th ave is now as soon as 2017. Have you been there lately, 5th is packed solid with successful businesses.  that is going to take time to sort out what will survive.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    We will know in 2017.

    Actually, we won't even know then because we lack objective definitions. Carry on.
  • Dawndew
    Dawndew
    We will know in 2017.

    Actually, we won't even know then because we lack objective definitions. Carry on.
    that is why this is a blog and it is so satisfying to speculate
  • MasTacos
    MasTacos
    I also mostly fit the demographic described by @TinaTot and @whynot_31

    I moved to south CH in 2010 after graduating from college in another state. My choice of neighborhood was largely due to financial reasons which I found ironic at the time because I was an analyst at a top investment bank with a relatively high income and still found it difficult to rent an apartment in CH.

    Four years later, I'm ready for a change (probably within brooklyn) but don't know where to move!
  • Esperanza
    Esperanza
    South Bronx is interesting. As is Riverdale (if you have wheels). Washington Heights still has some reasonable rents. Plus there is the Dominican culture up there.
  • notsayin
    notsayin
    Even the dollar stores on Washington Avenue want a piece of the Franklin Avenue magic these days.

    Frank's 99 cent on Washington near St Marks recently repainted their awning - and went with the upgrade "Franklin 99 Cents and Up"

  • notsayin
    notsayin
    image
  • Dawndew
    Dawndew
    I think the more positive things we say here about the Eastern movement the more we influence it happening. Positive thoughts are infectious....
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2014
    We should probably try to sound as if we are young, childless, and have comparitively lots of disposable income.

    Classic, fun reading on the topic:
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/sometimes-i-feel-like-im-the-only-one-trying-to-ge,11249/

  • suppleknuckles
    suppleknuckles
    i've noticed this too. i used to live on washington and Dean and after a while, many of the business on washington started touting the Crown Heights name, as opposed to Prospect Heights, which they had been preferring when i moved in.

    as for my "bets", I'm banking on south of EP, all the way. I'm definitely biased--i just bought an apartment near the Parkside Ave Q stop--but i have one completely objective reason as to why south C Heights and PLG are the safest bets for improving: proximity to Prospect Park. Brower Park and Eastern Parkway will simply never compare to the immense value of Prospect Park. And now that Lakeside has been completely renovated just this year, people are going to start realizing it's the most beautiful corner of the park with the most to offer. I go on runs around PP and i realize all the western side of the park has is the bandshell and a bunch of fenced off space that's used as the PP Alliance headquarters and maintenance vehicles. The PLG side, on the other hand, now has lakeside, ice skating, Bluestone (real food and beer/wine?), the zoo, a carousel, the boathouse, Lefferts House--and that's not even mentioning the southern entrance to the BBG which is slated to open within the next few years.  

    Also, I think the beautiful housing stock of C Heights east of Nostrand only goes so far, and is being snapped up in a ridiculously speculative fashion. Not sure that will really cause the kind of growth of businesses that people are hoping for. and besides, i think that area will ultimately become very family-oriented and suburban--which is not what caused the changes in Franklin Ave (young apartment dwellers living in denser quarters like 4-6 story apartment buildings--sounds a lot like Flatbush Ave in PLG to me.) I also have high hopes for Rogers ave in the manor district because of the beautiful wide sidewalks that could easily accommodate foot traffic. i went to an art show in a DIY gallery space on Rogers a few months ago--why not even more places like that? 

    anyway that's my 2 cents. even if all the shuttered businesses on Flatbush remain as such for the next 10 years, at least I'll be able to walk 5 minutes and be in the best park in the city...!
  • Dawndew
    Dawndew
    Nice enjoyable 2 cents!. But curious, don't you have speculators there too?
  • southeast
    southeast
    edited November 2014
    @suppleknuckles - Very good points regarding the park and so true.

    I'm hoping east of Nostrand quickly turns towards how you described it, "very family-oriented and suburban."  I am not sure if suburban is how I would describe it, but I'll take it.  The businesses will come...  

    And southeastern CH is a nice walk from the beautiful side of the park you describe.  Win/win for me.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    @suppleknuckles - Very good points regarding the park and so true.

    I'm hoping east of Nostrand quickly turns towards how you described it, "very family-oriented and suburban."  
    I think the Lubavitchers who live in CH east of Nostrand would consider it to be "family-oriented". :) 

    @suppleknuckles - The proximity to the Q train in lower Crown Heights/PLG is a major plus for any shifts that may occur in that area. P.S. There is also that farmer's market by GAP on Saturday mornings. One can walk there or take the B41.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    As discussed on the "Here she comes thread", my money is on Flatbush between Empire and Church.


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