Puebla la Cucina Mexicana???
Comments
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I'm gonna wait a bit and then try the mole. That's my barometer.
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Idlewild wrote: With all due respect SJE asked for feedback, abeit from "food analysists, whatever that means, and now when people post their comments he/she derides them for doing so. And, a restaurant cannot better itself without the clientel speaking up. Most of the posts seem like valid critique to me.
It IS about respect, exactly! I *am* interested in hearing others opinions, that's why I read this, but the tone and impatience accorded this brand new place, which has been open for less than a week, sounded very mean to me. That doesn't seem constructive or helpful to anyone. How about some respect to the people who just went through major $$$ and trouble for your dining pleasure? That's what I meant.
By "food analysts', I had in mind some posts I read by others where they really dissected their dinner experience, that was very interesting. I'm very bad at regurgitating {no pun intended} a linear experience, like I can't easily explain the plot line of a movie, etc. That's what that was about. *sigh*
I realize alot of nuance doesn't translate on the web. -
Why get so emotional about business owners' feelings, when we are paying for a service. I don't give a shit about the "emotional" pain that went into creating a place, if the service and food sucks, why say kind things? Why get so worked up over what somebody thinks about a place? Really, the restaurant doesn't really exist to make people happy about Prospect Heights. It exists to make money. Consitency is part of the deal with returning to a place and making money. That's a fact, yet it is so odd that someone would get so emotionally upset over bad experiences and that I should appreciate that Toly has given us something, albeit something that is inconsistent. Thank god somebody opened a possibly shitty restaurant for me to make my experience in the neighborhood more enjoyable!
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LeeHo wrote: Why get so emotional about business owners' feelings, when we are paying for a service. I don't give a shit about the "emotional" pain that went into creating a place, if the service and food sucks, why say kind things? Why get so worked up over what somebody thinks about a place? Really, the restaurant doesn't really exist to make people happy about Prospect Heights. It exists to make money. Consitency is part of the deal with returning to a place and making money. That's a fact, yet it is so odd that someone would get so emotionally upset over bad experiences and that I should appreciate that Toly has given us something, albeit something that is inconsistent. Thank god somebody opened a possibly shitty restaurant for me to make my experience in the neighborhood more enjoyable!
There is such a good thing as being a good patron. I think you should care and be constructive, unless you want another store that sells $300 cushions or cell phones. Most restaurants don't even break even until their fourth year if they ever get there. Ever notice the quick changing landscape of fifth avenue?
Most posts are by far are fair. But it's not just this "Puebla" posting. I've read followed the history of postings for Sorrell, Noo Na's, Cheryl's, etc. and I get the feeling some people are of the mind that complaining about just anything makes them feel like an expert.
I just don't understand the sense of entitlement that some people have for their $12 entree. What do people expect from a place that has just opened and gets slammed on opening night? -
That Yarn Guy wrote: I've read followed the history of postings for Sorrell, Noo Na's, Cheryl's, etc. and I get the feeling some people are of the mind that complaining about just anything makes them feel like an expert.
I don't think that's a fair characterization. Sorrell and Noona got overwhelmingly positive reviews from the people here with very rare exceptions. -
Sorrel absolutely deserves positive reviews. Their food is fantastic! And, every restaurant deserves to have bad nights. But to attack someone for writing about their negative experiences is just lame. I don't get th idea of being thankful to someone if they aren't turning out a decent product. I still don't get the cost of Joyce cupcakes, but they do taste good, therefore it is hard to complain about the quality, right? Yes, maybe the mexican place needs to work out some kinks, but til it does so, it is fair to criticize what they are giving their patrons.
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In response to Yarn Guy's last post.
New business' that open in this area should stop fucking around and make their service worth our time and money. One gets the feeling that because we're classified as gentrified neighborhoods (Prospect Heights and Park Slope) that they can sucker us in with buzzwords such as "cocina", "bistro", "chef" and the like, put on a good show and brag about their "gourmet kitchen" experience, ergo, we should immediately file in, give them our money and enjoy what is presented to us. I don't see that as being a betterment to Vanderbilt Avenue or the surrounding area. I see that as filling up the area with sub-par service and half assed products. The person who owns the small restaurant on Vanderbilt and Park, as well as the pizzeria directly across the street is an example of someone who takes pride in his service just as much as the two brothers who own The Usual. Those two business and the pet store as well as Met Food and the Bike Shop are examples of how a business not only makes money but doesn't try to insult the neighborhood consumers with lousy service and high prices for mediocre products such as Joyce and Beast.
Now, can someone please open up a newsstand on Vanderbilt no further than Prospect Pl so I can get a paper without walking down to Flatbush? -
i don't think you should have to wait for a restaurant to smooth out its kinks that much. if the service is lousy and the food is iffy it should never, never be on the opening weekend! please. every place has a bad day here and there... but in the first few? no way, not acceptable.
when joyce's opened there were tons of kinks--and i've been vocal from the beginning with my own criticisms, and for various reasons it's not my choice of places--but from the get-go you were treated graciously even when there was only that one overwhelmed guy behind the counter, and the small selection was consistently good.
i might not be a restaurant owner, but i am a small business owner. no customer should come through the door till you know you can serve him/her to the best of your ability. and if you can't, keep the door locked. -
if i'd waited an hour and a half for service and got nothing, i'd sure as hell feel entitled to vent. whatever the owners spent on renovations and however good their intentions are (and i'd point out that these guys are local restaurant pros, not some poblano family that just crossed over), they're not hacking it.
i wish them well, and hope they fix what they need to fix. if they want to respond to the complaints here, they're as welcome to post as anyone. if they get their act together, i'm sure the comments here will reflect that. and if they don't, i'll be glad for people to communicate that here so that i don't waste my time there. -
My beef with Joyce is a petty thing. I asked a couple of times if they could give me a croissant and/or a cheese scone with butter on it and each time the manager was adamant about giving me the butter on the side and spreading it on myself. Not very practical when I have to eat it on the run. I declined the offer and ate them as is but I didn't give a tip. If places like The Usual and Bergen Bagel who charge less, or La Gamin who charge around the same can oblige I don't see why Joyce can't. Hence my critique. That's another thing that kills me is that every store that opens up has their tip jar out regardless of what swervice or product they provide.
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well, I know for a fact that Toly reads these boards, so he'll be seeing the comments.
I think the posts re: this restaurant seem fair thus far and not overly bitchy or obnoxious. it sounds like there's a genuine problem (like the post stating that the chef didn't come in one night and the owner was in the kitchen - WTF?! - that might work at Soda where the menu is super limited and simple, but that's NOT going to work at a restaurant with a specialty cuisine with many dishes that require significant amounts of prep) and I certainly hope that this restaurant works it out.
so far I've been pretty impressed with most of the new and established businesses in the nabe. the only places that have ever made me feel weird, unlike other posters here, have been Ripple (selective pricing), Cheryl's ("no, we aren't doing brunch"), and The Usual (that joint makes me appreciate Tom's so much - it takes them forEVER to serve food. there's a reason the line at Tom's moves so damn fast - the kitchen is AMAZING). and all of those places I'll give second, third or umpteenth tries, because they haven't been bad so far, just kinda lame or not up to my expectations.
the place I had a real beef with in the 'hood has closed, and that was Half. and even they filled a niche, at least a few years ago when they had fantastic bartenders and art openings and book release parties. and I hope that someone realizes that and also tries to open a quiet, adult wine-oriented place (with lots of non-booze options). -
brooklynpotter wrote: i don't think you should have to wait for a restaurant to smooth out its kinks that much. if the service is lousy and the food is iffy it should never, never be on the opening weekend! please. every place has a bad day here and there... but in the first few? no way, not acceptable.
Having worked in the restaurant business, I can definitely say that, well... you don't know what you're talking about in this instance. It DOES take time to work out kinks.
I opened two restaurants with a family that already had several. The menus were the same as their established locations, the POS systems were the same, everything was the same... with the exception of the restaurant layout and the employees (although several 'veteran' employees were brought over to teach the new recruits). With both of the two new restaurants, we did a mock opening - the regulars from the other locations were invited over for a complimentary meal. These very experienced restaurateurs knew that, even with as many variables controlled as possible, opening day would be shaky. Many adjustments were made with the information gleaned from the mock opening, but even so, it took a couple weeks until all of the employees settled in to their roles and learned how to efficiently work together as a team.
You expecting a restaurant to "serve him/her to the best of [their] ability" out of the gate belittles the amount of work that it takes to run a restaurant and betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject. -
WhyFi wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter]i don't think you should have to wait for a restaurant to smooth out its kinks that much. if the service is lousy and the food is iffy it should never, never be on the opening weekend! please. every place has a bad day here and there... but in the first few? no way, not acceptable.
Having worked in the restaurant business, I can definitely say that, well... you don't know what you're talking about in this instance. It DOES take time to work out kinks.
I opened two restaurants with a family that already had several. The menus were the same as their established locations, the POS systems were the same, everything was the same... with the exception of the restaurant layout and the employees (although several 'veteran' employees were brought over to teach the new recruits). With both of the two new restaurants, we did a mock opening - the regulars from the other locations were invited over for a complimentary meal. These very experienced restaurateurs knew that, even with as many variables controlled as possible, opening day would be shaky. Many adjustments were made with the information gleaned from the mock opening, but even so, it took a couple weeks until all of the employees settled in to their roles and learned how to efficiently work together as a team.
You expecting a restaurant to "serve him/her to the best of [their] ability" out of the gate belittles the amount of work that it takes to run a restaurant and betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject.
but ironing out the kinks--like a mock opening, or extra servers the first few weeks, or attentive owners on-site feeling out the vibe and stopping by tables, et alia--is something a business owner should do.
yes, i am not a restaurant expert. but i know a lot about running a business. i've also been a waitress. and know a lot about going out to dinner: the whole point is to get the meal and service you pay for. if you're an owner and things aren't going as planned, it's time to employ some customer service: a visit to customers along with a free glass of wine (which, btw, is legal i believe because it's a gift, not a sale), plying them with more salsa and guac and chips (which any owner of a mexican place should be able to whip up himself in a matter of minutes), etc. not doing so is bad business, evidenced by the comments on this board.
i don't care how new the place is, i won't go someplace with bad service and cruddy food. why should i?
in one of ruth reichl's books she relays a story about dining at one of the city's best restaurants during a night of very bad service and very bad food. nearby was a young couple; she got the feeling they'd saved a lot to treat themselves to this meal at the fancy restaurant. she felt so bad for them that she paid for their dinner. and she wasn't even the restaurant owner.
there's a difference between kinks and crud. `nuff said. -
I can see where both WhyFi and brooklynpotter are coming from - the same people that opened NooNa, for instance, opened this Puebla place. and the opening night at NooNa was slow. it took almost 2 hours to complete a relatively simple meal of a few appetizers and standard entrees. but the service was gracious, we got several refills on kimchee and starters, etc. it sounds like Puebla is suffering from other issues, and that could just be a lack of good staff, too many responsibilities for owners, or lousy luck. so I'll give them a few weeks to let them work it out, read the boards, talk to their customer base, etc. if they're still messing up on a Tuesday night in 3 weeks, I won't be very forgiving.
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brooklynpotter wrote: yes, i am not a restaurant expert. but i know a lot about running a business.
Having opened restaurants and a retail store, I can tell you that opening a restaurant is orders-of-magnitude more difficult. I'm not saying that they (Puebla la Cucina Mexicana) couldn't be doing some things better, but I am saying that expecting as-good-as-it's-gonna-get from a restaurant in it's first month, 'specially a new from the ground up place, is incredibly unrealistic. -
WhyFi wrote: I'm not saying that they (Puebla la Cucina Mexicana) couldn't be doing some things better, but I am saying that expecting as-good-as-it's-gonna-get from a restaurant in it's first month, 'specially a new from the ground up place, is incredibly unrealistic.
never said anything about "as good as it can get" in this short time period. and i see all of your points, but i think that as someone who's worked in restaurants you're not as objective as the regular consumer. most cutomers aren't pros, so they're not going to forgive the lack of basic standards.
it's not the consumer's problem if basic kinks aren't worked out. going out to dinner is not free; and you should have nice time out and a nice meal.
i know that my comments have ruffled your feathers, but i don't think you're looking at this from an unbiased view. (and neither am i, frankly, because bad customer service is one of my biggest pet-peeves.) but i think there has to be a middle ground. -
WhyFi wrote:
Maybe the phrasing was wrong, but I guess I do expect a restaurant to be gracious and welcoming, despite whatever kinks are going on in timing or cooking. I definitely found that at NooNa and the reopened Usual recently (the guys at the Usual were beyond gracious hosts). The slowness at this place did seem somewhat neglectful or brusque to me and it sounds like the wait we experienced on Thursday wasn't even that bad compared to the weekend.
You expecting a restaurant to "serve him/her to the best of [their] ability" out of the gate belittles the amount of work that it takes to run a restaurant and betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject. -
brooklynpotter wrote: never said anything about "as good as it can get" in this short time period.
Did I misinterpret this, then? -brooklynpotter wrote: no customer should come through the door till you know you can serve him/her to the best of your ability. and if you can't, keep the door locked.
Emily wrote: Maybe the phrasing was wrong, but I guess I do expect a restaurant to be gracious and welcoming, despite whatever kinks are going on in timing or cooking.
Absolutely. I don't deny that there seem to be big issues at this place, I just take exception to the global notion (possibly misinterpreted by myself) that a restaurant (or any other business) should be firing on all cylinders from the start. -
no misinterpretation. just a further clarification. i think that "the best of their ability" is relative depending on when the place opened.
you're trying to excuse what i believe to be bad business behavior as ironing out wrinkles in a new restaurant. i think there's a huge difference. -
Subject: Comments on Commentary
Boy, you folks are early posters. I just got through coffee #3 and the Post.
I would like to see Vanderbuilt return to what it originally was, Crown Heights' shopping district with quality store fronts, before NY went to hell in the mid-60s. Vanderbuilt has always been one of my favorite streets, low-rise wide buildings, generous sidewalks et al. It deserves a come-back.
I'll relay to you my experience with Aunt Suzie's in the early 90s. They were surley, they screwed up deliveries and they always gave you the wrong change for about three months. In the day, the $9 for a combo-platter seemed out of hand, now it's just plain cheap. It took about a year for them to shape up, but I was more glad to know that my neighborhood had a decent family-style restaurant when no other restaurant wanted to be on Fifth Ave.
The comments about waiting an hour and half are truly valid (although you have to wonder about the fella who willingly waited that long). Yes, that needs much much work, and I can't image that the staff hasn't noticed. Opening on a week-end is a classic restaurant blunder, but it is recoverable. I plan to go in a week, I'll bring a book just in case.
I still find some comments are mean-spirited and unfocused. And again, I say that some of these comments need questioning and commentary. Exempli gratia: the comments that leave me scrathing my head are Idlewild's.
Idlewild, I don't think anyone's named a restaurant a "Bistro" since 1989. And the high-steppin' word "Chef" comment? What do you call the guy makes the food? I don't think any of the Vanderbuilt businesses are out to rob you sanz-firearm unless you let them. If you look around that tip jar is a pretty standard companion to most cash registers. It gives you the option to rightfully tip 'em or stiff 'em if you so choose. They don't charge a gratuity.
BTW don't go tipless at Totonno's. You'll regret it. -
Subject: Re: Comments on Commentary
That Yarn Guy wrote: Idlewild, I don't think anyone's named a restaurant a "Bistro" since 1989.
OK, not all from this nabe, but all recent ('00s) in Brooklyn:
Futura Bistro Moderne
Bogota Latin Bistro
Sea Thai Bistro
M Shanghai Bistro & den
Little Bistro
Kotobuki Bistro
and of course, the now-defunct Bistro St. Marks -
brooklynpotter wrote: no misinterpretation. just a further clarification. i think that "the best of their ability" is relative depending on when the place opened.
Still don't know what that means, but let's move on...brooklynpotter wrote: you're trying to excuse what i believe to be bad business behavior as ironing out wrinkles in a new restaurant. i think there's a huge difference.
Huh? I'm not excusing anyone for anything. Maybe this is where the disconnect is - for me, this is a general conversation about expectations at the outset of a restaurant opening. For you, this conversation seems to be under the context of specific shortcomings following Puebla's opening. I'm discussing something tangent to the OP, not directly related to the OP.
If you believe that I'm a person that thinks businesses should be patronized simply because the owners are nice, or because they put so much work into it, or because it's local, or some other BS, you've got me all wrong. Good business is good business. A bad business needs to get their shit together or just die and make room for a good business. I have nothing but a starkly realistic view in this sense, as I feel do with expectations of a business in it's infancy.
Specific qualms aside, restaurants DO take a little time to really get their legs under 'em. How long should they be given? Well, I'm sure that that'll differ depending on who you ask, but most certainly it should be before their slush-fund runs out! :twisted: -
i think i'm one of the "negative" posters being referred to -- i had a less-than-pleasant time at cheryl's. here's why i posted what i did:
1. i have a limited eating out budget. so yes, as a matter of fact i do feel "entitled" to certain things when i spend $12 on an entree. i am a pretty good cook, so i do expect more than just nourishment when spending extra money. posts that help me avoid spending money on something that's not worth it help me avoid pricey disappointment AND may make me more likely to eat somewhere more than once -- if my first trip to a place is a good experience because i waited until things were running smoothly.
2. the idea that it is not "fair" to complain about poor service early on does a disservice to places like deacon blue, joyce, and the usual, who all managed to be friendly and helpful while working out the opening kinks.
i hope to try this restaurant, once they've had time to get things together. thank you to the posters who have shown me that it's a good idea to wait a while. in the meantime, i'll happily spend my eating-out allowance on the fried chicken at deacon blue. -
Subject: Re: Comments on Commentary
That Yarn Guy wrote: Boy, you folks are early posters. I just got through coffee #3 and the Post.
I am not insinuating that establishments on Vanderbilt Ave , orany other place in the Heights or the Slope is trying to rob anyone. I am stating, I believe, that just because someone opens a fad business, such as a gourmet or ethnic restaurant, or other type of high end like business that they expect the residents to come in and pile the money on the table because they feel they're giving us a superior product when in fact it's mediocre.
I would like to see Vanderbuilt return to what it originally was, Crown Heights' shopping district with quality store fronts, before NY went to hell in the mid-60s. Vanderbuilt has always been one of my favorite streets, low-rise wide buildings, generous sidewalks et al. It deserves a come-back.
I'll relay to you my experience with Aunt Suzie's in the early 90s. They were surley, they screwed up deliveries and they always gave you the wrong change for about three months. In the day, the $9 for a combo-platter seemed out of hand, now it's just plain cheap. It took about a year for them to shape up, but I was more glad to know that my neighborhood had a decent family-style restaurant when no other restaurant wanted to be on Fifth Ave.
The comments about waiting an hour and half are truly valid (although you have to wonder about the fella who willingly waited that long). Yes, that needs much much work, and I can't image that the staff hasn't noticed. Opening on a week-end is a classic restaurant blunder, but it is recoverable. I plan to go in a week, I'll bring a book just in case.
I still find some comments are mean-spirited and unfocused. And again, I say that some of these comments need questioning and commentary. Exempli gratia: the comments that leave me scrathing my head are Idlewild's.
Idlewild, I don't think anyone's named a restaurant a "Bistro" since 1989. And the high-steppin' word "Chef" comment? What do you call the guy makes the food? I don't think any of the Vanderbuilt businesses are out to rob you sanz-firearm unless you let them. If you look around that tip jar is a pretty standard companion to most cash registers. It gives you the option to rightfully tip 'em or stiff 'em if you so choose. They don't charge a gratuity.
BTW don't go tipless at Totonno's. You'll regret it.
As far my use of the word "Chef", to me the title applies to someone who takes pride in their cooking and said cooking presents itself that way to the patron. Others, who cook mediocre food when they claim to create great food, they are cooks. And I am not limiting that to Vanderbilt
Avenue, I included Park Slope as well as Prospect Heights. And by the way I include all buisiness' in this statement, whether it's a restaurant, a contractor, a interior decorator, etc.
As far as the tip jars are concerned, they are ridiculous. Yes, they are voluntary but I feel they are in bad taste. Places like Joyces, Cousin Johns, and Ozzie's where they charge you twice as much for coffee than regular diners or coffee shops and then tell you to put in your own milk, I'm sorry that to me doesn't justify a gratis. Stores like the Korean deli next to Park Cafe on 7th Ave by Berkeley or La Bagel Delight who put in the standard service such as making you a sandwich as per request and adding coffee and sugar to your coffee, and maybe go the extra mile by making a supersize sandwich, or letting you taste samples of their food without giving you a hassle, they get the tip.
I have lived in Park Slope and Prospect Heights for most of my life. I worked for seven years total in Bellamellio's and Bagels by Max and an additional seven years for Brownstone Car Service as driver and dispatcher. I have seen and experienced teething problems and even admit to causing some of the teething problems. I believe I have earned my stripes when it comes to knowing something about how to treat consumers. But like I say, this is me. I hope this has relieved some if not all the itching on your head. -
Three of us went to Puebla last Friday night and I'm sorry to report it was a disaster. A 50 minute wait for our food. A clueless waitress. Mediocre to bad food including beef so tough it was inedible. I will try again however, because i) I love Mexican food, ii) believe in supporting local businesses, and iii) really believe that restaurants, more than other retail establishments, need a little time to work out the kinks.
Some suggestions for the owners:
1. The wait staff need to really know the menu and be able not only to advise customers about individual dishes but also recognize when the kitchen has given them the wrong order!
2. Even when it looks like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, keep checking in with the customers. Reassure them that even though the kitchen is slow, their food is coming. Give them free chips and salsa. Give them free sodas. Apologize. Just don't leave people guessing/fuming.
3. Rework your schedules so that one of the owners is there every hour you are open for at least the next 3 weeks. Only the owner will trouble-shoot, redirect priorities in the kitchen, calm the customers etc to the degree necessary. Or, invest in a truly professional manager.
My first job was waiting tables. It was tough and I learned more about life than anything I've done since. So best of luck but please shape up before your customers give up! -
I agree with Roz's suggestions. This is where customer service, communication and free appetizers really go a long way to keeping the customers happy, understanding and willing to come back despite the opening week hiccups.
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there seems to be another issue at play here too. the owners, at least according to the posts here, are the same ones who opened the korean noo na nearby about a month before. noo na, if you check the thread, seems to have gotten off to a better start but still has kinks to work out (no kim chee the other night, according to carnivore, absurd for a korean place).
the problems at puebla cocina may just be a hard lesson in overextension. in two ways: first, get one restaurant right before you open another. you can't give them both the focus they need while they're new. and second, do these people really know french, korean and mexican cuisine?
joyce, although i object to her pricing, clearly knows how to bake. aliseo's is dining in tuscany without the plane ticket. and mike, as someone pointed out, knows bikes like nobody's business.
these people seem like dilettantes, if not--ok, i know i'm going to get slammed for this--culinary carpetbaggers. -
I think the common thread of most of their restaurants/bars (Le Gamin, Puebla Cocina, Soda, haven't been to Noona) is poor service. Whether that's because they rely on referrals from other workers or folks in the neighborhood or they train poorly... who knows? But I generally have to charm and tip folks in order to get the minimum of decent service in general. And that includes Aliseo where I once asked about how they made the Duck Ragu and was told that "This is a Northern Italian restaurant... it's not like Olive Garden." So I wasn't surprised when our waitress at Publa Cocina brought out everything at once. That's what happens when you hire someone who has probably never waited tables. That being said... I will definitely go back in a few weeks when they straighten out the menu and give my dry, lonely grains of rice what they needed... some beans!
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Alecorock wrote: And that includes Aliseo where I once asked about how they made the Duck Ragu and was told that "This is a Northern Italian restaurant... it's not like Olive Garden."
I have always had incredible service at Aliseo. I think they are one of the best restaurants in NYC. Not sure why you had a problem with the server, but each and every time I have gone there I've practically been made to feel like a member of their family. I think they are great. And the food is incredible. (of course food wise, I am easy to impress... being of irish catholic heritage, but if you can impress the girl from italy I bring with me, I give you props where they are due) -
Idlewild wrote: In response to Yarn Guy's last post.
I've always had excellent service and products at Joyce, and I've been there 5+ times and tried amny different things. And I don't think its an insult to the neighborhood to try to introduce high-quality goods at the appropriate price. She's done an amazing job turning that spot into a neighborhood friendly spot.
Those two business and the pet store as well as Met Food and the Bike Shop are examples of how a business not only makes money but doesn't try to insult the neighborhood consumers with lousy service and high prices for mediocre products such as Joyce and Beast.
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