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CB9's Meetings. Ongoing coverage and commentary: Feb 4th, 11th, 24th, March 16 and March 24th — Brooklynian

CB9's Meetings. Ongoing coverage and commentary: Feb 4th, 11th, 24th, March 16 and March 24th

A mtg was previously scheduled for Jan 26th, but was cancelled due to snow.    There was some discussion about the meeting before it "didn't happen" here: http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/comment/557557#Comment_557557

It will likely be a lively one.

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Comments

  • When Empire is rezoned, I expect it developers to have to include subsidized units.

    In this way, it will be very much like what is about to happen in Court Square (near LIC).

    http://queens.brownstoner.com/2015/01/affordable-housing-may-be-mandatory-if-court-square-is-rezoned/
  • southeast
    edited January 2015
    Interesting... But that may not help many people in the area.  It will likely still effectively increase rents in the area and price people out.  My understanding is the even affordable housing can be quite expensive; often, too expensive for many of those currently living in gentrifying areas.
  • whynot_31
    edited January 2015
    Correct.

    For that reason I do not use the term "affordable". Instead, I use the terms "subsidized" or "below market rate".

    Even if you can afford and meet all of the qualifications for subsidized housing, the odds of getting in are not in your favor.

    http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/45079/feb-5-learn-how-to-hopefully-secure-affordable-housing-in-crown-heights-and-beyond#Item_2
  • Interesting.  I just wish the the zoning study included more of CB9.  I am not happy that the upzoning of R2 and R4 or even a look at the area is not being considered..  For now, I am on the sidelines.
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    In the map below, the study area is on the left:

    YVGnawcshnQIbIi-580x326-noPad

    I expect the R2 zone that is roughly centered at the intersection of Midwood and Bedford to survive untouched.

    And, here is a link to those who oppose the above petition.    They would like it to be "community led":   https://www.change.org/p/community-board-9-say-no-to-city-planning-say-yes-to-community-led-rezoning

    However, they don't seem to understand that the community at work here is the citywide Department of Planning.   

    Those who want "community led planning" are going to have to somehow exclude a lot of people in CH and PLG to reach an agreement.     

    Guess what:   they are not going to yield.


  • @whynot_31, I was referring to the R2 and R4 zoning in the northeast part of CB9.
  • Those are lovely homes. ...I suspect that will become a historic distric in the future.
  • southeast
    edited February 2015
    I would agree for some blocks, but Montgomery and Crown are ordinary and without much character and even the other blocks are less special the further east one goes.

    Besides, I predict immense push back if it is proposed.
  • Indeed.

    The area near the park serves the city's interests best because it is close to the park and the subways.

    These two factors ensure that the zoning will result in actual construction. When one thinks about it, the actual area that will be affected by this rezoning is smaller that that described above.

    It is the area bounded by Lefferts, the shuttle tracks, EP and Nostrand.

    http://goo.gl/maps/qMdZ9

  • If I had a magic wand, I would make everyone read this article in today's NYT before tomorrow's meeting.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/nyregion/in-2nd-year-mayor-de-blasio-will-focus-on-making-housing-denser-and-more-affordable.html

  • Curious how they will make it a requirement to include "affordable" housing in upzoned areas.  Is it all or nothing; meaning, one can only build if they include?  Or will will it only be required if developers want to take advantage of the new zoning?
  • Question:  Seeing as I live in a rent stabilized apartment smack dab in the middle of the area proposed for rezoning, what happens if a company decides they want to rebuild a larger building on the same site?  In other words, what protections would exist for current rent stabilized and other tenants who already have affordable housing that could be affected by this change?  Obviously the intent isn't the displace people, but intent and the reality of what occurs in situations like this are two very different things. 
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Answer: http://www.nyshcr.org/Rent/FactSheets/orafac11.htm

    (layman's answer: You'd be entitled to the protections described, but still likely feel like you were screwed)
  • Answer: http://queens.brownstoner.com/2015/01/affordable-housing-may-be-mandatory-if-court-square-is-rezoned/
    So it's either include affordable housing or don't build at all; there is no way out of this (say, build only one floor).  Am I understanding it correctly?
  •  

    Answer: http://www.nyshcr.org/Rent/FactSheets/orafac11.htm

    (layman's answer: You'd be entitled to the protections described, but still likely feel like you were screwed)
    That's what I figured, which is why I was already leaning towards opposing rezoning.  As much as I understand the broader need to do this, without stronger protections for people like me it completely undermines its own purpose.  Something as simple as stipulating that any displaced tenant with rent stabilization/control will have that status honored in the new building would be sufficient.  In the absence of that though you'd basically just be screwing over one group of people to help another group of people, which hardly seems like the intent here.  Like I said, intent and the reality of what happens are two very different things.
  • whynot_31
    edited March 2015
    Southeast-

    Correct: http://licpost.com/2015/01/29/queens-plazacourt-square-developers-may-be-required-to-build-affordable-units-should-rezoning-occur/

    Needless, to say the usual way out of it will still exist:

    Get "affordable" defined in such a way that the apartments are reserved for folks making 80% of a really high AMI. Then, accept only people who have near perfect credit ratings.

    ....not all of the "poor" are as undesirable to developers as others.
  •  

    Answer: http://www.nyshcr.org/Rent/FactSheets/orafac11.htm

    (layman's answer: You'd be entitled to the protections described, but still likely feel like you were screwed)
    That's what I figured, which is why I was already leaning towards opposing rezoning.  As much as I understand the broader need to do this, without stronger protections for people like me it completely undermines its own purpose.  Something as simple as stipulating that any displaced tenant with rent stabilization/control will have that status honored in the new building would be sufficient.  In the absence of that though you'd basically just be screwing over one group of people to help another group of people, which hardly seems like the intent here.  Like I said, intent and the reality of what happens are two very different things.
    My view is that the city will make real efforts to preserve the pool of low income people, when employers can't find adequate numbers of "them" to fill low income jobs. Not before then.

    ..."we" don't presently have this problem.
  • Yeah, ultimately though, if the intent is to preserve affordable housing, one would think that some effort would be made to ensure that longtime residents aren't disadvantaged and essentially thrown into the same lottery pool where, as you've pointed out, your chances of securing housing are not particularly high.  It also seems like failing to do so could lead to a fairly significant political backlash, as you'd be acting contrary to the interests of your core constituency (many of whom want more affordable housing, but not if it comes at the expense of their own) and managing to turn the mantra of "more affordable housing" into a roundabout way of displacing even more long term residents.  Like I said, something as simple as a stipulating that any displaced tenant will have their lease honored in the new building would be sufficient.  Barring that though I'm wary of rezoning.  When you look at something like that, combined with the specific boundaries under consideration (as well as the areas that aren't) it starts to present a picture where certain residents are being displaced more aggressively than others, and aren't being afforded the basic protections that would ensure their ability to continue residing in the community.  Obviously, there's a necessary balance, but I'm not convinced that the current proposals go far enough to protecting those interests.
  • I am not convinced they do either.

    When it comes to property rights, the government does not have as much power as people think it does.

    For better or worse, the government's ability to play with the zoning code won't stop the massive displacement that is taking place.

    Could the government do more to stop or slow displacement? Yes.

    Is it in the government's interest to do more? I am not convinced it is.
  • Insofar as elected officials hope to continuing getting re-elected, it may be in their self-interest, which is about all that we can reasonably hope for or expect.  If the goal of all of this is to ensure affordable housing and minimize displacement of long time residents, then taking steps towards ensuring that a plan that's ostensibly intended to do just that doesn't do precisely the opposite seems pretty commonsensical.  But that assumes that the publicly stated goals of these initiatives match the actual motives behind them, and that isn't always a warranted assumption.  Barring those assurances, it makes far more sense for someone like me to oppose rezoning, as doing so eliminates much of the incentive for my management company to demolish and subsequently displace me from my building.  I'm hardly a fan of MTOPP, but behind their racism, hyperbole, and generally annoying nature, there's a kernel of truth--namely that most of the proposed changes will benefit those who aren't long term residents of the neighborhood, and insofar as that's the case I can understand their opposition, even if I don't always agree with their messaging/methods/tactics.
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Do you think those that are being displaced, vote and donate to the same degree as those whom will replace them?

    ...the problem largely stems from the lack of definition over what is "affordable".

    Without such a definition, DeBlasio can claim he met his affordable housing goals and the majority of the public can believe he is a caring liberal shaping an all powerful government.

    ssshhhh, don't ruin the illusion.

  • Frankly, this is why we will still have NYCHA. The 421a buildings don't want people who would qualify for NYCHA (see credit screening). They would be happy to fill all of their affordable units with middle income people (think, NYFD firefighters with stay-at-home spouses or teachers, or non-profit managers or mildly successful artists or municipal employees) and let NYCHA provide housing for the necessary plebes. I think that blunt attitude is the truth of the matter. I don't think the politicians are willing to expend such political capital to get the votes of the poor; they are all desperately clamoring for the votes of the middle income earners. 
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Getting the poor to vote is a really expensive proposition. ...they don't naturally do it.
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    The middle class, on the otherhand...

    Think they are doing a civic duty when they pursue their self interests.
  • Exactly. And when the middle class gets their mortgage tax deductions, it is not a hand out, it is a god-given right!
  • crownheightster
    edited February 2015

  • Exactly. And when the middle class gets their mortgage tax deductions, it is not a hand out, it is a god-given right!
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    YVGnawcshnQIbIi-580x326-noPad

    What kind of amazes me is that there has not been more conversation about Bedford, between EP and Empire.

    If the site of the former gas station at the SW corner of Bedford and EP was zoned residential and not C8-2, we would likely get a very nice apartment building there.
    http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/38184/the-gulf-stationdunkin-donuts-at-ep-and-bedford-1550-bedford&nbsp

    Likewise, if we were to "gift" the MTA building located across from the armory with the ability to become residential, the MTA would probably close it and sell it. Lovely factory coversion lofts anyone?
    http://goo.gl/maps/CrOLZ

    The corner of Empire and Bedford has already been cleared for a mid rises with subsidized units:
    http://goo.gl/maps/qzUJU

    I think each could happen by 2020....
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