Pacific Park to create new middle school for Prospect Heights
Comments
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Add --open spaceSTEMMontessori-inspired
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A few weeks later, we can email everyone who signed-in a word cloud:
https://www.google.com/search?q=education+word+cloud&tbm=isch&hl=en&gbv=2&nfpr=&spell=1&oq=&gs_l=
Then, they will know that their unique concerns have been heard. -
ha. your buzzwords are late by about two decades and a whole generation of ed reform.
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I hear you.
No generation should be denied the opportunity to invent new buzzwords, and the sincere belief that they are wiser than the parents and teachers of the past that created the present.
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Very informative meeting that ran for over 2 hours.Here's a rundown of some of what was discussed:-Attendees were unanimous in wanting a standalone middle school as a first option (more on the school type below). This would allow students from all throughout District 13 to attend. If its a mixed elementary/intermediate school, then it would be zoned.-There were major concerns about the appropriateness of having the school so close to construction zone, protest zone (aka Barclays Center), firehouse, police station, high-traffic area, etc.-Attendees brought up flooding issues that some homes in the area have, which is an issue to look into if the school will be partially housed in the basement.-The DOE has not determined whether this will be a middle school or mixed elementary and intermediate school. The "elementary/intermediate" language apparently refers primarily to the school type, physically. For instance, a "elementary/intermediate" school contains larger gym/auditorium space, etc.-Its not set in stone that the school will, in fact, be located in B15 (that's what the public comment session is addressed, in part, to determine).-One woman went on a rant against the "communist Chinese" partnership and condemned the eminent domain process used to secure space for B15 as well as in general for the project.To others who attended: feel free to add or correct anything.
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I felt bad for poor Henrik, the SCA planner. He was happiest answering questions about classroom square footage and possible flooding. We made him work through our pleas for a dedicated, quality middle school. Though I did want to give him a gentle hug when he naively asked why people did not not D13 middle schools...'was it a quality-issue?'
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thanks to folks for coming out! we had a truly terrific crowd. crownheightster, thanks for speaking up!
I can add some more details later but am pressed for time. the most significant detail is that all the city & state elected officials that have some slice of prospect heights spoke up in favor of building the school and in favor of it being used as a dedicated middle school.
About the D13 middle schools - that is a conversation for another time but in my view, there are actually some reasons for not attending them that are directly related to siting and building issues. Almost all of our middle schools are squished at the top of other schools, mainly elementary schools that are old and were designed for little kids and feel that way. The size of the allocated space limits enrollment which limits what a school can offer. If crossing the street into D15 gets you access to at multiple middle schools that have larger spaces to program, big-kid sized gyms, real science labs and electives, it is quite difficult to accept so very much less. I should say that there are SOME decently resourced middle schools in D13, just not enough and not enough seats at them and not enough certainty in the choice system at this point...
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Did anyone write down the info for the Education Town Hall that is supposed to happen later this month? I forgot to and hope that someone can share. Thanks!
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June 18 from 6:30 - 8:30 PM at St. Francis De Sales School for the Deaf, 260 Eastern Parkway.
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What year does DOE believe this new school will open?
Fall 2017? -
Fall 2018
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All in all, I didn't find most of the more serious comments and concerns from yesterday persuasive or otherwise without rather simple solutions. I'll take some points step by step:-The construction arguments were weak as construction in that immediate area should be finished by the time the school would open.-While there is a problem with traffic in the area (and, ironically, this argument favors having a zoned k-8 school so fewer cars/buses would be needed to transport students to the school as more students would live within walking distance), many of the problems raised can be addressed by making 6th Avenue one-way and/or implementing other traffic/road changes. Moreover, any school would have crossing guards to help students cross the streets safely.-The issue with protests in the area was a bit misleading. While the precinct council president brought up the fact that part of 6th Ave/Dean St. closest to the precinct was closed during the "hands up, don't shoot" protests, from my observations and understanding, this was not because protesters were targeting those areas (they were generally in the front of Barclays on Atlantic/Flatbush), but to ensure that the NYPD had a clear path at all times to and from the precinct; it seemed to be a preemptive measure. Even then, I don't see why a system couldn't be worked out for the rare protest occasions to get students past the barricades.Still, its important to note that many protests in the area that targeted Barclays specifically generally took place on event days as the purpose was to "disrupt." As most events "worthy" of protest took place in the evening, this would pose even less of a problem. Still, this is NYC. There's the possibility for protest anywhere.-Deliveries, both for Barclays and for the school don't have to pose a problem. In fact, easy rules barring deliveries at certain hours (when school starts and ends) can be implemented to ensure safer crossing conditions.-As the SCA representative noted, there are schools near firehouses that are successful and don't pose any unreasonable safety concerns for students.Ultimately, is B15 an ideal location for a school? No. But I don't think that its anywhere as poorly placed as some people made it seem yesterday.I think its a sound plan to try to put the school in one of the earlier planned buildings. Take that opportunity away, and we risk not having a new school for another 20 years (or whenever the final building is constructed). Granted, I'd be all for "waiting to get it right later rather than rushing to make a mistake now" if I thought the current proposal was actually a bad one. But, as I explained above, I don't believe that it is.I'm going to try to prepare a fuller comment to submit to the SCA before the comment period closes.
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I think many people have not grasped how urban/dense the area west of Nostrand is going to become.
They should probably look at how schools in areas like Greenwich Village and the LES cope, because our density is becoming similar.
We will be much denser than places like Park Slope, Bed Stuy, Windsor Terrace, etc ...yet I think they want that not to be true.
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District 13 is getting the word out: They need more schools.
http://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/74919
They may not need to attend a forum sponsored by CB8 to get their needs met.
That may be the exact opposite of what they need to do.... -
I agree to an extent. The decision on the setup of the Pacific Park school is ultimately going to be made by the DOE/City Council. Still, the recommendation of the SCA (as far as logistics go, etc.) is going to be key. And, ultimately, there's a guaranteed school that will be in the Pacific Park footprint. Other school projects throughout District 13, while needed, are more of a long-shot that will require the allocation of some serious monies and serious political clout, especially as this area isn't the only one in need of more schools; every council person is fighting for additional schools in their area. We're in unique position here with Pacific Park with a guaranteed school being constructed.
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I love AYR. Though Normal O. is clearly against how the project came about, his reporting is fair and honest. He's just keeping officials honest and reporting the news.
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Some info re process:
At the hearing it was made clear that there are three main phases that are relevant. The first is approving the site location, which is the province of the SCA. The SCA does its work, including soliciting comments, at this point and then finalizes its recommendation. The recommendation needs to be approved by the City Council. One assumes that there is a fair amount of political stuff that goes on behind closed doors. I doubt they'll actually consider an alternate site. But if they do it'll come back for a comment process, etc.
After site approval, the facility is constructed. I am told that when a project is led by the SCA, the DOE and the CEC (and others?) typically have an opportunity to see blueprints and request changes, etc. that are actually sometimes incorporated. The SCA made clear at the hearing that since Forest City Ratner is doing the buildout, they don't know whether there will be an opportunity for review of plans, etc., here, which would be a disappointment.
The third phase is determining the utilization of the facility. That is the DOE's province, and that actually doesn't get approved by the city council as far as I know. Probably because it doesn't involve allocation of funds... There are a bunch of requirements by law, but basically the DOE proposes a utilization plan typically in the fall or early spring before the school would open. There's a couple of hearings and a public comment period. Then, unless the DOE makes changes in response to public comments, the plan is presented to and approved by the Panel for Education Policy. This is a panel that is controlled by mayoral appointees. Usually the DOE plan gets approved right away, but more recently under DeBlasio the PEP has asked for more information etc. and it takes them a meeting or two to approve the plan.
One possible wrinkle in this is that if the DOE wants to use the building to house a zoned school, because the area is already zoned for two public elementary schools, under current law it must seek CEC approval to change to the zoning lines. The CEC can approve, reject, or request changes to the proposal. However if the DOE wants to use it as a choice school, whether K-5, K-8 or intermediate, it does not need to get CEC approval.
The complexity of the above, and the lack of a defined pathway for community involvement WHILE decisions are being made, is why we are starting the process of advocating for a middle school NOW, despite that the current comment period relates to siting approval.
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As for issues raised with the site, I agree with pheightsresident, mostly. It's clearly a complex location, but even in relatively simple locations schools have protocols that would reduce many of the concerns raised. Others could be addressed by making sure that the utilization is appropriate for the location.
- In 3 years, three of the buildings on the arena block will be complete, and the last one is scheduled to be done the year after the building would open. The school needs to be in place while the project is still being built out (that's a requirement), which means anywhere you put it will be near construction for years - and actually if you put it on the other blocks it would be literally surrounded by it.
- Traffic safety issues. Clearly need to be dealt with - and not just for the school, actually. But this will improve when the construction is done, and the idea that another location on AY site would be clearly preferable from this perspective is dubious. If placed elsewhere, the school would almost certainly be facing Atlantic Avenue and maybe Vanderbilt too - creating similar (and possibly worse) issues by mixing commuting kids with speeding traffic.
- Not sure I even understood the objection about subway station entrances. What is the issue with a school being would be across the street from a subway entrance? Doesn't that actually make it better? Teachers, kids more likely to ride the train rather than drive or require school buses?
- School dismissal happens hours before Barclays weekday events, most protests, etc. Even afterschool is usually done by 6pm.
- There ARE schools near firehouses and police departments, and they do work. In fact in D13 there is an elementary/middle school that is right next door to one on the same block. There are also plenty of schools right across or a block away from highly trafficked locations, like hospitals, universities, the West Side Highway, the Brooklyn Bridge, City Hall etc.
A number of the complaints about the site are actually complaints that assume the site would be used for young kids. If used for older kids, i.e. MIDDLE SCHOOL, a number of the concerns would be reduced.
First, middle schoolers don't get school buses - they get metrocards. Many kids would likely be walking from Prospect Heights and other nearby neighborhoods, and others would take the very nearby trains or buses to school. Second, the majority of middle schoolers travel by themselves. They don't have parents and younger siblings and strollers clogging up the sidewalks. They are also more reliable with respect to street safety. In contrast, a lottery elementary (district-wide) would certainly have school buses and cars and parents etc. Even with a zoned elementary it is routine for families to get their kids admitted to local schools, move to a more affordable part of Brooklyn and keep the kid in the same school - requiring driving or the school bus.
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Thanks for the points on middle school busing (or lack thereof), etc., maggie! I'd imagine that there could/would still be bus activity for middle-schoolers with disabilities (granted, this could and likely would still occur at a zoned k-8 school as students with disabilities would attend there as well)? Moreover, I'd be concerned about helicopter parents, especially for 6 graders just starting middle school, who feel the need to drop their children off every day. I'm thinking that even if only a small fraction of parents would bring their students or a handful of buses were used to bring students with disabilities to class, a likelihood that I'd say increases (at least for helicopter parents and cars) if a middle school is built, that would be a mess for an already congested area. Granted, I think it could be a manageable mess, but a mess nonetheless.On the whole, though, I accept and agree with your argument that traffic would be worse at a zoned K-8 school vs. a stand alone middle school for the reasons you outlined.
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July 7, 2015 - 8:00am
Sponsored By:
Community Education Council 13, Community Board 8, P.S. 9 PTO, PHNDC
Location:
P.S. 9
80 Underhill Avenue
United States
Description:
On May 15, the New York School Construction Authority issued a notice of construction for a 616-seat facility to be created in a building at the Atlantic Yards site expected to start construction in July 2016. The SCA’s notice describes the facility as a primary/intermediate school. At a public hearing held on June 3, parents and elected officials overwhelmingly asked that the new facility be dedicated to intermediate school education.
On July 7, community representatives, civic leaders, elected officials and public school parents will announce a vision for a new intermediate school in Prospect Heights to be located in the Atlantic Yards space. Organizers seek a commitment from the Department of Education to move forward with the community’s stated need for a neighborhood middle school.
Join Community Education Council 13, Brooklyn Community Board 8, the Prospect Heights Neighborhood Development Council, the P.S.9 PTO, City Council Member Laurie A. Cumbo, Assembly Member Walter T. Mosley, Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon, and State Senator Jesse Hamilton to find out more about this important neighborhood initiative.
Open to:
General public
http://phndc.org/events/press-conference-community-vision-middle-school-atlantic-yards -
Hi all
Just to clarify. It is 8am. Not 8pm. Same address. -
So noted.
Wow, that is an early meeting! -
Is press going to show up at 8AM?
Was this the only time a politician or something had available? -
Politicians showed:
Photo by a member of Walter Mosley's staff
Website for parents, teachers and underpaid journalists has now been created: http://msonebrooklyn.com
It comes complete with a press release for reporters on a deadline, who want to appear as if they were there at 8 AM, but were not: http://msonebrooklyn.com/2015/07/07/press-conference/ -
We had press, we had politicians, we had parents and kids. Early bird catches the worm, I guess.
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We also have a PETITION!! Sign here: https://www.change.org/p/bill-de-blasio-carmen-fari%C3%B1a-make-the-new-doe-facility-at-atlantic-yards-a-dedicated-middle-school
The more signatures we get early on, the more likely it is that the DOE will pay attention. 100 the first day would be awesome...we're halfway there!
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Are these the buzzwords of 2015?
-- Cynthia McKnight, Co-President of the P.S. 11 PTA in Clinton Hill, stated: “Our children deserve the opportunity to continue their first-rate elementary school education, which includes arts enrichment and real-world application of their math and science learning. The M.S. OneBrooklyn vision offers that, in a middle school community that prioritizes diversity, safety, strong relationships and the important social and emotional needs of young adolescents" ---
http://msonebrooklyn.com/2015/07/07/press-conference/ -
I am sure P.S. 321 had diversity as an priority. It didn't stay that way long.
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