kids queer in CH
We're looking to move to CH--especially S of Eastern Parkway and closer in to the Museum. We really like the neighborhood but are a queer family with young kids. Where we live now everyone is pretty anonymous (families are out and about but keep to themselves and kids don't hang out on their own) so we don't worry about our kids being singled out for having two mommies, but the blocks we've looked at in CH seem like they have a lot more kid/street community. That could be a great thing, but we also worry more about what our kids' experience will be. Would love to hear any other queer / queer parents' experiences in the neighborhood.
Comments
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Hmm...Well, it may be a sort of block by block thing--and I have definitely seen what appear to be queer folk around--but my sense of the 'nabe is that it could not really be called queer-friendly by any stretch of the imagination--partly because the high rates of violent crime/rape/assault, etc., indicate to me that it's not a particularly safe place for women or anybody who is otherwise "at risk"--with rape and murder both up astronomically from 2005--according to nyc.gov--I just can't imagine saying to anybody that they ought to move here. I have a really demanding job, and a lease, and I love some stuff about this place--it's beautiful--but it does feel like a tough and dangerous place. I'd say think of a safer neighborhood for the kids, and I just can't imagine being "out" here, given the level of open homophobia in the Caribbean culture/community. I teach at a local CUNY with mostly Caribbean students, and just yesterday I had to admonish a group who were openly dissing the "battyboys" and "battygirls," etc., etc. They were quite hostile to my intervention ,and I reminded them that NYC and CUNY laws define what they were saying as "hate speech." While I hate to make generalizations like "Caribbean culture," the truth is that the Caribbean is one of the most homophobic areas relative to its other aspects--gays are openly demonized in music and popular culture throughout the Caribbean, and they have virtually no legal rights.
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And of course, Crown Heights isn't "the Caribbean," but in many ways, the inhabitants and their mentality aren't quite "American" either--for better or for worse. I will say that in IMHO as a biracial/bicultural person--(white dad, black mom)--I think that all communities/races, etc. benefit from a bit of integration. In the case of CH, I think that the neighborhood is perhaps a few years away from really feeling comfortable, and that if that's ever to happen, it would take a much bigger influx of newcomers--ideally people who are anti-racist and welcome diversity--and, unfortunately, a huge anti-crime push as well. Right now, much of the area of CH is inundated by open gang/drug activity, and until that changes, the area is going to have to be seen, by anybody who is honest, as a work in progress. As you browse this board more, you'll note that people have been mugged fairly early walking home from the Franklin Ave. train stop, and that the police have often told people "you should never have moved here." As much as I am devoted to helping all this to change, I also wonder just what sort of place Crown Heights will become. Will the crime ever vanish? Will it suddenly and rapidly be thoroughly gentrified? Will it totally lose its neighborhood character in positive ways? I wish CH were more like Fort Greene, where the racial balance is a much happier thing--although I think that is very easily explained--FG is simply much more thoroughly middle class, and much more American, and the black/white populations have a lot more in common. CH is as much or more about class war than race war, but the two are currently intersecting, along with the crime wave, in rather strikingly unhealthy ways...Sorry if this is a bummer, but just my two cents...
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I know a lesbian couple who live on Franklin. They've been there for a couple of years. There is one other lesbian couple in their building. As far as I know they have never been hassled by anyone in the neighborhood. I would think they would stand out first as "yuppie types" by the local working and underclass inhabitants and as lesbians second, but that's just speculation.
Personally, I'd avoid those streets near Franklin if you can , whatever your orientation. Too much shooting and guns. -
I am not in a same sex marriage but I am a woman living alone with my two year old daughter and I don't feel unsafe in this neighborhood. I have Caribbean neighbors (women) on my block who I am pretty certain are queer but have not openly stated that to me. Things do vary from block to block and there is a racial divide. I don't feel like the people on my block all share the same values as me (but is that unusual?). However, I chose this neighborhood over others because I could see people watching out for each other's kids and I saw a lot of hardworking people.
I am aware of the recent shootings and drug activity but I would not describe the neighborhood in the same way that anniewilde does.
I lived in Prospect Heights back when other people thought that was rough and I see the same seeds of change here that I saw there 12 years ago. Crown Heights has a turbulent history but it also has strong members of the community (old and new) that are involved in improving it. Moving here is definitely something to think about, but, for what it's worth, my portrait of life in Crown Heights is not quite as dramatic as anniewilde's. Personally, I would welcome you to the neighborhood. However, it's important to not move in with a romantic notion of the challenges this neighborhood faces.
Bonnie -
anniewilde wrote: I think that the neighborhood is perhaps a few years away from really feeling comfortable, and that if that's ever to happen, it would take a much bigger influx of newcomers--ideally people who are anti-racist and welcome diversity--and, unfortunately, a huge anti-crime push as well. Right now, much of the area of CH is inundated by open gang/drug activity, and until that changes, the area is going to have to be seen, by anybody who is honest, as a work in progress. As you browse this board more, you'll note that people have been mugged fairly early walking home from the Franklin Ave. train stop, and that the police have often told people "you should never have moved here." As much as I am devoted to helping all this to change, I also wonder just what sort of place Crown Heights will become. Will the crime ever vanish? Will it suddenly and rapidly be thoroughly gentrified? Will it totally lose its neighborhood character in positive ways?
I agree 100 percent. Having grown up and lived in east flatbush (in close proximity to CH) in the 70's and most of the 80's as well as coming bqack to visit the city almost on a periodic basis, I can see that these neighborhoods are going to be tough nuts to crack-not only due to the crime problems but the cultural resistance among the caribbean majority: It doesn't strike me as a community that would be receptive to newcomers of different social, racial and economic backgrounds. The caribbean poor/working class resentment of the white power structure embodied in the new gentrifiers will make change in CH hard to come by. I'm sorry if this come off as a generalization, but this is based on my experience and perception. -
Subject: on the neighborhood
I fully agree with the previous poster. The postings by "Annie Wilde" don't represent the character of the neighborhood.
I am very pleased that new people are coming out in this forum to give a more balanced picture, as I am getting the feeling that some of the older folks methodically try to intimidate new potential residents that are inquiring about our neighborhood.
When I moved to Prospect Heights ten years ago (similar experience as the previous poster) the yellow cab drivers were very often not willing to take me to my home. Today people are going crazy to get an apartment in PH.
I have been in CH now for a couple of months and without romantic notion I get the impression that strong members of the community (old and new) will help to improve the neighborhood with respect to crime and gun activity.
Some people in this forum who methodically try to give a different picture will have to adopt to this sooner or later. -
Hi! I just wanted to offer up another impression of the neighborhood...
I've been living on Sterling Place between Franklin and Bedford for over a year now and I love it. Until the shooting last month, I'd never seen or felt the threat of violence anywhere in the neighborhood.
My block on Sterling Place has always been very warm and welcoming. The neighbors are friendly, but respectful of their fellow neighbors' privacy. I'm pretty sure that there are several families headed by gay women on the street. I wouldn't call the neighborhood gay-friendly (there's not a obvious presence), per se, but I don't see any intolerance either.
I think this neighborhood is great for someone with children -- it's so close to park and museum. -
It's amusing how, just as one reflection of this "community," I am nearly always "bashed" when I state my opinion--it's actually quite funny, but a bit sad, too. I'm very careful to qualify what I say--but my opinions aren't really "dramatic," unless the notion of reading and citing the crime stats on the nyc.gov website qualifies as "dramatic." The number of shootings recently around Franklin is quite significant, by any standard, and the fact that the police/media/local government have been pretty silent is, in fact, political. If we all go along with that, and pretend like this is "just part of living here," then we're contributing to the racism and classism that lead places like this to be ignored. So rather than being "dramatic," I actually think I"m being "realistic." But feel free to bash away! It's all part of the (real) picture of living here.
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I also think it's pretty funny when people talk about the "warm and friendly" neighbors. Of course, there are friendly people--but a conversation that scratches the surfaces with many of the Caribbean people who have lived here for decades reveals not very thinly veiled hostility towards white gentrifiers. To pretend that isn't true is simply naive--and, frankly, rather racist. Maybe it's an American thing--I spent last year in France and a few other years--but why does everything have to either positive and rosy or totally horrible? Isn't life a bit more complex? I think CH is a complex place, with a variety of people and communities, in a sort of uneasy state of flux. Much like PH and Fort Greene were a decade ago, say the long-time residents of Brooklyn. A good place to live? Probably an open question, at least to me....
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anniewilde wrote: It's amusing how, just as one reflection of this "community," I am nearly always "bashed" when I state my opinion--it's actually quite funny, but a bit sad, too.
Disagreement is NOT the same thing as "bashing" (quotation marks or not). The people in this thread who have disagreed with you have done so respectfully and civilly -- that is HARDLY bashing. -
I think that civil disagreement generally does not consist of singling out a particular person by name, first of all--although I know it's often done on these forums--and referring to them in a way which characterizes their comments as "dramatic" or "negative." I actually don't find that either respectful or, frankly, anything other than pretty judgmental--and I'd call it, indeed, "bashing." If I disagree with somebody, I generally try to word my disagreements in a more general, less individually targeted way. Seems more polite to me--but bash away!
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anniewilde wrote: I think that civil disagreement generally does not consist of singling out a particular person by name, first of all--although I know it's often done on these forums--and referring to them in a way which characterizes their comments as "dramatic" or "negative." I actually don't find that either respectful or, frankly, anything other than pretty judgmental--and I'd call it, indeed, "bashing." If I disagree with somebody, I generally try to word my disagreements in a more general, less individually targeted way. Seems more polite to me--but bash away!
I agree with apollonia on this one, sorry. that said, I think internet board culture doesn't really fall into the bucket of "polite small talk". I think, instead, that it is mainly polite discourse, and sometimes pointed discussion, perhaps even argument. I think in this thread you're seeing some pointed discussion.
given what happens on the PH board (where the hostility can be palpable sometimes in discussions like the one engaged in in this thread), this thread is actually quite polite. people are saying that they disagree with you and saying why. you're stating your opinion and why you believe as you do. in all, it seems reasonable and civil.
I think the most interesting discussion in this thread is that each block is slightly different in the neighborhood - it seems entirely possible that you each experience a slightly different reality due to the nature of the block on which you live.
at least no one has degenerated this thread into racist and/or homophobic diatribes. -
a few thoughts:
1. i am part of a lesbian couple, and have never felt uncomfortable in this neighborhood. frankly, though, i doubt that many people i see on the street assume that i am gay, as i don't fit many of the visual stereotypes. so i can't say that my experience wouldn't be different if i still had the haircut and clothes i had in college.
2. i have seen plenty of other people i believe to be gay in the neighborhood -- especially women -- of various races and classes. (judging soley by visual markers -- i may be mis-interpreting, but i am likely also misinterpreting in the other direction, assuming people are not gay because of how they look, as i believe happens often with me and my partner.) many of the people seem to be long-time residents, not newcomers.
3. i wonder if, to a casual observer, not the people who know your family personally, you might blend pretty easily around here. women-headed households seem plentiful.
4. if you do decide to move here, i am very interested to hear what your experience is like, as we are considering having some young'uns ourselves at some point. (please don't tell my mother right now -- she'll want one in time for christmas
)
5. of course, regardless of who is in your family, you are likely not impervious to bullets. i have not felt personally unsafe living here -- no one has threatened me, i have not seen horrible things happen in front of me -- , but there is certainly more shooting than i'd wish for. i do not know, however, what things are like on the other side of EP. the change in murder rate on this side is partly attributable to a single event -- the arson on pacific street.
6. there are LOTS of kids around my house, playing outside, seeming to have a grand old time. -
anniewilde wrote: And of course, Crown Heights isn't "the Caribbean," but in many ways, the inhabitants and their mentality aren't quite "American" either--for better or for worse. I will say that in IMHO as a biracial/bicultural person--(white dad, black mom)--I think that all communities/races, etc. benefit from a bit of integration. In the case of CH, I think that the neighborhood is perhaps a few years away from really feeling comfortable, and that if that's ever to happen, it would take a much bigger influx of newcomers--ideally people who are anti-racist and welcome diversity--and, unfortunately, a huge anti-crime push as well. Right now, much of the area of CH is inundated by open gang/drug activity, and until that changes, the area is going to have to be seen, by anybody who is honest, as a work in progress. As you browse this board more, you'll note that people have been mugged fairly early walking home from the Franklin Ave. train stop, and that the police have often told people "you should never have moved here." As much as I am devoted to helping all this to change, I also wonder just what sort of place Crown Heights will become. Will the crime ever vanish? Will it suddenly and rapidly be thoroughly gentrified? Will it totally lose its neighborhood character in positive ways? I wish CH were more like Fort Greene, where the racial balance is a much happier thing--although I think that is very easily explained--FG is simply much more thoroughly middle class, and much more American, and the black/white populations have a lot more in common. CH is as much or more about class war than race war, but the two are currently intersecting, along with the crime wave, in rather strikingly unhealthy ways...Sorry if this is a bummer, but just my two cents...
Annie, I got to say this: you lack perspective. I've been working and living in Crown Heights for almost 20 years, and things are soooooo much better than in the past. Just in the past six months we gotten several new merchants on Nostrand, including an organic green grocer, a carpet store and a handbag store. My teenage sons, two of them, have been coming and going to the train at all hours of day and night, as have their numerous (mostly white) friends, with only one incident that I'm aware of.
Meanwhile, my office moved to Fort Greene in 1999 and I do recall a lot of old timers from FG talking about how bad things were back in the day. An old friend graduated from Brooklyn Tech in FG in the 50's and he told me about prostitutes hanging out of windows taunting the parents bringing kids to school, and of police escorting kids from the train station to school in the morning. There were homeless guys planted on the sidewalk in front of my office for months on Lafayette that we thought would never go away. Of course they did.
Similarly Crown Heights will change. Just keep the faith, start walking the streets more and quit reading all of those crime statistics. 99% of the folks here in CH lead perfectly normal and happy lives. The just don't bother to write about it on this site. -
Greg, I agree with you. Many of the the "it" places in Brooklyn now experienced many of the same things that Crown Heights is experiencing now. What turned the tables for these areas are the following:
1. The people who cared enough about their neighborhood to make a difference and become members of their block association or the CHNA. -CH has people like that, although, we need much more.
2. For the most part, the "it" places are in close proximity to the subway. - CH has access to A/C, 2/3, 4/5.
3. Desireable architecture - CH has plenty of beautiful buildings, brownstones, townhouses, limestones, etc.
4. Amenities - Slowly, but surely I can see more amenities in CH.
I think that in a few years many will be kicking themselves for not investing in CH when it was more affordable. IMHO, I think CH is full of a lot of potential. -
I think that maybe people have misunderstood my comments--I understand, totally, that "things have changed," etc.--and that's great. When I first moved to CH, I immediately felt so comfortable that I thought about buying a place here when I had enough money--but I live off of Franklin--which isn't getting the sort of greengrocer/carpet store type of treatment yet. I thoroughly support being "positive"--but I also think that CH varies wildly from block to block--and in the radius of about five blocks from where I live there have been at least ten shootings since I moved in. As far as queer stuff goes--well--I think that the level of comfort/expectation varies from person to person. There are clearly queer people around here, no doubt--it is NYC after all. But a mostly caribbean neighborhood is going to be more problematic in that way, which is a sort of politically incorrect contradiction--but still exists. But I"m very happy to hear all the opposing points of view, and I genuinely wish the best for CH--I think we all do--I just don't enjoy getting put down for reporting that the rape/murder rates have escalated and that I am concerned about that!
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anniewilde wrote: I think that maybe people have misunderstood my comments--I understand, totally, that "things have changed," etc.--and that's great. When I first moved to CH, I immediately felt so comfortable that I thought about buying a place here when I had enough money--but I live off of Franklin--which isn't getting the sort of greengrocer/carpet store type of treatment yet. I thoroughly support being "positive"--but I also think that CH varies wildly from block to block--and in the radius of about five blocks from where I live there have been at least ten shootings since I moved in. As far as queer stuff goes--well--I think that the level of comfort/expectation varies from person to person. There are clearly queer people around here, no doubt--it is NYC after all. But a mostly caribbean neighborhood is going to be more problematic in that way, which is a sort of politically incorrect contradiction--but still exists. But I"m very happy to hear all the opposing points of view, and I genuinely wish the best for CH--I think we all do--I just don't enjoy getting put down for reporting that the rape/murder rates have escalated and that I am concerned about that!
No put down intended. Crime is crime and it's no fun to live in fear. I've heard a lot about Franklin from the people at Crow Hill Assoc. but as I live near Nostrand, I've never experienced it personally. On the other hand, people say a lot of bad things about Nostrand as well and I've generally been OK with Nostrand.
On a more positive note, the owner of the new restaurant on the corner of Park Pl and Franklin presented a request for a beer and wine license at the CB 8 Economic Development Committee on Tuesday. Her name is Pascal Jackson and the restuarant is to be called "Le Butterfly Cafe". The menu will be "fusion Asian/Caribbean" The chef has 18 years of experience with a variety of cuisines including Japanese and French. She said she expects to to be able to accomodate 40 patrons and will have a staff of 8. She plans to even have wifi access! -
anniewilde wrote: IOn a more positive note, the owner of the new restaurant on the corner of Park Pl and Franklin presented a request for a beer and wine license at the CB 8 Economic Development Committee on Tuesday. Her name is Pascal Jackson and the restuarant is to be called "Le Butterfly Cafe". The menu will be "fusion Asian/Caribbean" The chef has 18 years of experience with a variety of cuisines including Japanese and French. She said she expects to to be able to accomodate 40 patrons and will have a staff of 8. She plans to even have wifi access!
??? Le Butterfly Cafe? I thought that it was supposed to be a tapas bar? and the name outside says something like Saje...are you sure is Park place and Franklin? could we possibly have yet another place opening up in the neighborhood?? that would be just to precious...my mouth is watering already!!! -
greg wrote: [quote=anniewilde]IOn a more positive note, the owner of the new restaurant on the corner of Park Pl and Franklin presented a request for a beer and wine license at the CB 8 Economic Development Committee on Tuesday. Her name is Pascal Jackson and the restuarant is to be called "Le Butterfly Cafe". The menu will be "fusion Asian/Caribbean" The chef has 18 years of experience with a variety of cuisines including Japanese and French. She said she expects to to be able to accomodate 40 patrons and will have a staff of 8. She plans to even have wifi access!
??? Le Butterfly Cafe? I thought that it was supposed to be a tapas bar? and the name outside says something like Saje...are you sure is Park place and Franklin? could we possibly have yet another place opening up in the neighborhood?? that would be just to precious...my mouth is watering already!!!
Yes, I noticed it does say "Saje" on the restaurant. Perhaps the "Le Butterfly Cafe" is the legal name. But whatever it is the same place. And the owner set she hoped to open on Oct. 23. Next Monday!! -
it seems it will open as a coffee place with light food and internet access
then, when they get their liquor license: asian fusion, lot's of noodles.
when i ask about the tapas, they say yes, small meals, so i think that term is being used loosely -
Any feedback on Sterling btw Classon and Franklin? There's been a lot of talk on how a lesbian couple might fit into the area, but what about a gay couple? I currently live in Park Slope and feel very secure there. It's important to me to be able to be comfortable to show affection with my partner in public - not all the time or over the top, but I dont want to pretend that we're just friends as we walk around. Any thoughts?
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Might I suggest that you guys stop by the Starlite? It's a gay bar that's been in the neighborhood for the past 30yrs. You might get some more useful responses there.
I'm not sure how helpful the observations of those of us that aren't gay are to you guys, and unfortunately it doesn't appear that the few openly gay CH posters are actually responding here. -
and the Starlite is a GREAT bar - super welcoming (though there are the boys on the DL in there, too, but they're near the dancefloor in the back). the folks there could probably sum up the nabe quickly. and they make strong drinks.
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Subject: openly gay in CH, openly black, openly white, openly human..
Doesn't the fact that very few people are willing to "come out" in the relative anonymity of this space say a lot in and of itself? I also wonder how many of the people on this board really know many caribbean people. I teach at CUNY to classes of largely Caribbean kids and adults, the vast majority of whom are pretty openly homophobic. I am trying to be a force for change; but change comes slowly...Diversity is complicated--as a biracial person with family and friends of all races, I'm not naive (thanks Greg) or uninformed about that. In fact, I could probably challenge nearly anybody on this board to a "diversity test" and win--not that it's a contest. I've found that people coming into black communities often want to demonize/oversimpify/etc. Clearly, that's not really accurate. The truth is that there are many things going on here. In fact, in my "black" social life, I'm part of some lists/boards populated entirely by black people--virtually all of whom are educated artist//professor types--and they are pretty much entirely hostile towards white gentrifiers. Look at the most recent Time Out NY book length guide, where you'll find a piece called "The Battle for Bed Stuy," which features a friend of mine named True. Just because somebody--a person of color--nods to you or acts "friendly" doesn't mean that they're aren't--in private--feeling very different things...It's all part of the picture and the complexity...
To those of all races, sexualities, etc.--I'd say this--seeing people on your street and having relatively shallow encounters doesn't qualify you to say much about "them"--in fact, I'd argue that it takes real knowledge--the kind that comes from intimate friendships--romantic, familial, or truly close friendship--before one can even begin to make the kinds of blanket statements people on this board make.
A thought: try to actually get to know the people in your neighborhood, the people you work with, the people you take the train with. You might find out that they're very different from what you thought...In all sorts of ways--and that they're complex human beings, not just aspects of your gentrification process...I'm saddened at how much people are eager to be reductive in ways which boil down to turning human beings into something less than that... -
anniewilde, the OP here asked about street level interactions from the perspective of someone used to an anonymous neighborhood, so yes, surface interactions and people "acting friendly" are part of what was being asked about.
on a certain level, as a gay person, that's sometimes all i feel i can ask for, anywhere. i wish you all loved me deep in your hearts, but if you don't, a hello and a nod is certainly better than not. i don't understand why you seem to think that there's no way to live in a place where some people privately dislike you.
(if that seems overly pessimistic, consider that the cartoon about gay marriage and beastiality on the editorial page of the post yesterday has me a little glum.)
this conversation has ranged all over the place and has rarely dealt with the OP's question. that may be part of why more people haven't gotten involved. -
Subject: all you can ask for...
yes. well. what I meant was that engaging people more deeply can have unexpectedly beautiful results... -
Subject: Re: openly gay in CH, openly black, openly white, openly hum
anniewilde wrote: Doesn't the fact that very few people are willing to "come out" in the relative anonymity of this space say a lot in and of itself?
Well, for what it's worth, I think I'm very much out on Brooklynian.com, but I didn't feel I had anything helpful to add for the original poster -- I may be a big ol' flaming bi-dyke, but I'm also fairly femme and dating a man right now, so I doubt any random folk in the neighborhood read me as queer when they see me, and thus I don't have much of a sense of how they'd handle it if they knew. Nor do I have or plan to have kids, so I can't speak to that either, and I suspect that piece of it may be more of why not many queer people here have piped up in this thread. I know we have several regulars who are LGBT and out, but as far as I can tell none of them have children. -
Yeah, exactly. I'm a gay-and-out user of the Brooklynian boards; however, I'm single, don't have kids, don't plan to have kids, and don't live in CH, so while I read this thread with curiosity and interest, I didn't feel I had anything useful to say to the OP.
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Subject: Re: all you can ask for...
anniewilde wrote: yes. well. what I meant was that engaging people more deeply can have unexpectedly beautiful results...
I suspect most people already know that, don't you think? What is *with* your repeated assumptions that everyone else here is not tuned in?anniewilde wrote: Doesn't the fact that very few people are willing to "come out" in the relative anonymity of this space say a lot in and of itself?
I don't think so. I daresay there's very little correlation between online behavior and real life in this particular case. Online, there's little or no context of the individual, so if you're declaring something, that one little fact is what you become. Talk about limiting...
About neighborhood homophobia, or not:
On Park Pl a few years back, I was involved in a couple of women only parties during the summer in the backyards. Most surrounding neighbors were Caribbean at that time. The parties were wild, the first one was mud wrestling in a big pit, the second was oil wrestling. Did I mention they were awesomely hilarious and very very queer fun?
Well, the local Haitian church ladies came by. They were totally cool about the whole thing. They hung out with the hundred or so dykes groovin in the yard. They totally understood and appreciated that their husbands and sons and boyfriends were refused at the door. There was no homophobia expressed, no hostile reax, whatever. They joined an awesome party, very simple.
As much as I am aware of an overt tradition of homophobia in West Indian culture, I think anyone that stops at that is vastly underestimating people.
I wonder what happened with the OP? There's lots of queers and queer families around. Every place is a challenge, I think. -
What is "with" my attitude? Well, I'm trying to be polite about it, but I really, really do not think people are very "clued in,"--on so many levels that to even begin to break it down would be a book. This board is largely a space of white gentrifiers, who tend to see the people of color in CH in absurdly short sighted and cartoonish ways, and who get very defensive when called on it. It's sad and laughable and pathetic and typical...Meanwhile, the black people I know are in their own utterly opposed worlds, and while they know exactly how f'ed up the white people are, whites seem to feel a politically correct need to see blacks as jolly good natured folk who love their parties and think they're just peachy. I guess Aunt Jemima must be alive and well in CH. Oh, and those black nannies--they just LOVES their white massas too!
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