Roger That Community Garden May Be Developed
Comments
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As the saying goes, "the lawyers are certain to win".
Let me know if they have any extra t-shirts on Tuesday.
...If the gardeners aren't successful in proving a violation of law, I'm sure one of the real estate agents would enjoy wearing one under their suit when they show the finished units to tenants.
Don't throw the extra tshirts out! -
There's a similar situation regarding the Maple Street Garden, on Maple III in PLG. However, there's one MAJOR difference, since the "property rights" of the supposed owners are very much in question. They're a pair of convicted criminals with a history of stealing real estate by forging deeds.The gardeners are attempting to raise money to, among other things, hire a private investigator to look into the "owners" rights to the property. It would be interesting to see the "owners" end up in prison yet again.
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More about the Maple Street Garden on DNA Info:
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Ms Whynot and I donate to the various Land Trusts that create gardens by buying land.
We also pay taxes, some of which is used by the Parks Dept to create new open space.
Have the (prior) owners of the Maple Street Garden lot filed a suit/complaint that their property deed has been forged?
They would seem to be the party most affected by the theft, not the gardeners. Then, a publicly funded DA could investigate the merits of their complaint, as opposed to a crowd funded private investigator. -
It's quite possible that the heir to this properly is unaware of the theft. Might that not be what the criminals count on? In that event the gardeners would be performing a real public service.
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Property owners must pay taxes to keep the city at bay, so I believe the "best" (?) deed thieves scour the list of delinquent property owners to find a vulnerable property.
More legitimate "Cash for Land" businesses do the same thing.
Has the Maple St property ever been on said list?
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Is there such a comprehensive list? If so, is it on line? In the absence of such a list one would have to look up individual properties on the Dept. of Finance website.
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Roger That Garden had another day in court today. In commercial court to be exact. The judge is used to settling cases with money, ie, how much will you pay the tenant to leave his bodega. This case has the judge stumped, as the gardeners don't want money, they want vegetables.Next day in court is July 28th. We had about 16 hearty shirt wearing souls today.For me the ultimate question is: do we need another three housing units in Crown Heights or would we rather have a garden for the community.Right now, the City is raking in tons of new real estate taxes thanks to the expansion of the exclusionary zone for 421a tax abatement. All those new condos and rentals you see going in on Sterling Place, St. Marks Place, Bedford and Lincoln, Dean and Franlin etc. will all be paying lots of real estate taxes.What would we as fellow tax payers and community residents like the City to do with all of this new revenue?For maybe $500,000 we the people using our special eminent domain tool could buy Roger That Garden and save it forever from being yet another expensive and dreary residential building.What say yee? Any Olmstead and Vaux thinkers out there?
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While the city presently has a surplus, I don't think the judge has the power to cut a check to a landlord for over $1m. Likewise, I don't think the judge is empowered to use eminent domain.
http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/45629/it-is-a-really-good-time-to-be-the-mayor-of-nyc/p1
We can only hope that the residents who move the to-be-constructed units don't view them "expensive" or "dreary". Both terms are subjective, after all.
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My question is: what is the highest and best use of the few remaining bits of available land left in our increasingly concrete jungle of a city. I recall that a previous mayor, one known for his love of development, made a goal to provide every New Yorker access to green space.Surely this current development frenzy where every scrap of land is fought over like it was manna from heaven for starving developers will pass and our children will see this intense pile of concrete and steel and wonder why nobody thought to leave a little open space.So, indeed, why not?
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If privately held land were allocated on the basis of populist desires and/or needs, we might get what you desire.
However, as you point out, it is allocated based on individual means and overseen by laws. -
Indeed the judge can not invoke eminent domain. But we could! You'll recall that the council person for that area Robert Cornegie Jr. was elected by a 7 vote margin. If he thought that 7 people really wanted him to invoke eminent domain and might vote for someone else if he didn't............His chief of staff is Stephanie Zimmerman and her number is 718-919-0740. Give her a call. Your kids may be glad you did.
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And yes, eminent domain really is a law. Just ask the folks down by Atlantic Yards how it works.
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Capt -
I don't have any children, and am not interested in calling an obscure council person, Mr Cornegie, in an attempt to stop property owners from excercising thier long established rights.
Why would I bother Ms. Zimmerman with requests that they have no means to achieve?
I like community gardens, and believe they are a good use of land that is awaiting development, and land which is owned by the city or a trust.
I hope the "16 hearty shirt wearing souls" will be able to find new land that meets that description.
I also have a fear: As a result of making the owners go through the process of evicting these gardeners, other owners of undeveloped land will be less willing to lend it to other gardeners. -
FYI, Mr. Cornegie has very much the power to request use of eminent domain and also the power to request funding to acquire the lot. As noted elsewhere there are now two building being built on the block same block as Roger That, both of which are two or three stories taller than the existing structures on the block.I think it's our obligation as citizens in a democracy to take charge of our communities. If we don't, who will?
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Frankly, no one.
Nor do I believe they should.
There are very good reasons we are not a pure democracy.
I would not want to live in world where my rights, or those of others, could be taken by people who did not like it when they were exercised.
...the court will decide the merits of the gardeners case. Mr Cornegie is hopefully busy with more pressing affairs. As the Chair of the Committee on Small Business, he likely understands the importance of small businesses (like this developer) in his district.
http://council.nyc.gov/d36/html/members/home.shtml -
We fail to remember that zoning was an invention started right in here NYC. Much public outcry arose over the sheer vertical rise of buildings in lower Manhattan, creating "canyons" of darkness. In response to this outcry, the first zoning laws were created to block the wealthy elites from destroying the habitability of city streets.Now we are engaged in a great new uprising of intense development pressure, resulting in many zoning changes, some to aid developers, such as the upzoning of Franklin and Bedford Avenues, and others to aid community residents and homeowners, such as the downzoning and landmarking of most of residential blocks in Crown Heights.Just to say, ah there's nothing we can do is simply denying the evidence of what has just been done in the past six years.I believe a man such Cornegie who won by just seven votes will definitely respond to consistent and significant pressure from the residents.Does the block of Park Place between Rogers and Nostrand need two and probably three buildings that tower over the rest of the block? Wouldn't a nice give back to the block be one or two nice parks or gardens for folks to congregate in? Relax in? Grow fresh organic vegetables in?I feel that these are the kinds of questions those who really care need to be asking themselves.
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Because what happens locally is largely a function of means, preferences and law, I think we are better off contributing to a land trust or an org like 596 Acres than asking ourselves what we "need".
This isn't about "need". We are a community that has the vast majority of our "needs" met.
http://www.tpl.org/
http://596acres.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning_in_the_United_States
Let me know how it goes with Cornegie, and at the next court date.
While Mr Cornegie didn't win by many votes, this is Brooklyn!
...He likely has a job for life if he can manage not to be indicted. -
As stated above by @capt. planet, the next court date is tomorrow.
Here is a picture of the lot back when it was housing:

Hopefully the gardeners have harvested all of their veggies and removed all of their tools, because eviction orders are often enforced on the same day the court makes a decision. -
I doubt, knowing Roger That, that they have choose to use their time productively.
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You don't think they will pack before going to court?
https://www.facebook.com/events/511318829026166/ -
If I was a gambling guy I'd put money on no.
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Case now adjourned until Sept 9.
The developers are starting to run up against winter, when it is more expensive to create a foundation. -
Sept 9 = Wednesday!
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Case was adjourned on Sept 9th, and the next episode in this very slow moving saga is Thursday, October 22. The gardeners have created flyers and purchased more tshirts:

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still? hm. i know one of the main fighters for this garden high tailed it off to the west coast a few months ago. i thought that meant it was dead for sure
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In walking by over the last few nights it seems as if the Garden has a bunch of new residents. The rats which took over the vacant lot behind the laundromat (following the successful TNR several years ago of the feral cat colony that lived there), have now now been gentrified out of the Bedford/Rogers block. They have taken up residence in the garden (and probably in the basement of the church and house as well) as they get pushed further west.Ah gentrification!
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In walking by over the last few nights it seems as if the Garden has a bunch of new residents. The rats which took over the vacant lot behind the laundromat (following the successful TNR several years ago of the feral cat colony that lived there), have now now been gentrified out of the Bedford/Rogers block. They have taken up residence in the garden (and probably in the basement of the church and house as well) as they get pushed further west.
I've noticted that as well. I hope they don't come further east.Ah gentrification! -
At the Sanitation committee meeting of CB 8 this week, one of the older members recalled the days when it was required that all home owners keep their trash in sealed metal buckets behind their gates. Sanitation workers were required to open the gates, remove the buckets, empty them and return them behind the gates.When you walk the streets now in the morning on one of three weekly pickup up days, you see endless rows of plastic bags lining the street.To a rat, this is just a big smorgasbord. That is "a buffet offering a variety of hot and cold meats, salads, hors d'oeuvres, etc."Hence the rat problem.
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