Why is it that when a mid-scale

Can you be more specific? Do you mean Target? Any others?

I'm gonna both agree and disagree.

Target is not bad.
Marshall's....a complete dump (Last time I was there, there was merchandise blocking the aisles and there was a woman TRYING ON PANTYHOSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORE!!!)
My GF and I have a theory (which is gonna get me flamed here). We figure the problem with stores that open in Brooklyn is that they then hire people who live in Brooklyn. And then the shoppers who show up? They're from Brooklyn.

Don't get me wrong. I love Brooklyn and the folks here. It's just that we suck behind the counter...and in front of it.

I'm just speculating on this, but I'd guess that at the executive level these companies look primarily at the numbers coming out of these outlets in Brooklyn, and as long as those numbers are good there's no reason for them to send in the crack down and shake things up. And I hear that Brooklyn's Target is one of its most, if not its #1 most profitable store, and I'm guessing the BK Macy's, Pathmark and the rest are also doing well. How can it be that stores with such horrendous service can be profitable? Easy--no competition. New Yorkers' allergy to large chains (which I fully sympathize with from a taste perspective) has created a situation where those few chains that can convince enough local officials to allow them entrance (by promising hiring locals and using union labor, etc.), operate virtual monopolies because the mom & pop stores can't possibly match their economies of scale and there are no other strong competitors. I would personally hate this from an aesthetic standpoint, but you bring a Walmart, a Kmart and a Safeway into the area and suddenly Target/Pathmark etc. would be hard pressed to draw customers to its doors. In order to attract commerce it would have to compete on service as well as price, and it would crack down on its managers, who would in turn crack down on their employees. Service would improve. But right now, Brooklynites are so starved for a place like Target, with its cheap, wide selection, that all the place has to do its open its doors and let the money come rolling in. Combine the long standing history and culture of bad service in this city with the lack of meaningful competition, and voila, you have the miserable Pathmark shopping that you have now. Just my two cents.

sweet tea wrote: I can only add my shock that anyone has experienced good -- or even adequate -- customer service at that Target.

Here is a visual representation: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Sweet tea, when I received great service at Target I was as amazed as you! I hate it when there are so many people in a store that you cannot shop comfortably, so last week I decided to visit Target in the middle of the week around 2 pm or so. The store was far from crowded, sales associates asked customers if they needed any assistance, there were several checkout lanes open, items were placed nicely on the shelves and there was a general sense of calm in the store. If you have a day off, mid-week/mid-day is the time to hit up Target.

Excellent analysis, escap. I agree with you completely.

Thalia, I detest the self-serve checkouts! You're telling me to scan and bag my own groceries? I'm a shopper, not an employee. It's bad enough I have to shop at Pathmark but now I have work there too? Yuck.
You should get a discount for going through the self-service checkouts, because you've freed up an employee to do work elsewhere in the store.

I'll admit that I might have to stop by the Pathmark and go to the self serve just to hear the machine say "Thank you."

Subject: Feel free to move back to whereever you came from...

The underlying assumption in some of the posts within this string is basically offensive to anyone who is actually from Brooklyn and borderline racist. People "from Brooklyn", i.e. Black people are surly and rude.

The fact of the matter is that any Target in the country is going to be a nightmare shopping experience during the Christmas season. It has nothing to do with where it's located.

I'm assuming most of you came from other places (Manhattan, Nebraska, Kansas, Cape Cod, Oregon, etc.)... Feel free to shop/move there if Brooklyn isn't doing it for you. There are plenty of pristine big box stores with cheery, helpful staff and lovely condos available to you throughout the NY metropolitan area. At this rate FG/CG will be as as flavorless as Battery Park City or Boise, Idaho so I'd be happy to see the gentrification rate slow.

Target at Atlantic Center is usually a nightmare shopping experience (I say "usually" because people in this thread have had good experiences shopping at off-peak times) throughout the year. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's the holiday season.

Well, I can only draw from my own experiences working retail here in NYC and Washington DC while in college. Worked one winter at the GAP on 42nd Street between 3rd and Lex. Approximately half of the staff was Black or Latino with the rest being white. There were 3 people whose basic job all day was to fold and refold sweaters (this was when the sweater was 50% of the GAP's inventory). Other sales people/cashiers/ stockers had to assist in the folding of displays whenever they were not helping customers. At the end of the night every display had to be refolded so that the morning started with a store that was neat and clean. If merchandise fell on the floor, it had to be removed immediately, refolded and then put back on display.

With respect to customer service, we were required to greet each person that entered the store. We asked people who were browsing if they needed assistance and if they said no the response was, "My name is X, please let me know if you have any questions." Teaching your employees that kind of customer service has nothing to do with the color of the employees. It has everything to do with whether management cares. The reality is that large chains don't care if folks are still shopping there.

There are small businesses that are black owned that have black employees that don't have these issues. Have you ever been into Karen's Body Beautiful on Myrtle or Carol's Daughter on Dekalb? What about the african bookstore on Fulton and Flatbush. The service you get is very different because the owners realize that customer service keeps people coming in.

Having surly employees or inappropriately dressed employees is not a function of race, but it is very much a function of what behavior employers allow/condone.

Thalia... I wasn't trying to be helpful with my response. I was simply stating my opinion. Of course service is better at small businesses. They aren't inundated with thousands of shopper and don't have to manage a million different SKUs.

I should have stated that a place like Target will be a shopping nightmare during any peak shopping time, not just Christmas. The fact that Target has no competition has led to a supply/demand imbalance resulting in increasing sales regardless of the service level.

If you expect a decent environment and pleasant service don't go to Pathmark... I know I've only stepped foot in that place once in my 8 years in this neighborhood.

I'm all for sarcasm but the "flip side" that a majority black neighborhood deserves less is obviously ridiculous... and I don't think the neighborhood is majority black anymore. There are more Volvo wagons, Bugaboo strollers and Subarus than I can count

And while I've lived in Brooklyn for some time I've also lived in SC, CA, and MA as well as traveled most of the world. I know good service. As some of you mentioned, service is a function of your business model. One model is the Target, WalMart model: High volume/low margin/minimal service. Your profit margin isn't large enough to pay your staff well so you have a great deal of turnover. The opposite is the low volume/high margin/great service. Small shops, jewelry stores, etc. have this model.

Comparing Target to Carol's Daughter, Karen's Body Beautiful or even the Gap is ridiculous. More customers buy toilet brushes in a day at Target than visit all those stores combined in a week.

Basically the moral of the story is Target is Target. There are no other big box retailers in an area starving for retail. If you want white glove service go elsewhere. Common sense would tell you that unless it's Monday morning at 8a.m. Target is going to be a nightmare.

I know there are alot of do-gooders on the site so I apologize for bringing race into the mix, but its still implicit in many of your comments whether you recognize it or not...

I wonder if maybe we might all have a different definition of the term "mid-scale"? Thalia, could you elaborate?

For the record, I'm a person of color.

Mr. Banks:

I bet you're the kind of blockhead who steals fancy pens from poor starving waitresses...am I wrong?

For the record, I have a gold-plated toilet bowl brush from Carole's Daughter.

What do you have against oregon, anyway?

Banks, I'm going to assume the "You're not from Brooklyn" charge was not directed at me, because if it was I would be pissed, and I don't want to be. And if it's racist to think that increased competition is good for consumers, then I fully admit to being a racist.