Uncharted lands

doublen00b · February 2016

I popped over to yimby to see if anything new was going on, and this jumped out: http://newyorkyimby.com/2016/01/three-three-story-two-unit-residential-buildings-coming-to-696-east-38th-street-east-flatbush.html

Here's a link to map of the location: https://www.google.com/maps/place/696+E+38th+St,+Brooklyn,+NY+11210/@40.638383,-73.9416046,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c25b572039d9bd:0xf70703cec5c657d4

That development seems to be one of the furthest out and furthest from a subway (that I've seen in that direction). Additionally when walking that neighb the other day I noticed that a few sites that just had the green construction fences up now had backhoes and pictures of plans on the construction fences. Most of them indicated completions in winter 2017... hear that? You've got until winter 2017 to beat the developers.

suppleknuckles · February 2016

that's super far out! crazy.

this weekend i saw a sale listing for the following property.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/604+e+40th+st+brooklyn/@40.6407076,-73.9388985,3a,75y,259.37h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m4!1shb4czmrH2Bw37_pKh_7MrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xf70ca2b2a39f6e3f!6m1!1e1

it looked so crazy on GSV that i decided to ride my bike out to look at it. it's a lovely gigantic lot, you could probably build like 12 townhouses on it. the main building says "1914" on the outside and it has this little woodframe building off to the side that is surely much older than that. clearly the sellers are looking for a developer, which is sad as it used to be a home for the aged.

doublen00b · February 2016

The replacement buildings are a strange choice for the land on 38th street because they don't seem to be interested in maximizing the FAR, or even putting something big on them. Which is a nice change of pace.

Regarding the place on 40th street... wow that's a giant size piece of land. They want 3.25m, that's a lot of coin for location. BUT, people have paid more for less in neighborhoods that were less desirable.

pragmaticguy · February 2016

Maybe the two families are going to be sold fee simple. There's roughly 3000 sq ft of living space in each one so I'm guessing the other 700 ft is for a garage (?).

lox · February 2016

Last year we made what was at the time a tough decision to leave Crown Heights and buy a townhouse in Flatbush. We don't have the hip cafes and brick oven pizzerias and it's only about 10 minutes further out on the 2/5 but our neighbors are amazing and there's a real sense of community here. With all the new development going on especially along Nostrand one can tell that the cafes and pizzerias are not far behind. I just hope our good neighbors are able to stick around for the long haul.

slam_harris · February 2016

Last year we made what was at the time a tough decision to leave Crown Heights and buy a townhouse in Flatbush. We don't have the hip cafes and brick oven pizzerias and it's only about 10 minutes further out on the 2/5 but our neighbors are amazing and there's a real sense of community here. With all the new development going on especially along Nostrand one can tell that the cafes and pizzerias are not far behind. I just hope our good neighbors are able to stick around for the long haul.

Where did you buy? I'm looking out there too. Mostly east Flatbush because that's what I can afford. I am a little bummed there aren't any sit down restaurants in the area.

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

There are lots of sit-down restaurants. Just not a lot of table service restaurants.

lox · February 2016

slam_harris said:

Last year we made what was at the time a tough decision to leave Crown Heights and buy a townhouse in Flatbush. We don't have the hip cafes and brick oven pizzerias and it's only about 10 minutes further out on the 2/5 but our neighbors are amazing and there's a real sense of community here. With all the new development going on especially along Nostrand one can tell that the cafes and pizzerias are not far behind. I just hope our good neighbors are able to stick around for the long haul.
Where did you buy? I'm looking out there too. Mostly east Flatbush because that's what I can afford. I am a little bummed there aren't any sit down restaurants in the area.

Beverley Rd near NY Ave. With all the development happening along Nostrand, eventually more restaurants will follow.

suppleknuckles · February 2016

slam_harris said:

Last year we made what was at the time a tough decision to leave Crown Heights and buy a townhouse in Flatbush. We don't have the hip cafes and brick oven pizzerias and it's only about 10 minutes further out on the 2/5 but our neighbors are amazing and there's a real sense of community here. With all the new development going on especially along Nostrand one can tell that the cafes and pizzerias are not far behind. I just hope our good neighbors are able to stick around for the long haul.
Where did you buy? I'm looking out there too. Mostly east Flatbush because that's what I can afford. I am a little bummed there aren't any sit down restaurants in the area.

my bf bought a house off the church 2/5 almost 2 years ago now, and we feel precisely the same way about the neighborhood as you do. great neighbors, shame about the restaurants but in the scheme of things it's a pretty minor complaint. after all, i live in flatbush but closer to the park/southern edge of PLG and it just means we spend more time there if we want to have table service or go to a bar with beer on tap. you're probably right about the pizzerias--i got 2 right around the corner from me in the same month this past fall. when it rains it pours, i guess. the 2/5 line area isn't far behind for those kinds of amenities.

slam_harris; like i mentioned my bf's place is near church and nostrand and he closed on his deal seemingly before the prices in the area started to climb. that said there's still deals to be had. we keep a close eye on housing stock around here, from E 25th st limestones around clarendon and ave D, to the more bungalow types around brooklyn ave. the way i see it anything within reasonable walking distance to the 2/5 is probably going to increase in value over the next few years as people getting priced out of crown heights (like he was) realize those blocks are actually beautiful and the train situation isn't all that bad (besides, all the amenities of crown heights are a super short train ride or bus ride away).

my advice: get on the ground looking for For Sale signs and possibly start knocking on doors. we actually have some friends who just closed on a house last month around church and NY ave. they got it for below the average sale price in the area because, after dealing with shitty RE agents and super inflated prices, they just started knocking on people's doors. after all, that's what many realtors do. they met one lady who had had agents come knocking before and much preferred to cut out the middle man. later they found out the RE agent that had wanted to list her house had wanted to list it for almost $200k more than they ended up closing for it. i think they got really lucky but they're not the first people i've known to take to the streets in search for a home. it could result in a lot of embarrassing interactions but I'm pretty inspired by the fact it worked out so well for them.

i think it's also important to explore every option, not just the listings with the shiny photos and floorplans. you really have to be tenacious and annoy agents to give your appointments to see places. the listing for my bf's house was incredibly unimpressive but when we saw it for the first time it was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of immediate liveability and good vibes. the agent was from some small-time flatlands based company and was practically a country mouse compared to those subway rats of corcoran and halstead.

lox · February 2016

Agreed. It can take some time and patience. We looked at many houses that were in bad shape until we found "the one" that needed lots of updating but had also been given much TLC by the former family who had lived there for 50 years.

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

Poorly listed houses can be good for a buyer but bad for a seller. My block is trying to spread information to potential sellers about what current market prices are, to avoid people selling for less than what they are worth. The market is changing so rapidly that some people, especially the elderly, haven't kept up with recent record-breaking sales.

whynot_31 · February 2016

I had a conversation with an elderly woman recently who was convinced the recent sales on her block must of had fabulous kitchens or "inflated prices for tax purposes". (?) Um, no. ....they were row houses that were in average shape. Just like hers.

suppleknuckles · February 2016

there's a limit to how justifiable the record-breaking sales are, though. i've been seeing a lot of houses in the area listed at a lofty 800k and up, usually with absolutely no work done. not sure they'll be getting those prices....but it sure keeps a lot of first time home buyers from becoming home owners at all, and that's just as lousy.

basically, i'm appreciative of the woman who sold her house to my friends. she accepted a really fair offer going by neighborhood comps--but nothing like what you'd see on corcoran or anything. it seemed to matter to her that people actually wanted to live in her house and take care of it; more than squeezing every drop of money she possibly could have by going the RE agent's route. what's more, her desire to sell was motivated by her desire to move back to guyana and its warmer climate, instead of a more dire foreclosure situation. i think good vibes can be important when buying a house too. i've been to a few too many depressing open houses

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

It's true that 800k is historically high for Flatbush and E Flatbush, but look what you get!

When we were looking for a house a year ago we were surprised at how low the prices in Flatbush were.

First of all there is a gap in the market in Brooklyn for this price range. Flatbush houses were $500-700k and all other neighborhoods were $1m and up, even Sunset Park, the fringes of PLG, Kensington, Bay Ridge, Bushwick, Eastern Bed Stuy. If your budget was $850k you couldn't find something in those other areas. The prices in Flatbush came up to fill that gap.

The housing stock is basically the same: turn of the century row houses in various conditions. The only neighborhood which we found to be close in price was Bay Ridge, which was still more than Flatbush, but to me Flatbush is much more centrally located, walkable and bike-able to many more neighborhoods, with better subway options.

Second of all compared to the adjacent neighborhoods there is an absurd price difference. Crossing the street from Ditmas Park or PLG to Flatbush, the price of a house would fall $500k. Fixer-uppers on Clarkson would go for $1.1m and Linden would be $900k. This makes no sense. 3 blocks is not a $200,000 difference.

whynot_31 · February 2016

Such differences might be correlated to perceived differences in the zoned school district.

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

I agree, but I don't think that's what was at play here.

Uncharted lands

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