drug use in america: op in the NYT

pitu · January 2007

interesting opinion piece in the NYTimes today
The author argues that the focus on reporting teen drug use misses the mark . . . and points to all the 40-50somethings overdosing . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/03/opinion/03males.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Mike Males, senior researcher at the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice. wrote: While Monitoring the Future, an annual study that depends on teenagers to self-report on their behavior, showed that drug use dropped sharply in the last decade, the National Center for Health Statistics has reported that teenage deaths from illicit drug abuse have tripled over the same period. This reverses 25 years of declining overdose fatalities among youths, suggesting that teenagers are now joining older generations in increased drug use.

Mike Males wrote: Among Americans in their 40s and 50s, deaths from illicit-drug overdoses have risen by 800 percent since 1980, including 300 percent in the last decade. In 2004, American hospital emergency rooms treated 400,000 patients between the ages 35 and 64 for abusing heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, hallucinogens and â€œclub drugsâ€ like ecstasy.

Equally surprising, graying baby boomers have become Americaâ€™s fastest-growing crime scourge. The F.B.I. reports that last year the number of Americans over the age of 40 arrested for violent and property felonies rose to 420,000, up from 170,000 in 1980. Arrests for drug offenses among those over 40 rose to 360,000 last year, up from 22,000 in 1980. The Bureau of Justice Statistics found that 440,000 Americans ages 40 and older were incarcerated in 2005, triple the number in 1990.

Yet drug officials seem fixated on paper-and-pencil surveys of drug use by teens.

escap · January 2007

That was a good article. I'd especially point out the paragraph above that begins "Equally surprising," as it lends further evidence to a lack of connection between poverty and crime, since older Americans also tend to be wealthier, and there certainly was no corresponding spike in poverty among baby boomers from 1990-2005 at the levels that crime is reported to have increased among that group.

Oh, and btw, if this article doesn't scream "Drugs should be legalized" then I don't know what does. It talks about the massive amounts of money that have been spent on border patrol, enforcement and incarceration, all as drug use has soared. Of course, I've been trying to bait people into an argument all day and no one's been biting, so I guess it's useless.

doctorj · January 2007

This makes some sense to me. It usually takes a good decade to develop a solid polypharmacy problem, and the internal organs of the graying generation aren't as robust as those of the teens whom they're lecturing on the evils of non-state-sanctioned neuromodulators.

lostingreenwoodhts · January 2007

My folks are getting high again? Doing stick-up jobs?

Great news, as long as they stay off the meth! Means they won't totally smoke up my inheritance...

KIDDING!!! :twisted:

Very interesting article. For all it's seriousness, my wife and I had a good guffaw over lunch.

pitu · January 2007

doctorj wrote: This makes some sense to me. It usually takes a good decade to develop a solid polypharmacy problem, and the internal organs of the graying generation aren't as robust as those of the teens whom they're lecturing on the evils of non-state-sanctioned neuromodulators.

:roll:
erm, it actually says that teens are overdosing at rates three times higher than they used to - debunking the self-reporting study some dorkasaurus was spinning.
THEN it goes on to talk about all the middle age folks. The ones with a decade or more of polypharmacy . . .

doctorj · January 2007

escap wrote:
Oh, and btw, if this article doesn't scream "Drugs should be legalized" then I don't know what does. It talks about the massive amounts of money that have been spent on border patrol, enforcement and incarceration, all as drug use has soared.

Now wait just a minute... spare a thought for the stockholders of pharmaceutical companies and prison industries. Aren't you concerned at all for the portfolios of our middle-class brothers and sisters?

doctorj · January 2007

pitu wrote:
erm, it actually says that teens are overdosing at rates three times higher than they used to -

My goodness! Isn't there some sort of medication we can prescribe these kids to make them to say no to drugs?

pitu · January 2007

doctorj wrote: [quote=pitu]
erm, it actually says that teens are overdosing at rates three times higher than they used to -

My goodness! Isn't there some sort of medication we can prescribe these kids to make them to say no to drugs?

don't worry - they'll find their own way

escap · January 2007

doctorj wrote: [quote=escap]
Oh, and btw, if this article doesn't scream "Drugs should be legalized" then I don't know what does. It talks about the massive amounts of money that have been spent on border patrol, enforcement and incarceration, all as drug use has soared.

Now wait just a minute... spare a thought for the stockholders of pharmaceutical companies and prison industries. Aren't you concerned at all for the portfolios of our middle-class brothers and sisters?

haha, good point. The prison industries no doubt would suffer, but I'm sure Pharma would be all over the meth labs and ganja fields.

doctorj · January 2007

escap wrote:
haha, good point. The prison industries no doubt would suffer, but I'm sure Pharma would be all over the meth labs and ganja fields.

Without patent protection? On products easily grown or made at home? For this kind of bulk business, I'd be buying futures in Altria and Anheuser-Busch, and put options on big Pharma.

quijibo · January 2007

Subject: Re: drug use in america: op in the NYT

Mike Males wrote: Among Americans in their 40s and 50s, deaths from illicit-drug overdoses have risen by 800 percent since 1980, including 300 percent in the last decade. In 2004, American hospital emergency rooms treated 400,000 patients between the ages 35 and 64 for abusing heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, hallucinogens and â€œclub drugsâ€ like ecstasy.

how the heck does one overdose on pot :-s

apollonia666 · January 2007

Subject: Re: drug use in america: op in the NYT

quijibo wrote: [quote=Mike Males]Among Americans in their 40s and 50s, deaths from illicit-drug overdoses have risen by 800 percent since 1980, including 300 percent in the last decade. In 2004, American hospital emergency rooms treated 400,000 patients between the ages 35 and 64 for abusing heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, hallucinogens and â€œclub drugsâ€ like ecstasy.

how the heck does one overdose on pot :-s

Yeah, I was just about to point that out too.

Aside from that -- VERY weird to think about 64-year-old junkies and meth-heads. I didn't think they usually lasted that long.

escap · January 2007

doctorj wrote: [quote=escap]
haha, good point. The prison industries no doubt would suffer, but I'm sure Pharma would be all over the meth labs and ganja fields.

Without patent protection? On products easily grown or made at home? For this kind of bulk business, I'd be buying futures in Altria and Anheuser-Busch, and put options on big Pharma.

Fine, things like weed would not be for Pfizer--perhaps Altria or an agri firm like ADM would be all over that one, who knows. But it's not that easy to make good ecstasy or yayo, is it? And I'm sure the pharmas could come up with something creative. (ugh, this conversation is making even me feel queasy) :?

doctorj · January 2007

escap wrote: But it's not that easy to make good ecstasy or yayo, is it?

Well... yayo is easier than aspirin but harder than alcohol. Ecstasy is easier than zantac or prilosec but harder than aspirin. That should give you an idea of the likely supermarket price-points before tax in a deregulated market.

escap wrote: And I'm sure the pharmas could come up with something creative. (ugh, this conversation is making even me feel queasy) :?

The big pharmas will only ever be interested in researching what they can get doctors to prescribe and insurance companies to pay for during patent protection. Unless there's a good chance the FDA will say a given type of chemical has medicinal value, there's no potential for the enormous markup required to justify the investment, even if everything and anything were somehow made legal. For the foreseeable future, patents and the DEA will be there to keep the prices high and the respective licit and illicit industries in place.

alafairnadia · January 2007

Subject: Re: drug use in america: op in the NYT

apollonia666 wrote: [quote=quijibo][quote=Mike Males]Among Americans in their 40s and 50s, deaths from illicit-drug overdoses have risen by 800 percent since 1980, including 300 percent in the last decade. In 2004, American hospital emergency rooms treated 400,000 patients between the ages 35 and 64 for abusing heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, hallucinogens and â€œclub drugsâ€ like ecstasy.

how the heck does one overdose on pot :-s

Yeah, I was just about to point that out too.

Aside from that -- VERY weird to think about 64-year-old junkies and meth-heads. I didn't think they usually lasted that long.

re: pot. I know some ppl who have tried to use pot to kick other addictions and have put themselves in the hospital with severe lung distress from smoking too much pot. not sure if that's considered an OD, but I can imagine that if these folks were 20 years older, had at some point in their lives smoked cigs, and had, perhaps, some high blood pressure or heart disease issues, it could prove fatal. sounds random and weird, but I've heard this story more than once.

also, scary but true - I know a lot of folks over the age of 50 who have major crack, meth, prescription drug, cocaine and/or heroin issues. alcohol is the least of their concerns. and many of these are successful folks - wealthy by our board standards. just struggling. seriously - if you have an excuse (close to someone with problems, thinking you might have issues yourself) hit an al-anon or *-anonymous meeting. it's horrifying to find out how many folks are in major pain because of substances. and a lot of them look like you (generic you, folks). or prettier.

I, for one, am very grateful I never really learned to love the drugs. my alcohol issues are obnoxious enough. I can't imagine having a struggle beyond this one later in life. christ. what a pain in the ass.

while regular politically I think drugs should be legalized, I don't know how I feel about the issue in terms of addiction politics. I guess I'd want more info about how other countries with more liberal drug policies deal with addicts. cause if you've got drugs, you've deffers got addicts.

doctorj · January 2007

Subject: Re: drug use in america: op in the NYT

alafairnadia wrote:
while regular politically I think drugs should be legalized, I don't know how I feel about the issue in terms of addiction politics. I guess I'd want more info about how other countries with more liberal drug policies deal with addicts. cause if you've got drugs, you've deffers got addicts.

You could look at decriminalization and treatment in the Netherlands ('soft drugs') or free heroin for addicts in Switzerland. The bottom line is that softening the law for a given substance doesn't tend to cause an increase in the number of addicts, as addiction is not something people seek or a majority fall into -- it depends on the interplay of genes, personality, and the substance in question. But I agree that law reform and better treatment options go hand-in-hand.

escap · January 2007

OK, Doctorj, you win.

Luckily, I don't actually care about big pharma's profits, especially since I don't own shares in any of em! In all seriousness, I do believe that drugs should be legalized, but I also recognize the complications and if it happens it has to be done "right", which it won't be. I don't believe, for example, that it's been done right in Amsterdam, but give them credit for trying. Like you said, treatment options, education and public awareness are crucial. I am NOT implying that drugs are safe, just that their criminalization creates even worse problems than it solves, at enormous cost to society.

alafairnadia · January 2007

Subject: Re: drug use in america: op in the NYT

doctorj wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]
while regular politically I think drugs should be legalized, I don't know how I feel about the issue in terms of addiction politics. I guess I'd want more info about how other countries with more liberal drug policies deal with addicts. cause if you've got drugs, you've deffers got addicts.

You could look at decriminalization and treatment in the Netherlands ('soft drugs') or free heroin for addicts in Switzerland. The bottom line is that softening the law for a given substance doesn't tend to cause an increase in the number of addicts, as addiction is not something people seek or a majority fall into -- it depends on the interplay of genes, personality, and the substance in question. But I agree that law reform and better treatment options go hand-in-hand.

yeah. I hear you. the criminal aspect is terrible for an addict - not only are they struggling with addiction issues and all that goes hand-in-hand with that (acute mental health issues, emotional distress, family and professional problems, etc.), but they're also in trouble with the cops and the law? gigantic horribleness. I can't believe the number of horror stories I've heard just from my college friends (and yes, I went to one of those top 5 liberal arts schools - I'm talking about smart degenerates), not to mention folks I've met since that time. and practicing criminal law in texas? oh man. there are clear reasons why I quit that shit job.

so yeah, the criminal issues need to disappear, and we do agree that the treatment issues need to step up in their place. people who are in 3 month rehab 18 times (so yeah, they're old) are not ever going to do better. they keep trying, because they keep getting arrested and being told to pull their shit together, but the junk is a stronger force. it's really awful. and I guess that's why, despite knowing that criminalization of drugs doesn't work and that the war on drugs is a big bunch of overpriced hooey, I can understand why they're illegal. le sigh.

doctorj · January 2007

One of my friends just got out after a few years in prison for violent crimes to pay for junk. Hope it gets better from here on. He's one of the smartest guys I've known, has a phd, and used to have a career. Never saw him hurt a fly in the many years we hung out, nor was he a problem to others when I figured he was using but fixed. There were some treatment options available (methadone) but clearly insufficient in combination with criminalization.

drug use in america: op in the NYT

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