Vision Zero picks up speed
Comments
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If automobile drivers were following the laws, traffic rules, etc, then how would enforcement be overly punitive to the average law-abiding driver? [/devil's advocate]
Finally, it should be applied to all drivers of automobiles, but in such a manner as not to be overly punitive, in the sense of trying to discourage all drivers from ever sitting behind the wheel of a car.After that it should be applied to cops, who are apparently taught that the rules of the road do not apply to them, even when they're just on their way home or to cadge free coffee and donuts from a local shop.
Like the officer who struck and killed pedestrian Ryo Oyamada? -
A 25 mph speed limit on a major thoroughfare like Eastern Parkway or Atlantic Avenue is punitive. It says to drivers, "this city doesn't want you. Go away."
It would be much, much better to flood the streets with cop cars, and with speed and red light cameras, to enforce a 35 mph speed limit, then to make all drivers crawl so as to prevent a few bad eggs from recklessly racing. -
I would also favor strict enforcement of relaxed traffic laws against bicyclists... I see no reason why bikers should have to waste hard-built momentum by stopping at stop signs or red lights when there are no cars or pedestrians at or near the intersection.
So require bicyclists to do a "rolling stop"... I.e. To slow down sufficiently to ensure that they are not endangering themselves or others by blowing through the intersection, and heavily fine or even jail the reckless few who ignore even those relaxed requirements. -
What is great about "enforcement" as a topic is that everyone can say that if the laws were enforced on others, they would -in turn- respect the law. However, no one wants to be the first group the enforcement is levied against.So, we create situations (ie speed limits) in which virtually everyone is breaking the law, and then:- complain that the police use discretion when they enforce it.- wonder why the court system is clogged with personal injury lawsuits.It's all kinda self supporting.
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In this city, the police have rarely enforced traffic laws. We also have a frightening number of unlicensed, uninsured drivers.
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I suspect they are among those with the least to lose in a civil suit.
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In this city, the police have rarely enforced traffic laws. We also have a frightening number of unlicensed, uninsured drivers.
I'm pretty sure the insurance won't be terribly eager to pay out for people with fake registrations in PA/GA/whatever, either. -
@mugofmead111 Blast it all! You have stumbled upon my master plan to rid the world of cars by removing all the gas stations everywhere! *Evil genius laughs*
*No such plan exists. Nor do I wish to have such a plan.
We saw the chaos & violence when we ran out of gas after Storm Sandy. Life would be extremely different. -
Several months ago a Deputy DOT Commissioner stated at a press conference announcing a new 25MPH speed zone somewhere that (I'm para - phrasing) this lower speed limit will help prevent injuries to jay walkers. He used the word "jaywalkers".
Growing up in NYC I was taught that as long as you wait your turn (on the sidewalk) to cross the street, it doesn't matter how fast the cars are driving while you wait for the light to change. Some streets were 25MPH some were 30MPH some were 40MPH
I think this concept is still true. And as a driver I resent that because government can not control blatant jay walking, it has resorted to lowering speed limits with the mantra: if hit by a car at 25 mph you have a greater chance of living.
They're throwing up their hands in failure.
Its akin to someone stealing your garbage cans.
You cant stop him so you just put out fewer cans for him to steal. -
@wirenut I just want to reiterate that was a joke. I fully understand and realize that we need gas stations.The problem is people no longer feel the need to pay attention when they Jaywalk. They stare down at smartphones with earbuds in blazing music so they don't hear or see anything. Jaywalking is here to stay I fear and as drivers, and cyclists, it's our legal and moral obligation to watch out for them. As per the law which requires drivers to exercise due caution according to road conditions. When was the last time a jaywalker injured or killed anyone other than themselves. Yet cars kill people every single freaking day. If you can't handle jaywalkers you have no business being behind a wheel in NYC.Frankly, after three years on a bicycle I've learned to watch out for jaywalkers at crosswalks or in the middle of certain streets i.e. danger points. Like cars I expected them to do the most unexpected thing and the most on expected time. That being said they are the last group of road users to not be hit by a ticketing blitz. And you know what? I'm OK with that the police should focus their time on attention on cars you know the multi-ton vehicles that actually kill and maim large numbers of people each year. That being said would it kill people to look up before they cross the street against the light? Seriously would it?How can the government control it? It's part of NYC culture in a way we eat dirty water dogs and walk against the light. The only way they could control it would be to put fences along all streets and have railroad style gates at all intersections. Really people need to look up and that goes for drivers too. At least once on every single ride I take I see a driver texting, playing with a navigation system, or talking on a phone.I don't believe the speed limit was lowered to protect jaywalkers.The reason many safe street advocates wanted 20 and settled for 25 MPH speed limit because if you're hit at the speed you are much more likely to survive. Could you find me a link where any DOT employee suggested the speed limit was to keep jaywalkers safe?
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A 25 mph speed limit on a major thoroughfare like Eastern Parkway or Atlantic Avenue is punitive. It says to drivers, "this city doesn't want you. Go away."
Those are regular city streets, not full highways.One can argue that it's a shame that a full highway that goes through the middle of Brooklyn (the Prospect Expressway and the Interboro [I still use the old name] Parkway aren't sufficient), but that ship has sailed. -
Newguy I knew you were joking but it was still interesting to see the chaos that broke out.
I saw the Deputy Commissioner speaking on a news broadcast. I dont remember which station but I am going to search around.
There's no doubt jaywalkers are here to stay. I have been dealing with them and avoided hitting them for 35 years (so far) maybe I will hit one when Im old and senile. (No I am not yet)
One of my other complaints is that the speed cameras I have located so far are NOT at locations that I know to be collision/injury prone. They appear to be where the temptation for speeding is greatest. Such as Belt Pkwy Service Road ramp near Ocean Pkwy Per several news reports this one camera did 1500 plus tickets in one day on July 7, 2014 for a total of $77,000 that day alone. This spot is a combined exit / entrance ramp. You would expect drivers to be transitioning from highway to street speed there and vice versa. Show me 1 police report that anyone was injured there in the last 20 years. Yes it is near a school but this is a highway service road that has practically zero pedestrians. Yes they were speeding but how is this camera making students safer?
One more thought. The NYS speed camera law currently only allows "school zones". School zones have been defined as 1/4 mile radius. That roughly equates to 5 city block radius. With all the schools in NYC public and private, by that definition that is a large part of the geography.
5 block radius =78.5 block area per school. Approx 1100 schools in NYC = 86,350 blocks within school zones.
How many city blocks are there in total in NYC? -
It is certainly a good time to be part of the NYC economy that sells bikes, paints bike lanes, or installs corrals.
It is also a good time to be lazy and in media; any mention of bikes gets viewers all excited. Bike in NYC are a sure fire formula, just like mentioning god, guns or gays in the south. -
I believe it is now time to make fun of pedestrians. I'll start:
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/2014/10/01/how-cross-the-street-for-teens-who-can-look-from-their-phones/1RX40Dd4rG3OCx5SKgEvoN/story.html -
@whynot_31 Yes it's a very good time to have a bike shop or to be a DOT contractor. However, I suspect its almost always a good time to be a DOT contractor.
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In the 90s, it was not a good time to be a DOT contractor.Instead of repairing roads, we placed shopping carts in large holes to warn approaching cars.
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Exactly.
I'd attribute it to improved infrastructure and greater awareness of cyclists.
And this whole whynot conspiracy thing about smart transportation planning changes being just some plot to raise traffic ticket revenues and enrich some people who paint bike lanes is just tired.
Cities around the world are making the exact same changes for the exact same numerous, obvious reasons. That has nothing to do with Albany and traffic tickets and bike lane paint salesmen and all this other noise.
By the way, a cyclist was hit by a car tonight at Franklin & Union. She appeared to be OK enough; I didn't stick around once the ambulance was on its way. But hey, whatevs. That oppressive, totalitarian Franklin Ave bike lane ends at the Parkway and drivers gots time to immediately make up after that. I'd say we should extend the lane to Empire (and beyond) to prevent people being run down like this, but I don't want to be called a shill for that evil bike lobby. -
I was not aware I believed in a conspiracy.
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@whynot_31 Thats just what someone in a conspiracy would say!
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Is this like proving or disproving the existence of god?
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The city council has just set the 25 MPH speed limit. Now only if enforcement was better then sporadic at best. I'm sure the pro-death and dismemberment crowd will be by shortly to tell us how we hate cars.
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The city council has just set the 25 MPH speed limit. Now only if enforcement was better then sporadic at best. I'm sure the pro-death and dismemberment crowd will be by shortly to tell us how we hate cars.
The anti death and dismemberment crowd may be by to tell us how they valiantly overcame "our" objections.
Even though most of us don't own a car and over 5 million of us take the subway everyday, we will politely congratulate on them on their victory.
http://www.mta.info/news-subway-ridership-l-r-g-b-d-4-7/2014/03/24/2013-ridership-reaches-65-year-high
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_most_households_without_a_car
Some people need to feel they have overcome huge obstacles in order to be successful, and the rest of us should be polite to them. -
Wonder how much money the city wasted on the now unnecessary special slow zone signs -- the ones that specify Eastern Parkway Slow Zone, for example -- in the last few months. It's a good time to be a speed limit sign supplier.
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The city council has just set the 25 MPH speed limit. Now only if enforcement was better then sporadic at best. I'm sure the pro-death and dismemberment crowd will be by shortly to tell us how we hate cars.
I think the law has no teeth if there isn't sufficient enforcement. -
@mugofmead111Thats the problem there are laws on the books that punish dangerous and destructive driving. However the NYPD is too incompetent to enforce them and our DAs lazy.
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Regardless of the causes, the lack of enforcement leads to allegations of the laws being discriminatorily enforced, when they are enforced.
Fun, isn't it? Kinda leads one to conclude that only laws that are enforcible should be passed.... -
@whynot_31 Or we simply need to clean out our police department and get rid of DAs being a political position.
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Good luck with either, or both.
While you work on that, I'll be on the subway. -
Politicians can be unelected and the political winds against police brutality and corruption are slowly but steadily changing.
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My view is different, but I hope your view works for you.
Personally, I would not mind living on a college campus with a green, car free quad, and an administration I believed was benevolent.
Those were good times.
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