This site is closed to new comments and posts.

Notice: This site uses cookies to function.
If you are not comfortable with cookies then please don't browse this website.

CB9's Meetings. Ongoing coverage and commentary: Feb 4th, 11th, 24th, March 16 and March 24th - Page 2 — Brooklynian

CB9's Meetings. Ongoing coverage and commentary: Feb 4th, 11th, 24th, March 16 and March 24th

24567

Comments

  • YVGnawcshnQIbIi-580x326-noPad

    What kind of amazes me is that there has not been more conversation about Bedford, between EP and Empire.

    If the site of the former gas station at the SW corner of Bedford and EP was zoned residential and not C8-2, we would likely get a very nice apartment building there.
    http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/38184/the-gulf-stationdunkin-donuts-at-ep-and-bedford-1550-bedford 

    Likewise, if we were to "gift" the MTA building located across from the armory with the ability to become residential, the MTA would probably close it and sell it. Lovely factory coversion lofts anyone?
    http://goo.gl/maps/CrOLZ

    The corner of Empire and Bedford has already been cleared for a mid rises with subsidized units:
    http://goo.gl/maps/qzUJU

    I think each could happen by 2020....
    Re: Empire and Bedford - I thought all four corners were zoned for commercial. What "mid-rises" can be built there?
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    When I say Empire and Bedford has been cleared, I mean by bulldozer. ...the city still has to do its part.
  • Do you think those that are being displaced, vote and donate to the same degree as those whom will replace them?

    ...the problem largely stems from the lack of definition over what is "affordable".

    Without such a definition, DeBlasio can claim he met his affordable housing goals and the majority of the public can believe he is a caring liberal shaping an all powerful government.

    ssshhhh, don't ruin the illusion.




    With voting, it comes down to who's being displaced.  For middle class/working class people like me, I think so (I vote in every primary/general election).  Though obviously the lower you go down the income scale the less people turn out to vote (though an argument can be made that making the day where everyone votes a national holiday would improve voter turnout, as the lowest paid workers are often required to work the longest hours as well, making it much more difficult for those people to vote). 

    And as far as donations, I think that's the problem right there.  How much someone does or doesn't contribute to political campaigns should have no bearing on the quality of the representation they receive.  That, more than anything, is what continues to corrode our democracy, leading to the (accurate) belief that the amount of money you contribute to campaigns is more important than whether or not you vote--which may also explain why poorer people don't tend to vote--they know the system is rigged and voting has subsequently been reduced to an empty ritual wherein all you can do is vote for one of two candidates who have already been bought off by their campaign contributors (see: the wealthy).  In spite of seemingly universal recognition that this is a problem (it really is one of the few issues progressives and conservatives seemingly agree upon), there's far too little incentive for those in positions of authority to do anything about the problem when it serves their own self interest far more effectively than reform would.

  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    I agree.

    And, add that this whole zoning conversation is fundamentally about property rights.

    Our government is simply not a democracy to the degree that it can/will reduce the value of property.

    It is going to let owners get the full market value of their properties, and knows that if it wants to influence how land is used, it is going to have to make said use the most profitable.

    ...this isn't up to whether more people want a given use. This is about what use is the most profitable.

    (Note: No, you can't open a chemical plant next to a school just because it would be the most profitable. There are parameters. The city is not willing to trade subsidized housing for everything a landlord may want)
  • southeast
    edited February 2015
    Interesting... And why the hell aren't they requesting that they study the R4 area as well??? Most of the houses in R4 are overbuilt based on current zoning as well...

    Carroll between New York and Kingston is actually a brownstone filled block and quite beautiful. If there are any blocks in this area that deserve protection, Carroll between New York and Kingston would be it.  And Crown between Brooklyn and Kingston is actually R4 and not R2.  Whatever!  

    I just want R4 to addressed and upzoned with significant height limits, something like R6B.

      zoning-chjcc-letter-1
  • Second page...zoning-chjcc-letter-2
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    It would be nice if that letter caused some to think that their enemy is not locally based.

    IE 
    It is not the jews, it is not the hapless community board, it is not the Department of City Planning, it is not the Mayor.

    Instead, it is the result of housing prices rising as a result of people with means viewing NYC as a very desirable location.

    I am not sure how we achieve that larger perspective.
  • The squeaky wheel gets oiled...  They made one presentation about upzoning the Jewish area and then feel off of the radar screen.  In the meantime, MTOPP screamed and shouted that they don't want a study, and when the study came back to the table, the Jewish area was forgotten; so much so, that MTOPP used the fact that the Jewish area is not in the study in one of their (race-baiting) flyers. 
  • southeast
    edited February 2015
    One of Clarkson FlatBed's (aka Tim) comments in "I Wonder What It Felt Like" - http://theqatparkside.blogspot.com/2015/01/i-wonder-what-it-felt-like.html

    "So here's what happened and what I was TRYING to say. Eli Cohen of the JCC said, according to Pearl, that they would look to other avenues to be able to expand their homes in low-zoned areas, effectively asking that their needs not be put on any "burner" at all. Alicia, besides playing a nasty race/ethnicity card, put it back in play, as if the Jews somehow conspired to keep their neighborhood from being upzoned, which, if you'd been at the meetings was precisely what they were asking for. Upzoning. The very things she claims they're being protected against. Outstanding logic!

    Essentially the JCC wanted out of the conversation, and Alicia put them back in.

    Oh and they're mad as hell. Jake briefed me on that. And there are other reasons, which include, believe it or not, the alleged taking of the voting records from the CB9 meeting of last March. If I can learn what people are prepared to go on record about it, then I'll do a post. Right now, it's a lot of he said he said she said he said."
  • I doubt the MTOPP organizers have a large enough perspective to realize that DCP rarely rezones an entire CB.

    For example they probably do not understand that the city rezoned only the westside of CB8 recently.


    In the present environment, the city has limited means to increase revenue while simultaneously creating subsidized housing, and is going to upzone the areas where it believes it will get the best ROI.

    ....that isn't in the R2s and R4s.     

    ...that isn't in the areas that lack park views and good public transportation.
  • southeast
    edited February 2015
    Okay; so let's find a simpler way to cover more ground efficiently...

    Let's start by blanketing the general CB9 area with R6B designations for streets and R6A designations for avenues and boulevards, unilaterally I may add, which would result in upzoning along with downzoning in certain areas (particularly R7-1 areas where we may be afraid of towers). This should be the default.  They can then make adjustments here and there to better suit particular areas while keeping the As and Bs in all areas to keep it "contextual."

    Going with this approach (a top down approach) will likely be significantly cheaper than going block by block and analyzing the existing and determining what we should have in the future (a bottom up approach). Although for some blocks, it may have a negative impact; in general, in my opinion, it would provide a positive result and in line with the overall objective of upzoning and providing more housing (thereby, reducing prices). C overlay designations would be pretty obvious and wouldn't require that much time either. 

    Simple; anyone can do it ;)
  • I don't think the goal is to increase supply to reduce housing prices, as much as it is to increase supply to increase municipal revenue.

    If factories were the rage, we'd be zoning things industrial.

    ...but the DCP wouldn't be doing it because it wanted the populous to have more widgets;   it would be doing it because it wanted the municipal revenue.

    There is nothing nefarious about it.

  • I, for one, am waiting with baited breath to hear stories of tonight's meeting. http://www.mtopp.org/blackmail.html
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    As previously discussed, I believe these meetings should only be attended by people who need to atone for past crimes.

    However, I recently heard about the ability to "pay it forward".

    Using this philosophy, I plan to attend this meeting so I can bank some credits that will allow me to do something horrible in the future.

    My plan is to litter these cards all around and then sit back and watch the show.

    I have heard I will be in great company: Cate from Brownstoner, Rachel from DNA.info, and various other folks will be there.

    However, none of them will have what I have: Snazzy cards from VistaPrint.

    image
  • As previously discussed, I believe these meetings should only be attended by people who need to atone for past crimes.

    However, I recently heard about the ability to "pay it forward".

    Using this philosophy, I plan to attend this meeting so I can bank some credits that will allow me to do something horrible in the future.



    Do something horrible in the future?!....Oh my God, he's planning on joining MTOPP!  Quick, we need to stage an intervention! ;-)
  • I have not yet decided to do something horrible.

    ...but I have concluded that by attending tonight, I COULD do something horrible and not suffer any consequences.

    Not to get off topic, but going to CB9 is like buying carbon credits.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_credit
  • I'll be there! My entertainment for the week
  • Can't wait for the updates!
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Live updates:

    CB9 has structured this mtg as a listening session, where each person who registers receives 3 min to speak.

    Many attendees are opposed to this, because they wanted it to be an opportunity to join the ULURP committee and then recommend to CB9 that no study be conducted by DCP.  

    Perhaps needless to say, this would have put CB9 in the position of not listening to its own ULURP committee. 

    Instead, CB9 has (in its own best interests) structured tonight to listen to everyone's concerns. 

    CB9 will then recommend to DCP that it do a study that includes everything that is likely to be listed during the meeting:  height restrictions, affordable housing, more infrastructure, etc. 

    Once submitted this request from CB9 will be enough to allow DCP to move forward.

    -CB9 can say it represented everyone who spoke. 

    -DCP will then pursue the larger interests of the city, and point out how it (in response to CB9) is not allowing "unrestricted", "irresponsible" growth. 

    (There are suppositions contained in this post, much of the above was not actually stated. Needless to say, CB9 wishes to be perceived as genuinely for the people in attendance, as opposed to giving DCP the request for a study it desires)
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    The meeting has begun.

    As expected, several speakers talked about how gentrification is radically changing CB9 and how they believe that CB9 and DCP should come to the aid of people being priced out of the neighborhood, and against buildings that they feel are out of scale, or just ugly.

    The leader of CHJCC asked representatives of MTOPP to stop trying to make this about race, which caused yelling and screaming from MTOPP members, who see this as more as of a race issue than an economic one. 

    The Rabbi sees it as predominantly an economic issue, and points out that he would have liked for the sections of the eastern area (ie the Jewish area) to be included, but was not able to do so.  He points out Jewish folks are being priced out too, and that a developer is a developer. ...they seek to maximize the value of their asset, regardless of their race or other identities.

    Some members of the crowd boo him and generally disagree.
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Alicia Boyd (the leader of MTOPP) would like to do a study with a (very left) urban policy professor at Hunter, and have CB9 give it to DCP. 

    She states said study would demand lots of transit improvements, health care, better schools, yada, yada, for existing residents before any additional development is allowed. 

    It would improve the area, not displace.

    The populist speech met the approval of her followers.
  • Oh for a live tweet ! Thank you for this, why not. I feel like I'm there.
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Laurie Cumbo spoke, and used her 3 minutes to condemn MTOPP's tactics.

    This made Alicia furious, and gained Ms Cumbo the support of the non MTOPP people in the room. 

    I believe MTOPP may hate Ms Cumbo more than it hates Tim Thomas (the CB9 member who led the prior effort to request a DCP study, and publishes the "Q at Parkside" blog).  Tim tried to speak earlier but was shouted down.

    Ms Cumbo seems ok with having MTOPP as enemies.

    ....she is likely tired of being called an Uncle Tom. 

    As the former exec director of MoCADA, Ms Cumbo is quite insulated from intelligent people taking such accusations seriously, and knows it.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoCADA
  • Laurie straight up antagonized Alicia.
  • Ooooo!!! Details???
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    She is talking to the press now.

    They will provide details tomorrow, and readers can see how my version of tonight compares with theirs.

    Meeting over.

    image
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    The informal "press" is now being published.    Local activist Richard Hurley submits:  


    Yup, he and I attended the same mtg.
  • whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Tim Thomas weighs in:

    http://theqatparkside.blogspot.com/2015/02/notes-from-ulurp-meeting.html

    Yup, he and I attended the same mtg.
Sign In or Register to comment.