SPLIT: speaking of haves and have nots&quo
So, speaking of "haves" and "have nots": can somebody define these things for me more clearly? I'm wondering where I personally would fit in. I went to an Ivy League school, I have a professional career (although lately I've had to supplement my income by working part-time as an Escort). Yet I rent and do not own my home. I am also a minority. My parents are both physicians and yet I was educated at (good) public schools. I am well spoken and well educated but I am also broke and in credit card debt. Does that make me a have or a have not?
Comments
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mypasswordwontwork wrote: So, speaking of "haves" and "have nots": can somebody define these things for me more clearly? I'm wondering where I personally would fit in. I went to an Ivy League school, I have a professional career (although lately I've had to supplement my income by working part-time as an Escort). Yet I rent and do not own my home. I am also a minority. My parents are both physicians and yet I was educated at (good) public schools. I am well spoken and well educated but I am also broke and in credit card debt. Does that make me a have or a have not?
that makes you a "have"
it's an interesting topic, which I might move to The Lounge if it gets picked up more here. It's not too on-topic for a nabe muggings thread. -
mypasswordwontwork wrote: So, speaking of "haves" and "have nots": can somebody define these things for me more clearly? I'm wondering where I personally would fit in. I went to an Ivy League school, I have a professional career (although lately I've had to supplement my income by working part-time as an Escort). Yet I rent and do not own my home. I am also a minority. My parents are both physicians and yet I was educated at (good) public schools. I am well spoken and well educated but I am also broke and in credit card debt. Does that make me a have or a have not?
totes a have -
I had gotten the impression from what I've read here that there was an automatic assumption that white meant "have" and minority meant "have not." (Obviously with exceptions like Oprah, JLo, Michael Jordan etc etc)
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Putting aside the fact that have and have not oversimplifies things way too much. Precious sounds like a have not to me. A lot of what she says applies to me, and I would judge me a have not. I think Striver might be a better term though
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steve wrote: I think Striver might be a better term though
Striving for what? -
the middle class.
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I go for a pretty broad definition of a pretty broad designation. Steve, I agree it's oversimplified -- of course, since it's one yes/no question.
I think most of the people here are "haves" since they have a computer -- unless of course they are accessing one at the library or school.
Education and access to some degree of economic power is the other tip off for me. You may have credit card debt, but you're a have because you *have* a credit card. You could turn yourself into a have-not that way, but to me it's more about the access and potential.
Google Haves and Havenots -
steve wrote: the middle class.
Interesting. But I wouldn't describe myself as striving for the middle class. That wouldn't make sense considering I was born into an upper-middle class family. My main gig is at a big advertising firm. However, my part-time Escorting gig could be classified as an "under class" type of profession, although I don't yet actually have sex for money.
What about you, Steve? What do/did your parents do? -
pitu wrote: I go for a pretty broad definition of a pretty broad designation. Steve, I agree it's oversimplified -- of course, since it's one yes/no question.
Good points. For me to call myself a "have not" because I am in debt from getting my Bachelor's at Harvard is kind of a slap in the face to true "have nots" who aren't even able to graduate high school.
I think most of the people here are "haves" since they have a computer -- unless of course they are accessing one at the library or school.
Education and access to some degree of economic power is the other tip off for me. You may have credit card debt, but you're a have because you *have* a credit card. You could turn yourself into a have-not that way, but to me it's more about the access and potential.
Google Haves and Havenots -
the have nots would not waste time talking about
icons or where a mugging happen in a neighborhood. muggins are part of life for alot of folks in have not areas.
they are worrying where their next pay check is coming from to pay for next meal or rent. worse things to worry about.
their food choices are usually take out or mc d's
and their commutes are usually longer than most. -
Hey Pitu - Happy New Year!
For me the big thing here is home ownership. I think this is what makes you a have (I am defining this for myself as smackdab in the middle of the middle class). Keeping in mind that home ownership is more difficult than average in our neck, I think at the very least age appropriate savings as opposed to credit card debt could also be a qualifier.
I look at computers and education as more or less mandatory requirements to escape the have nots.
I am lookign foreward to Dr. J's pov -
mypasswordwontwork wrote: [quote=steve]the middle class.
Interesting. But I wouldn't describe myself as striving for the middle class. That wouldn't make sense considering I was born into an upper-middle class family. My main gig is at a big advertising firm. However, my part-time Escorting gig could be classified as an "under class" type of profession, although I don't yet actually have sex for money.
What about you, Steve? What do/did your parents do?
Dad was a Commodities Broker, mom mostly raised us but she did some real estate work once we were in our teens. In another post I just wrote, I discussed what I think is the fulcrum for these have/have not and middle class divisions. I too come from an upper middle class family, and while I am "striving" to get to at least that level, though hopefully higher, right now I'm focused on middle class home ownership. -
steve wrote: Hey Pitu - Happy New Year!
I completely disagree about home ownership. I have some very privileged friends (we're talking serious old money) and they are still renting. New York is different from other cities in that respect. I also do not think that being a Have has anything to do with credit card debt and savings either. In my own case, I make $67,000 a year at my main job (and another $12k or so at my part time gig). I'm barely getting by on this. However, were I to get into real trouble, I have access to a lot of money, because my parents are very wealthy as are my maternal grandparents.
For me the big thing here is home ownership. I think this is what makes you a have (I am defining this for myself as smackdab in the middle of the middle class). Keeping in mind that home ownership is more difficult than average in our neck, I think at the very least age appropriate savings as opposed to credit card debt could also be a qualifier.
I look at computers and education as more or less mandatory requirements to escape the have nots.
I am lookign foreward to Dr. J's pov -
alot of the haves are not living within their means. than again most americans aren't.
we all spend more than we make. -
armchair_warrior wrote: alot of the haves are not living within their means. than again most americans aren't.
True. I also think that because we are so fortunate and spoilt as a nation, we forget what privilege really means. People in New York seem to feel hard done by just because they can't afford private school for their kids or can't afford the sort of car they'd like.
we all spend more than we make. -
mypasswordwontwork wrote: I had gotten the impression from what I've read here that there was an automatic assumption that white meant "have" and minority meant "have not." (Obviously with exceptions like Oprah, JLo, Michael Jordan etc etc)
I'm hispanic and a have. I never make assumptions about ppl unless they enumerate (as you did) their circumstance. it has nothing to do with race/ethnicity/religion/scifihero. -
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=mypasswordwontwork]I had gotten the impression from what I've read here that there was an automatic assumption that white meant "have" and minority meant "have not." (Obviously with exceptions like Oprah, JLo, Michael Jordan etc etc)
it has nothing to do with r......scifihero.
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My 2 cents: you're a 'Have'.
No meanness intended. -
Mamacita wrote:
None taken.
No meanness intended. -
Mamacita wrote: My 2 cents: you're a 'Have'.
I don't take it as mean. I have:
No meanness intended.
a home
food
clothing
a job
a savings acct
health insurance.
that all makes me a "have". ppl that don't have those things = "have nots" (unless they're absurdly wealthy otherwise). because, in my mind, those are things people should have, no matter what. -
Clearly have vs have not is a relative distinction, and with that in mind, I think it's absolutely absurd to call virtually anyone in the United States a have not. Maybe the bottom 1/100th of 1%, who is dying of AIDS and living in a gutter can be fairly classified as 'have not' on a global scale, but virtually everyone else has so much more in every way than the real have nots of this world. Your average American homeless person was provided with access to free public, quality education through high school, inoculations and other critical medical treatment at birth, access to free, quality medical treatment in case of emergency, public shelters, free food, handouts on the street that amount to far more than what many others earn in other parts of the world, the world's most developed infrastructure, and above all, life in a place that is free of war, chaos and widespread disease. Though obviously none of this access is sufficient by our standards, it is all well above what the real have nots are faced with. On a global scale, Americans dividing themselves into haves and have nots is essentially the equivalent of investment bankers and hedge fund managers quibbling with each other. With just a few exceptions, we are all "haves", and therefore, well, we should all stop bitching.
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escap, thats right man.
the poorest american can go almost any where in the world besides other first world countries, they would be consider rich and well off. -
i'm free as a bird girl hehe.
. i'll pm you my number. if you haven't gotten it yet from the ad section . -
armchair_warrior wrote: i'm free as a bird girl hehe.
. i'll pm you my number. if you haven't gotten it yet from the ad section .
Got your PM. I'm a little shy but will try to call soon. :oops: -
hehe don't be shy. i'm only shy when first contact. but after that i'm not shy at all.
I don't bite mostly. -
armchair_warrior wrote: hehe don't be shy. i'm only shy when first contact. but after that i'm not shy at all.
I don't bite mostly.
How old are you, by the way? -
mypasswordwontwork wrote: [quote=armchair_warrior]hehe don't be shy. i'm only shy when first contact. but after that i'm not shy at all.
I don't bite mostly.
How old are you, by the way?
mod note - please take this entire discussion to PM. thanks. -
How rich are you? Enter your annual income and this will give your approximate world wealth ranking.
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alafairnadia wrote: [quote=mypasswordwontwork][quote=armchair_warrior]hehe don't be shy. i'm only shy when first contact. but after that i'm not shy at all.
I don't bite mostly.
How old are you, by the way?
mod note - please take this entire discussion to PM. thanks.
Yeah- Really, this sort of "flirting" should be off-thread. Yuck.
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