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CB9's Meetings. Ongoing coverage and commentary: Feb 4th, 11th, 24th, March 16 and March 24th - Page 3 — Brooklynian

CB9's Meetings. Ongoing coverage and commentary: Feb 4th, 11th, 24th, March 16 and March 24th

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  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    edited February 2015
    It was a very sad, yet weirdly entertaining (certainly more entertaining than watching Full House in my view), spectacle. The truly sad thing is that Alicia was not at her worst last night. What made the night one of the more memorable CB9/MTOPP confrontations, however, was the extent that other non-MTOPP community members were getting into it with each other. Apart from people ridiculously referring to the TheQAtParkside author as "KKK," I heard so much antisemitism (even if I heard it from one person, that's one person too many) last night that it wasn't even funny. I'm glad that people called out Alicia for her BS, even if she tried to shout them down. 

    By the way, in another crazed antic, she flat out went up to the committee table and took the water pitcher and plastic cups (meant for committee members) to serve her friends; this was during the heat of the meeting and she did it to make a "point" I guess, though it was a weird point to make. 

    I left the meeting after the councilwoman and Alicia started to get into as I couldn't take any more of Alicia's crap. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Alicia seems to have some awareness that the area is going to be rezoned, and therefore perceives that she has nothing to lose.

    Among her followers, she will be seen as the only one who stood up to CB9. It should position her nicely for this same fight in ENY and the South Bronx.
    Live updates:

    CB9 has structured this mtg as a listening session, where each person who registers receives 3 min to speak.

    Many attendees are opposed to this, because they wanted it to be an opportunity to join the ULURP committee and then recommend to CB9 that no study be conducted by DCP.  

    Perhaps needless to say, this would have put CB9 in the position of not listening to its own ULURP committee. 

    Instead, CB9 has (in its own best interests) structured tonight to listen to everyone's concerns. 

    CB9 will then recommend to DCP that it do a study that includes everything that is likely to be listed during the meeting:  height restrictions, affordable housing, more infrastructure, etc. 

    Once submitted this request from CB9 will be enough to allow DCP to move forward.

    -CB9 can say it represented everyone who spoke. 

    -DCP will then pursue the larger interests of the city, and point out how it (in response to CB9) is not allowing "unrestricted", "irresponsible" growth. 

    (There are suppositions contained in this post, much of the above was not actually stated. Needless to say, CB9 wishes to be perceived as genuinely for the people in attendance, as opposed to giving DCP the request for a study it desires)
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    This was published today about the overall battle.

    While it adds to the conversation, it is not clear the writer attended last night's meeting.

    For those of us who have lived north of EP for the last 5 years or more, this article sounds as if it could have been written about "us" in 2009.

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/28934-progressive-gentrification-one-community-s-struggle-against-affordable-housing
  • suppleknuckles
    suppleknuckles
    and as for "you" or "youse guys"--did you get the changes you wanted? I know CH North of EP is startingly different than it was 6 years ago...but did you ever imagine a scenario where it was a lot worse?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    I expect that would depend upon who you ask.

    -The members of CB8 were pleased with the rezoning that happened. The request was made to DCP, and it then took years (8?) before the changes were put in effect.

    -The timing of the CB8 rezoning came after much of the gentrification swept thru western CB8, so my impression is that low income members of CB8 did not seem to really attribute displacement and gentrification to it.

    Western CB9 is different in that it will be rezoned quickly (2 years?), and (all signs indicate) right about the same time that it is dealing with an influx of young, fortunate people.

    As a result, there is more opportunity for arguments about cause and effect.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Rachel's article is published:

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20150205/crown-heights/racially-charged-shouting-match-heats-up-crown-heights-rezoning-debate
  • dac545
    dac545
     image
    I didn't know silver fox Hugh Laurie lived in our CB district. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    I hope his attendance does not mean he is going to do something horrible in the future.
  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    Pretty accurate portrayal. I'm still waiting on video footage from the evening; there were at least 3 cameras rolling, including one of Alicia's. 

    Rachel's article is published:

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20150205/crown-heights/racially-charged-shouting-match-heats-up-crown-heights-rezoning-debate

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Yes, I agree. But in addition to the above misery, there are some other things going on. Allow me to explain a story that is not as eye catching as racially charged shouting matches, and hence is not being reported:

    While our views are not identical, Richard Hurley and I have both reached the conclusion that we do not like MTOPP or CB9.

    When looked at closely, his critiques of this "listening session" are very similar to the ones I make in the post above that starts with "live updates":

    http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=2a43f5a7-bb75-48a9-adb4-31f6114540a7&c=5bbc9f20-ec6f-11e3-8577-d4ae528ed502&ch=5beb0220-ec6f-11e3-857d-d4ae528ed502

    As a result of a failed bid for the seat now held by Ms Cumbo, Mr Hurley knows the reps from every block association in the area formed by Empire, Washington, EP and Nostrand.

    My sense is that while the vast majority of these leaders don't support MTOPPs views or tactics, they also want nothing to do with CB9's.

    ....slowly, a third entity is emerging. It is not led by someone like Ms. Boyd, and it's followers do not seek someone like Ms. Boyd as their leader.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Cate from Brownstoner did not attend (wisely!), but just posted a piece on Brownstoner:

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2015/02/shouting-little-apparent-progress-at-latest-plg-zoning-meeting/
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited February 2015
     When looked at closely, his critiques of this "listening session" are very similar to the ones I make in the post above that starts with "live updates":

    http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=2a43f5a7-bb75-48a9-adb4-31f6114540a7&c=5bbc9f20-ec6f-11e3-8577-d4ae528ed502&ch=5beb0220-ec6f-11e3-857d-d4ae528ed502

    As a result of a failed bid for the seat now held by Ms Cumbo, Mr Hurley knows the reps from every block association in the area formed by Empire, Washington, EP and Nostrand. 
    I remember Richard Hurley's campaign slogan: "I'm here for you, not politics!"

    From his article: 

    "Kenya Sollas took the mike and stated that she is on the Board and She is ignored and can't get answers either! WOW!"

    I know Kenya is a new CB9 board member. I wonder whether that's why she was ignored. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015

    I remember Richard Hurley's campaign slogan: "I'm here for you, not politics!"

    From his article: 

    "Kenya Sollas took the mike and stated that she is on the Board and She is ignored and can't get answers either! WOW!"

    I know Kenya is a new CB9 board member. I wonder whether that's why she was ignored. 
    Many of the board members are new, but their newness does not seem to be the deciding factor which determines their membership in the various factions that have evolved.

    Because one can't speak at these meetings without being shouted down and/or called names, I suspect a lot of people will distance themselves from CB9

    ....just as the folks at PPEN quickly distanced themselves from MTOPP when it became clear their worldview was much different.

    http://www.ppen.org/

  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited February 2015
    Having to distance oneself from CB9 to get stuff done? So much for working within the system. Democracy not at work. 

     I guess in theory MTOPP has the right to express its opinion, but the community will never have consensus if MTOPP continues with obstructionist tactics. MTOPP seems it will never compromise.

    I guess I am glad I didn't go. Last fall's meeting was more than enough. 

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    The people who think Empire Blvd won't change if the zoning is not changed are my favorite.

    I'm not sure if you have walked around the area where the Brooklyn Flea is now located. Despite not having its zoning changed from manufacturing, the area is now changing rapidly to include uses that meet the loosest interpretation of this rule: Arts spaces, beer halls, gyms, etc.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/zh_m1.shtml

    While I love the new uses, the intent of not changing the zoning was to preserve the iron working and auto body shops (ie jobs) that used to be there. This intent has failed.

    A similar story will play out in the (very unlikely) event that Empire continues to be zoned as it is.

    The area will either change as much as it can to reflect the new means and preferences of the surrounding neighborhood within the existing rules, or the city will issue variances to the area's property owners.

    Those who want to preserve the present will fail.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    The people who think Empire Blvd won't change if the zoning is not changed are my favorite.

    I'm not sure if you have walked around the area where the Brooklyn Flea is now located. Despite not having its zoning changed from manufacturing, the area is now changing rapidly to include uses that meet the loosest interpretation of this rule: Arts spaces, beer halls, gyms, etc.
    I'd be down with art space and another gym (Crunch maybe for those too lazy to go to Park Slope). 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    The fancy Yoga place and Planet Fitness seem to be doing well in the Phat Albert building.

    BTW, although it doesn't mean what it once did, it still is kinda cool:   Rachel's coverage was linked by the NYT today.


  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    Is tomorrow's meeting still on?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Yes, I believe it is.

    When I last heard from CB9, it hopes to present their request on:
    Wednesday, Feb 11 at 7pm
    St. Francis School for the Deaf
    260 Eastern Parkway (corner of Classon).

    The request will contain everything that CB9 heard at the Feb 4th "Listening Session", and CB9 will state over and over that they are presenting said request after hearing everyone's input.

    ....the nihilist (?) opposition will take the view that no matter what the request says, it will provide DCP with the blessing of a "request from CB9", and nothing contained therein matters.

  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    Ok, great. Thanks! I'll be there.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I hope to skip this meeting, so I expect excellence in reporting from you and Rachel.

    I also expect MTOPP to state that no study by DCP is required because the "land and communities belong to the people" professor at Hunter is presently doing a study. "It will tell DCP what we need, as opposed to DCP telling us what we will get"

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    We may have readers who may enjoy hearing the perspectives talked about at recent CB9 meetings, but do not want to see this particular battle, or the tactics of these specific combatants.

    Maybe this will meet their needs:

    image
  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    I hope to skip this meeting, so I expect excellence in reporting from you and Rachel.

    I also expect MTOPP to state that no study by DCP is required because the "land and communities belong to the people" professor at Hunter is presently doing a study. "It will tell DCP what we need, as opposed to DCP telling us what we will get"

    You can count on me there! I also plan on taking some video to show my family, who are in disbelief that such a ruckus is happening at each and every meeting. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    I'd like to think that if I believed it was ethnic cleansing, I would be creating a ruckus too.

    BTW, MTOPP has been posting the meetings on youtube. This link is to the entire meeting:

    They have also posted their favorite parts as short clips. Just look under "also uploaded by this poster"
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    Now that is inflammatory. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Yes, I agree.

    But it isn't a unique argument. It is pretty routine for people to believe that zoning changes that will result in the displacement of specific groups (racial, religious, etc) should be prohibited as a result of Disparate Impact.

    http://www.gnofairhousing.org/disparateimpact/?page_id=27

    http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/admin/fair_housing/documents/files/disparate-impact-summary-final-5-17-13.pdf

    http://harvardcrcl.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/HLC104.pdf

    However, a municipality is not prohibited from engaging in acts which "price out the poor".

    ...and given that race is often correlated with wealth, the matter becomes very murky, very quickly.

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=income+inequality+by+race+statistics&gbv=2&oq=income+gaps+by+rac&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.2.0i22i30l9.2028.18595.0.22324.43.26.12.5.8.0.234.2605.22j3j1.26.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.43.2836.9qgpyN4iuj0
  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    edited February 2015
    So in footage that should air on New 12 (they were there), Alicia finally got arrested; I took video but don't know how to post online; I'm sure the News 12 and MTOPP youtube footage should suffice, though. 

    Before the arrest, which if AB's attitude is any indication she certainly wanted to be arrested, AB basically started to challenge why there were no "community members on the committee" (it turns out that there were, though I don't know if any were present), she got her supporters to shout "Whose community? Our community!" and "Remove the community Board," among other rants. The board chair then asked NYPD to remove her; they refused to do so at previous board meetings, so its a bit curious that they did so tonight. In any event, AB's removal (there is a pretty wild semi-take down scene) caused anger from the remaining MTOPP crowd and supporters. Another MTOPP member was arrested as well, though she, unlike AB, wasn't placed in handcuffs as she was much calmer.

    News 12 then tried to conduct an interview with Tim Thomas from the Q at Parkside, but the MTOPP crowd shouted him down while decrying his "racist" blog. 

    I left shortly after, but other community members seemed to take the microphone and hold and impromptu open mic session aimed at the committee. 

    Certainly another wild meeting. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    At what stage of the meeting was she removed?

    I wonder if CB9 will actually get to vote on whether to submit a request.   I believe that was their hope tonight after last week's listening session.   

    Footage her being removed from Rachel:  

    The charge is believed to be disorderly conduct.
  • pheightsresident
    pheightsresident
    She was arrested pretty early in the meeting. I "left" to take a phone call, but I was still in the building for 30 minutes before actually leaving; I went into the main hallway to chat. After the arrest and spending about 30 minutes on the phone, the open mic session seemed to still be going on. I'm not sure if they actually got to vote on whether to submit a request.

    That said, I'm sure AB will be back for the full board meeting on February 24. And I fear that her arrest will only embolden others to join her more crazy antics at the next meeting. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited February 2015
    Yes, I think it will bring others from around the city who share her views and tactics.   
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