Congestion Pricing 2.0

pragmaticguy · March 2015

Many people don't realize that all mass transit fares are not created equal. For instance, those of you in the city can ride from the tip of Brooklyn to the end of the Bronx for $2.50 while I have to pay $16 each for the wife and myself round trip OFF-PEAK to travel the 15 or so miles into Manhattan on the LIRR, when I use it. For this reason, many times it's less expensive for me to drive into Manhattan if I'm going with the wife and park on the lower East Side for free and walk to mid-town (if it's a nice enough day) to do whatever we're going to do. We've done this quite a few times. The fact is, that all my fare money goes to the MTA and the people of Long Island end up paying much more of a piece of the fare than those in the city.

whynot_31 · March 2015

Pragmaticguy-
Because LIRR has a zone based system, I understand why you might think that LIRR riders have a higher farebox ratio than NYC MTA subway riders do, but they both are around 50%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

I believe the MTA has some economies of scale in effect, as a result of how many trains it is running and how many people are cramming into them.

pragmaticguy · March 2015

The facts about the zone based system are true but enough people objected to two fare zones in the city and they were done away with so it's not out of the realm of having one fare for all but the LIRR does have better cars with cushioned seats so at least there's that. But imagine if the people who lived by the stops in Queens for the LIRR had to pay the same fare as those from Hicksville. The uproar would be heard three states away but yet they are able to travel into the city by using the trains there whereas there aren't even express buses from Long Island into the city so there's no choice for a lot of people.

whynot_31 · March 2015

Well, it is a choice to live outside of the city as opposed to in it.

In exchange, people on Long Island get high property taxes, high school sports teams, and at least 50 different St. Patrick's Day parades.

Note, I am not saying these things are worth the tradeoff. I am just saying that some people seem to value them.

ehgee · March 2015

The LIRR runs extremely inefficiently because they run huge trains with highly-paid conductors that every hour, instead of moderately sized trains with just a driver every 15 minutes or so, like in Europe:

There are sensible arguments for a zone fare for the subway in NYC, but it wouldn't happen at the same time we're already forcing poor people to the ass ends of the city with the way rent prices are going.

pragmaticguy · March 2015

Because the LIRR is classified as a railroad they're still subject to all the featherbedding union rules that came about in the 20s and 30s. And ehgee is wrong....even off peak they run about every 40 minutes so it's not even once an hour. But on weekends they're usually pretty well full. As for the people who live in the ass ends of the city....wouldn't it be a wonderful world if they could all get jobs at the companies that seem to relocate to those same ass ends because they're enterprise zones and they just love those tax breaks the city seems to throw around for the promise of more hiring.

whynot_31 · March 2015

Yes, while those tax breaks cause companies to locate there and hire people, they rarely end up hiring the least qualified for the positions. Instead, they fulfill their obligations by hiring the most qualified people who live in the zip code or community board who are looking for work at that moment.

I don't see such tax breaks going away anytime soon.

The 2nd Avenue Subway, however, is likely to be curtailed: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-chief-ave-subway-line-stopped-short-article-1.2134591

The MTA's need for capital funding is real.

pragmaticguy · March 2015

By the time this gets going again the $15 billion will be closer to $20 billion. This may not get finished in our lifetime. And well, you know, it's not THAT long of a walk from 125th St. down to 96th if you really want to ride down 2nd ave.

whynot_31 · March 2015

The MTA's inability to get its capital plan funded may be what finally slows NYC's growth.

I am finding it increasingly hard to believe that Sam will get his MoveNYC plan enacted, and -even if he does- I am not certain that:

a. It will generate the revenue predicted, and
b. The MTA will be able to claim said revenue as theirs.

whynot_31 · April 2015

This writer seems to believe that we should implement a "vehicle miles traveled tax" to fund mass transit, and makes no mention of congestion pricing:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/carol-kellermann-fund-subways-charge-drivers-article-1.2171759

whynot_31 · June 2015

As expected, Albany isn't coming to the rescue. ...it has little to gain from giving NYC funding, or the ability to further tax drivers.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20150601/BLOGS04/150609985

whynot_31 · October 2015

MOVE NY aka the "Fair Plan" discussed above, seems dead.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20151006/BLOGS04/151009925

whynot_31 · October 2015

As discussed above, the state does not want to give the city the autonomy that would be inherent in the MOVE NY plan.

It would prefer that the city have to continue to beg (and trade something) for future funds.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/[field_primary_channel-term-raw]/2015/10/8580032/worrying-math-behind-historic-investment-mt

As a result, we can expect this drama ever year.

whynot_31 · March 2016

MOVE NY (a plan which would toll all of the East River Bridges) seems to be getting a little traction: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/3/24/move-ny-fair-plan-aims-redistribute-cost-tolls-throughout-city

Congestion Pricing 2.0

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