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The Repurposing of the Armory at Bedford and UNION - Page 14 — Brooklynian

The Repurposing of the Armory at Bedford and UNION

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Comments

  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    whynot_31 said:
    As a result of thinking of the revitalized armory as being "neighborhood infrastructure", I think this article fits here. http://www.brickunderground.com/live/why-infrastructure-cant-keep-up-with-gentrification
    Points in this article would also be as relevant in the Trader Joe's thread.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Several relatively upscale supermarkets have arrived or are in the works.

    So, I tend not to see a big void there.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited November 2016
    whynot_31 said:
    Several relatively upscale supermarkets have arrived or are in the works. So, I tend not to see a big void there.
    Not south of Eastern Parkway though.

    Whatever is reported to go in at 626 Flatbush and on Lincoln Road are independent stores, no? Not TJ's.

    TJ's isn't really that upscale either.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    A Costco or a Sam's Club could fill the armory and pay the bills.

    Neither is upscale.

  • BryceTC
    BryceTC
    The building certainly has the space for a Sam's Club or Costco but the neighborhood doesn't. Things have to be taken into account like parking spaces and how trucks are going to deliver groceries and I'm afraid this part of Crown Heights is just too dense for something like that. 

    There's a reason why most warehouse chains are is areas that aren't densely populated or are part of larger shopping complexes.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    I'm not for the armory being re-used in this manner, and suspect the covenant that transferred control of the armory from NYS to NYC actually prohibits it.

    ...but (sans those restrictions) one could built a multi-story garage where the apartment building is to be constructed.

    And, then either put a Sam's Club or mall in the armory.
  • dmiami2
    dmiami2
    whynot_31 said:
    A Costco or a Sam's Club could fill the armory and pay the bills. Neither is upscale.
    If they want to be in the neighborhood it'd be easier to move to Empire or buy out Western Beef.   

    I hope the doesn't happen though.  I don't think this neighborhood, or any residential area for that matter, should have big box stores.   With more access to credit and internet these bulk consumer goods stores "should" decline with consumers opting to buy in bulk online with free shipping.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    As a result thinking that Empire will be rezoned, I don't think Sam's Club or Costco would be the highest bidder for the Western Beef site.

    So, I do not see them opening a new location near us.

    As a result of the national election, NYC and NYS tax dollars are likely to become more scarce, as they will be forced to make up for a loss in federal funding.

    The armory has to break even and be self sustaining.
  • yesbrooklyn
    yesbrooklyn
    Well 421 a is back in effect pretty similar to how it was before expiring.


    Also some ideas for the Armory on here:  http://www.chsa20.com/

    What do you guys think?  I happen to like aspects of it for example the commercial "cooking school," grocery store, cafe parts as well as the balancing of the rec center/housing parts.  


  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    I don't think the residential component is large enough to create the subsidy needed.


    I also do not think the area grocery stores and cafes are going to be in favor of competition that gets to occupy the armory space.

    Bedford and Rogers Avenues each have businesses and landlords that do not want their interests hurt.  ...and they are friends with the politicians who "want something else" 
  • yesbrooklyn
    yesbrooklyn
    Nothing's perfect!  
  • Mechanical_Whispers
    Mechanical_Whispers
    edited November 2016
    That daylight shading analysis is severely warped. It doesn't truly show how Union Street will be in darkness most of the time due to the massive residential building. As it is right now, the roof of the armory blocks most of the sunlight to the West side of the block.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    In a move I perceive as obvious, BFC partners has almost given away rental space to one of Crown Heights' most popular community organizations: the West Indian Day Carnival Association. 

     Suddenly, the project is again "community serving" and -um- "black". Critics: the ball is now in your court. 

     Um, good luck.
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    ooo. hardball.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    BFC now has money, EDC and "community support"

    Now it just needs a big developer that is smart enough to have a POC as spokesperson, to silence the MWBE folks.

    5-4-3-2-.....
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    I like the Art Deco towers in the CHSA powerpoint.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    I like how they look, but they don't create a lot of livable square footage.

    ...and therefore income.

    As a general rule, tenants are quite concerned with square footage, this will be a rental building that needs a solid income stream that might subsidize the rec center.

    So, I'd like a "ugly" boring, big box building, please.
  • jong
    jong
    Seems there was a big shooting right by the armory last night. Looks like folks are doing there best to literally resist gentrification.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    jong said:
    Seems there was a big shooting right by the armory last night. Looks like folks are doing there best to literally resist gentrification.
    Are you suggestion the shooting was part of a conspiracy to resist gentrification?
  • jong
    jong
    nope. but folks worried about rapid gentrification should keep in mind (dog crap everywhere, abundant litter, loud car stereos constantly, open drug dealing, shootings) that conditions in the area will continue naturally deter some folks from moving in. as long as the people involved in criminal activity continue to be in the area committing crimes, gentrification will proceed more slowly than it would if they weren't doing so - these are facts
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    If recent history is reliable, the forces of social change (aka gentrification or migration) are so strong that they will overwhelm such conditions.

    Those who shy away from an area as a result of such conditions, are merely replaced by those who are not, as well as those who view the conditions as temporary.

    The armory will do its part by serving whoever has the right combination of cash and power.
  • b_funk
    b_funk
    What was the big shooting last night? Not seeing anything about a shooting in the usual places.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    I saw this repot of shots fired at Bedford and Montgomery, but no one was reportedly injured.

  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited November 2016
    jong said:
    nope. but folks worried about rapid gentrification should keep in mind (dog crap everywhere, abundant litter, loud car stereos constantly, open drug dealing, shootings) that conditions in the area will continue naturally deter some folks from moving in. as long as the people involved in criminal activity continue to be in the area committing crimes, gentrification will proceed more slowly than it would if they weren't doing so - these are facts
    I respectfully disagree. 


    1. The dog crap is not as abundant as it was years ago. Case in point - Carroll Street on both sides of the Shuttle tracks. 

    2. Re:" gentrification will proceed more slowly than it would if they weren't doing so" If that were the case, gentrification would not be talked about so much now whether here, on the FB groups, in the media, or even in academic discourse. Places like Starbucks would not have moved in to Eastern Parkway and Franklin Avenue five years ago. (That Starbucks opened two years ago, by the way.) That is a fact.


  • jong
    jong
    1. it depends street by street. go look at Montgomery between Bedford and Flatbush, north side. It's horrifying

    2. that's ridiculous. Real estate agents have told me that folks seeing the news of stabbings and shootings, checking in with the precinct, are sometimes turned off from moving to the area. Some people don't care, as Whynot says, some do.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    jong said:
    1. it depends street by street. go look at Montgomery between Bedford and Flatbush, north side. It's horrifying


    Do you mean Montgomery between Bedford and Washington? Franklin? Montgomery doesn't go through to Flatbush because it ends at Washington.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Returning the armory, Bedford Courts has decided it will never again be accused of not benefitting the community. Not only has it formed an alliance with WIADCA, it is now sponsoring events where the local activist types are bound to be present.

    image
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    Ooo, partnering with Geoff Davis and First Baptist? Hard to stop that machine...
  • crownheightster
    crownheightster
    This is a serious throwdown
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited November 2016
    I don't know to what degree this represents an actual "ongoing partnership" between First Baptist and Bedford Courts.

    But, yes, it is fun to see both sides play the "we represent the ACTUAL community" card.

    There is rarely love between Diane Richards and Mr Davis, and this is no exception.
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