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Tivoli towers (Crown and Franklin) - Page 2 — Brooklynian

Tivoli towers (Crown and Franklin)

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  • mugofmead111
    edited July 2014
    Re: "Was the state really so stupid that it constructed the "Save Tivoli Contract" in a way that a building owner could use tax credits for operating an affordable housing complex that is mostly unoccupied?  "

    @whynot_31, I would say maybe the state should dig deeper to get to the truth. Oh, wait. This is a state whose governor shut down an anticorruption panel that he created. 
  • whynot_31
    edited August 2014
    Yea, the state isn't going to dig unless they are embarrassed/prodded into doing so.

    ...and not many of us want to show off how stupid we WERE, if we are still acting in the same manner. 

    (politicians and bureaucrats are no different in this regard)

    It is kind of ironic that the present demand for housing has the city in such a crunch that it is paying $3k a month to house a family thru nonprofits, while we simultaneously pay (ie forgo tax income) to keep large units vacant.

    That Gluck guy is not to be fooled with.
  • Wait...

    so, Tivoli is emptying. But nothing can be done with the building until 2024? Or does the owner plan to empty the building, and then raze it and rebuild? I see all the policy and legal language, but what is the plain english?
  • The plain english is that we don't know when the owner plans to fill the units.

    ....the owner could refill the units NOW with folks paying below market rents, but is clearly choosing not to.
  • whynot_31
    edited December 2014
    Here is an instance in which a landlord left apartments vacant for a long period of time, and is alleged to be using the lost revenue as part of a justisfication for a rent hike from the existing tenants:

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140909/lower-east-side/knickerbocker-village-tenants-fighting-13-percent-rent-hike

    If this practice is allowed, it may be what finally clears out the remaining tenants of Tivoli.

    Note: Speculation re: a practice does not equal support of a practice.
  • whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    The city has decided to use some of its own funds to ease the blow of the Feds actually enforcing their long standing "downsizing policy". 


    In many ways, this merely "kicks the can down the road".

    ...this funding won't last for long, and the Feds (aka HUD) look like they will have to impose more cuts (ie do more enforcement of existing rules) as time goes on.
    Needless to say, downsizing is still very necessary despite this small influx of money.

    Here's a pretty well researched article on the federal funding cuts that are driving HPD and NYCHA to enforce the rules: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/nyregion/budget-cuts-reshape-new-yorks-public-housing.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0

  • whynot_31
    edited December 2014
    This article discusses how the city will now longer enforce the rule that makes tenants no longer eligible for 1BRs move to studios:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/05/nyregion/new-york-city-housing-dept-eases-rule-forcing-low-income-tenants-to-downsize.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0

    I don't believe Tivoli has any studios, so when the LL/HUD/HPD discovered tenants had one only person in their household, said residents had to effectively leave the building as a result of the losing the subsidy.

  • Does Tivoli have enough 1 bedrooms to house the single adult population there?
  • It is my understanding that Tivoli now has vacant units of each type (1BR, 2BR, etc). If we imagine the process in orderly steps (it wasn't but let's imagine):

    Step 1 was to force tenants of 1BRs with only 1 person out of the building.

    Step 2 was to force "over housed" tenants of 2BRs into the 1 BRs.

    The LL and HPD ambitiously enforced the policies. As a result, it isn't clear to me that the "easing" of the rules by HPD will have any effect on the remaining tenants.

    ....those affected by the policy are gone, and I can't imagine that the policy has been "eased" to the degree that it would allow new or returning tenants to move into a unit that would "over house" them.
  • whynot_31
    edited July 2015
    Slowly, the building becomes more and more vacant.   However, the management agent continues to not accept applications from new tenants....

    Screen shot 2015-07-01 at 11.47.09 PM

    And, while the vacant units are being renovated, the occupied units are left to decay:  
     http://apartable.com/buildings/49-crown-street-brooklyn#building-issues

  • mugofmead111
    edited July 2015
    It's not on the list of rent stabilized buildings

    It's a Mitchell-Lama building? Hmmm...

    If the building is plagued by mold and structural maladies, how feasible would it be to tear it down and just start over?
  • whynot_31
    edited July 2015
    It seems to be subject to some kind of "affordability" as a result of agreements with HDC and HUD. There are limited circumstances wherein buildings can accept such funding without being in "Rent Stabilization", which is administered by HPD and HCR.

    From NYT article linked at top of thread:
    "Eager to stem the loss of housing for poor, working and even middle-class New Yorkers, the city’s Housing Development Corporation has agreed to provide Mr. Gluck with low-interest mortgages totaling about $45.7 million, an amount that includes paying off loans owed by the current owner. Rents will be allowed to rise, in many cases double. Ms. Mitchell, the tenant leader at Tivoli, said rent for her one-bedroom apartment would rise to $1,370, from $656.

    But the Department of Housing and Urban Development will provide tenants with larger rent subsidies to cover the increase. Tenants will be required to pay 30 percent of their income in rent.

    In return, Mr. Gluck has agreed to rent regulation and is required to keep Tivoli in Mitchell-Lama until 2040. His about-face, he said, represented a change in philosophy and a recognition of the depressed market. “Our plan is to keep this building affordable,” he said.

    ---end quote.

    I have heard of situations where buildings have become so vacant that the landlord elects to turn off the furnace and comply with the heating law by providing the tenants with electric heaters and "free" electricity.

    Such situations cause the common areas to hover at around 40 degrees, just warm enough that the pipes don't freeze.
  • @mugofmead111 -

    Here's an article that hints at how complex these deals can be:

    http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2015/07/30_million_rehab_project_of_st.html#incart_river

    Hopefully this deal required that the landlord keep the units occupied....
  • @mugofmead111 -

    Here's an article that hints at how complex these deals can be:

    http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2015/07/30_million_rehab_project_of_st.html#incart_river

    Hopefully this deal required that the landlord keep the units occupied....
  • I wish we could have had a deal like that 30 years ago...
  • The population seems really low income, which may have caused gov to fear that without intervention they would be shelter bound.

    I do not believe many former M-L developments can be described that way.
  • Returning to Tivoli towers:

    triv

  • whynot_31
    edited April 2016
    The newly elected officers of the Tivoli Tenants association.

  • This site continues to be one of the sites I believe will make a large impact on western Crown Heights:  http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/47007/the-big-18-developments-the-whynot-31-wont-stop-talking-about?new=1
  • Beds

    Baths# of UnitsAverage SFAvailable
    Studio Studio 0 Br 1 Bath 1 Bath 1 Ba 40 500 SF None of these are available.
    1 Bed 1 Bed 1 Br 1 Bath 1 Bath 1 Ba 120 650 SF None of these are available.
    2 Beds 2 Beds 2 Br 1 Bath 1 Bath 1 Ba 120 800 SF None of these are available.
    3 Beds 3 Beds 3 Br 1½ Baths 1½ Baths 1½ Ba 40 1,000 SF None of these are available.
  • whynot_31
    edited June 2016

    http://www.apartments.com/tivoli-towers-brooklyn-ny/cqngl3f/


    So, the building seems to have a total of 280 units.


  • -280 units.

    -Some % of them still vacant.

    -The landlord constrained by rent regulation and Mitchell Lama rules until 2024.

    I wonder if the city could get the Mitchell lama and rent stabilization rules waived for the vacant units, and then pay the landlord enough to fill them with homeless tenants.

    ...or -um- "graduates" from the shelter system who have super enhanced Vouchers.

    Seems like everyone would win until 2024.
  • whynot_31 said:
    -280 units. -Some % of them still vacant. -The landlord constrained by rent regulation and Mitchell Lama rules until 2024. I wonder if the city could get the Mitchell lama and rent stabilization rules waived for the vacant units, and then pay the landlord enough to fill them with homeless tenants. ...or -um- "graduates" from the shelter system who have super enhanced Vouchers. Seems like everyone would win until 2024.
    *cough* Preferential rent *cough*
  • That technique would work as well.
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