Flatbush Listed as 'Next Hot Neighborhood'

psyker390 · February 2016

Not too surprising. I'm generally looking forward to what we'll look like in the next year or so. Particularly hoping to see some of the restaurants/bars that have sprung up in PLG.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/realestate/new-yorks-next-hot-neighborhoods.html

whynot_31 · February 2016

I'll perceive it as real when I start to see non-delivery bikes locked up in front of rent stabilized buildings.

...craft beer at local bodegas will follow.

doublen00b · February 2016

whynot31 I already see it happening, the other day I was walking through flatbush at the church ave stop 2/5 heading towards the park. I couldn't help but notice the number of 'performance' bikes that were chained up in front of some of the buildings. Also the amount of green construction walls was a surprise. I counted 7 sites that were in progress, which is about 1 per block.

idk about the bars and restaurants, but here's what I do know. Flatbush trains get around just as fast as crown heights and bedstuy trains; and at least at the moment Flatbush is inexpensive when compared to those two neighbs.

I think it's a good thing that the area has a lot of rent stabilized buildings because it means it won't get totally ruined by developers. They will have to pick their projects carefully and be accommodating to tenants because everyone is aware of gentrification in Brooklyn.

If you check out the nypd crime map https://maps.nyc.gov/crime/ it's always safer than a lot of other neighborhoods.

FWIW I did notice at the liquor store around the corner from fat alberts they were stocking craft beers. Oh and at the gourmet grocery store accross the street called 'Wholesome'...

whynot_31 · February 2016

"FWIW I did notice at the liquor store around the corner from fat alberts they were stocking craft beers. Oh and at the gourmet grocery store accross the street called 'Wholesome'..."

I refer to that area as PLG.

I think of Flatbush as beginning further East, and south.

At this point, Flatbush is under pressure from two sides (Ditmas Park and PLG), both of which really started to change several years ago. (2011?)

doublen00b · February 2016

That's fair I suppose, I've always been somewhat confused about the boundaries, my assumption was that PLG is part of Flatbush. But since it encompasses a number of nieghborhoods I'm not really sure where it starts and stops... or rather that RE agents keep redefining it.

suppleknuckles · February 2016

craft beer is currently stocked around where i live, flatbush/caton/lenox, solidly not PLG. it's not hard to find. it's a little more challenging to find around the church 2/5 stop but i notice now 2 places stock it as opposed to 0 a couple of years ago (when my partner went to his local bodega with an empty six pack carton of his choice and asked them to stock it, haha).

once i can find organic half and half around the church 2/5 stop, then i'll know it has truly Happened

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

Hah, suppleknuckles, try the market next to the walgreens. They stock organic dairy. Same with the Stop and Shop on Tilden. Even the Key Foods between Nostrand and Rogers has organic milk. My impression is all this has nothing to do with gentrification; there is healthy demand in the Carribean community for organic dairy. Healthy food in general is very popular here, 3 health food stores, lots of vegetarian food, etc. Many people in the E30s are homeowners, solidly middle class, and can afford expensive milk!

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

We came here from Windsor Terrace, where the houses are 4x the price and it's 4x more difficult to get a carton of milk after 9pm. People are so rich there that they don't shop. We spent 5 years in an area where the nearest produce market was 10 minute walk away, gentrification be damned. Flatbush is just about the opposite of a food desert in every way.

slam_harris · February 2016

I'm a hairs breadth from buying east of the Church 2/5. I hope I can get in before the first coffee shop or Thai restaurant hits. Those are my markers of gentrification.

doublen00b. there's a mexican place a few block east of the church 2/5 and south by 15 feet. is it any good? good authentic mexican tacos would make the hood perfect for me.

suppleknuckles · February 2016

RudolfAhrens said:

Hah, suppleknuckles, try the market next to the walgreens. They stock organic dairy. Same with the Stop and Shop on Tilden. Even the Key Foods between Nostrand and Rogers has organic milk. My impression is all this has nothing to do with gentrification; there is healthy demand in the Carribean community for organic dairy. Healthy food in general is very popular here, 3 health food stores, lots of vegetarian food, etc. Many people in the E30s are homeowners, solidly middle class, and can afford expensive milk!

Alas, there's a distinct difference between organic milk and organic half and half! MK never ever has the latter, and stop and shop is a good suggestion but probably a little distant. organic milk is for families, organic half and half is for childless couples who want it to pair with their saturday morning coffee (which is also hard to find in whole-bean form)

but yes otherwise i whole heartedly agree that flatbush is no food desert. the best part of shopping is the abundance of fresh produce places, and the fact we have our pick of fish markets, even

suppleknuckles · February 2016

slam_harris said:

I'm a hairs breadth from buying east of the Church 2/5. I hope I can get in before the first coffee shop or Thai restaurant hits. Those are my markers of gentrification.

doublen00b. there's a mexican place a few block east of the church 2/5 and south by 15 feet. is it any good? good authentic mexican tacos would make the hood perfect for me.

which mexican place? the one we go to around the 2/5 sadly closes at 8 pm and has a weird dining space that isn't open to the public for some reason

slam_harris · February 2016

i cant remember the street. let me google map it. i think this was it: https://goo.gl/maps/ZgDq4Qdwfby

is this the place?

RudolfAhrens · February 2016

For Mexican I usually go to Tacos El Dorado on Flatbush near Lenox. There is a growing Mexican community here so I wouldn't be surprised to see more Mexican businesses. Actually I think the new pizza place on Rogers and Church is run by Mexicans.

I know the place you are talking about but I haven't been there yet.

Yes, I sympathize about the organic half and half. Our difficult-to-find yuppie product of choice is Organic Lactose-Free milk. Stop and Shop has that.

For coffee beans we go up to Cinnamon Girl or Gratitude. I wonder if the new Gratitude has beans? Haven't been yet.

It was funny to read about Park Slopers up in arms complaining about the closing of the Key Foods on 5th ave, and how it might be replaced with a much smaller Key Foods. I wonder what they would think of our Key Foods? All I can say is not all Key Foods are alike.

bobmarvin · February 2016

PLG is, without any doubt, the northern tip of Flatbush

suppleknuckles · February 2016

Well, the article specifically refers to the "hot" part of Flatbush being the areas that are *not* PLG or Ditmas park so I think it's fair to say PLG has forfeited its Flatbush name in the eyes of the NYT.

Also slam_harris, yes that is the place I was talking about. I really like it but the limited hours thing can def be a drag! But I know tacos el dorado delivers to the area too.

bobmarvin · February 2016

And here I had naïvely thought that the newspaper of record might stop printing nonsense about Brooklyn now that so many of their reporters live here.

suppleknuckles · March 2016

slam_harris said:

i cant remember the street. let me google map it. i think this was it: https://goo.gl/maps/ZgDq4Qdwfby

is this the place?

yup! like i said, awesome but closes too early for me. and i was hoping customers would be allowed to sit in the dining area next door...but for some reason they arent?

BrooklynAve · March 2016

I wonder if the boundaries of Plg will expand similar to how park slope has over the past few decades

http://ny.curbed.com/2014/1/8/10156826/dissecting-a-110-year-old-debate-over-park-slopes-borders

whynot_31 · March 2016

If people become convinced there are more similarities than differences, I think that is a safe bet.

I am interested in seeing how Kings Theater defines itself in terms of neighborhood.

suppleknuckles · March 2016

oh, I'm sure there will be those who try to expand PLG to the extreme, until Flatbush gains some positive connotation (much like crown heights did). The question is how effective will the long-term residents who are willing to die by the platoon on PLG-Ends-At-Clarkson Hill will be before that happens.

Kings Theater has described itself as being "in the heart of Flatbush/Brooklyn", nowhere do the names Ditmas Park or PLG ever come up

whynot_31 · March 2016

Even if it wanted to, it is too early in its life for Kings Theater to try to call itself something other than Flatbush.

I think history has shown it is the newer residents who want to glom onto the nicer adjacent neighborhood, than long term residents who would like to annex the "less nice" adjacent neighborhood.

...my curiousity will take time to be satisfied.

psyker390 · March 2016

For what its worth, I've noticed that Trulia *insists* on listing my address as part of PLG and I'm ever-so-slightly southwest of the Church ave 2/5 stop. The other real estate search engines haven't tried pulling such name games just yet.

bobmarvin · March 2016

While I know that the PLG neighborhood of Flatbush ends at Clarkson, I'm not terribly offended by claims that it ends at Lenox or Linden; Church would be pushing things a bit too far.

RudolfAhrens · March 2016

Clarkson makes sense because it's a major east west avenue that runs alongside the bottom of Kings County Hospital. The blocks between Clarkson, Lenox and Linden are some of the most dense in Brooklyn, with rows of large 6 story pre-war apartment buildings. They are also deeper blocks, some of them 300-400 ft deep, compared to the more standard 200 ft deep of many PLG blocks. So it makes sense to distinguish them from the smaller blocks of PLG.

I got no problem with the name Flatbush. No stigma. People who are afraid of a neighborhood name need to take a deep breath.

suppleknuckles · March 2016

i think PLG should end at parkside to simplify things. not really sure why clarkson was chucked in there. is it because there's cute limestones there people had long ago hoped to landmark? what of the cute limestones on lenox and linden?

whynot_31 · March 2016

It has been a while since I have had the opportunity to closely watch what happens to "not officially defined neighborhoods" that are experiencing a decline.

For example, I have a relative that lives in Memphis, TN and his once middle class neighborhood is in a state of decline.

Does decline move like a wave?

How do residents and real estate agents in the remaining nice parts convince themselves and others that the "other parts" are no longer a part of the nieghborhood?

RudolfAhrens · March 2016

Clarkson serves as a dividing line, not only between PLG and Flatbush but between E Flatbush and Wingate. Kings County Hospital and Kingsboro Psych Hospital goes all the way to Utica. Clarkson is a bus route and also becomes more of a commercial strip across from the hospital. So it's better positioned as a neighborhood dividing street.

It's also the dividing line for CB 17 & 9. I think it's also the northern border of the 67th precinct.

But yeah these dividing lines are tough calls. What do you call the area bounded by Caton, Church, Coney Island, and Ocean Ave? Historically PPS is south of Church, right, with the big pillars? Caton Park? Flatbush? Ditmas Park? Does that name include the big buildings near Ocean?

bobmarvin · March 2016

"What do you call the area bounded by Caton, Church, Coney Island, and Ocean Ave?

Historically, Caton Park which. of course is part of Flatbush

RudolfAhrens · March 2016

So is that a neighborhood? It's only 1 block long. Even the west side of Ocean Ave between Church and Caton is Caton Park? What about the parade grounds?

slam_harris · March 2016

suppleknuckles said:

slam_harris said:

i cant remember the street. let me google map it. i think this was it: https://goo.gl/maps/ZgDq4Qdwfby

is this the place?

yup! like i said, awesome but closes too early for me. and i was hoping customers would be allowed to sit in the dining area next door...but for some reason they arent?

i was able to sit in the dining area when i went. it was around lunch time and a few others were in there. i just walked in fromt he smaller section ducking under the stairs.

also, i thought the food was really bad. maybe it was a bad day? what's your favorite dish there?

suppleknuckles · March 2016

:O! wow i never knew anyone could sit there.

honestly i always get a torta. the burritos have been good but fall apart super easily. man, i guess i'll just stick to dorado

Flatbush Listed as 'Next Hot Neighborhood'

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