another angry rant about out-of-control children
Comments
-
TuckPendleton wrote: PS parents (and this does seem endemic to here, having lived all over NYC) seem determined not to let the fact they have kids get in the way of their lifestyle. These parents find nothing wrong with dragging their kids to a 10pm dinner at crowded, popular restaurant on a Saturday night. Or a late movie, or to a art show, or whatever the inappropriate situation is.
Funny you should bring that up...
Parenting is putting your children before yourself, something a lot of these PS parents don't seem to get. Obviously, there are those who do this correctly, but it's certainly not the majority...
I haven't had the conversation with actual PS parents so I can't include them, but childless PSers I've talked to who want a family, always seem to really stress the cost of having a family but not in the way you'd normally expect. You see, it's not so much the child-rearing expenses that they are looking at but how they can maintain their current lifestyle/spending habits! -
apollonia666 wrote: [quote=Mamacita]I never cursed when I was young, it wasn't allowed. In my teens I finally started, but never in the house.
Same here. Or more precisely, I cursed ONCE, and my parents made it abundantly clear it wasn't to happen again.
Been there too! I called a neighbor a jacka** once and was met with my mom holding a bar of soap which she made me take a bite out of. Every time I catch the scent of Ivory soap I get a terrible stomach ache. My mom was great and I learned alot about being a parent from her - but I have also learned from her mistakes. My son knows how to act in public and knows how to be responsible for his actions. He learned from an early age that there are consequences to him misbehaving. If my mom gave you the look you knew to calm down - but if she called my name through gritted teeth - well you knew there was trouble then
Its so funny for me because my mother used to do something that I hate - and that is whenever I would question her (i.e., why won't you let me do this or why can't I have that) and she would answer "because I am your mother and I say so" this drove me nuts!! Then when my son was about 4 and he was asking me a question and he kept harping on why can't I do this I turned around and said "because I am your mother, that's why" and then I realized - I had become my mother! (To which I am very proud to admit). -
I understand the the PS parent thing is really it's own world - really, i do. And I find it interesting that the debates raging in other gentrifying brooklyn neighborhoods lean toward "old timers vs. newcomers". In PS, it seems - this is only my opinion - to be the childless vs the parents.
That said, I will fully admit I don't understand the whole thing, including the need to place blame. Has no one here ever been so tired or hungry they've cried? Has no one here ever been so angry that they can't find the words to express themselves? Imagine how it is for a child - and I assume you're talking pre-k/elementary age - who don't have those skills at all. And there is a reason for the old saying "if I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times..."
As adults, we are able to throw our temper tantrums at our bosses and spouses and on the internet on chat groups. And for the many of you who said they got smacked - and I count myself in that group - it was because you did something wrong. My guess is if you saw the parent swatting the kid, something would be said about that too. And of course, someone would call the police. Half the time, parents take their kids out to avoid a meltdown - either theirs or the kid's.
Bottom line is that you don't know what anybody's story is. What occurred before you saw the misbehaving child. How bad the parent's day is going. You just don't know, and I think what I really disagree with here is how quick so many people are to place blame and judgement on others.
Yes, some parents are neglectful or just plan bad - they are. But it's unreasonable to expect kids not to be playing in a public park, or to never be aproached or disturbed - by anyone - when you are out.
Yes I'm a parent. No, my kids are older than the ones that bother you. No, I live in a neighborhood adjoining PS, but near enough that I benefit from reading this board. I don't have "help", or a trust fund, or a wealthy spouse or an SUV.
I'm new and somewhat confused about why someone can begin a rant, but others can't offer an opposing viewpoint. -
well, there is opposing viewpoint nd then there is a personal attack. that's the difference.
and you don't seem to be quite understanding what i'm saying, so let me try again: kids get tired, cranky, excited, hyper, antsy, sad, happy. these are all NORMAL things. in fact, grown-ups get this way as well. but as a grown up, if your kid runs over and kicks someone, smashes another person's lunch to the ground, smacks a nice lady in the face twice with their kite, then it is the PARENT'S responsibility to stop the behavior. a: because it's common sense that it's wrong, and b: because the child has disturbed and/or harmed the other person. -
bklyngirl wrote: Bottom line is that you don't know what anybody's story is. What occurred before you saw the misbehaving child. How bad the parent's day is going. You just don't know, and I think what I really disagree with here is how quick so many people are to place blame and judgement on others.
To be honest, some of the people I have in mind I know pretty well.
And no, I'm not put out by some random child crying in the middle of the day under most circumstances - it happens. -
I totally agree. I think none of us is blaming kids. People are upset because it is parents' job to stop them and teach them to apologize if they did something wrong. Apparently, people are upset not because kids misbehaved, but because of the absence of the parents who does--or try to do so.
-
my brother was one of those kids who ran around like a maniac; my mother put him on a leash. laugh. say it's mean. without that leash he'd likely have run into the street and gotten killed.
and i have to tell you, if a kid kicked me while i was having lunch i don't know that i wouldn't kick him back purely out of sheer instinct -
I'm sure you are all lovely people, but I doubt that any of you were as polite and well-behaved at the age of three as you think you were.
-
rose, lol. though my mother will tell you differently. and she put all the blame of any bad behavior straight on my brother. they used to call him the "walking disaster area"
-
I agree, Rose (and nice cat!). My sister was a biter. It didn't take much to provoke her - in fact, it took a mere glance.
I agree - no one is blaming the kids. yes, it IS the responsibility of the parents to apologize for their child AND make the child apologize. It is also the responsibility of the parent to remove a child from a restaurant or enclosed place if the child is in full-blown melt-down. Unfortunately, life is more complicated than that, and removal is not always possible, or not as possible as quickly as some people would like.
Yes, Brooklynpotter, children will disturb people. We live in a city where we live close together. There are plenty of local crazies who scare me more than the kids. My pet peeve is the people who smoke outside my office building while on their cell phones. They are very animated and have burnt me with their cigs on many occasions. Then there are the people who don't pick up after their dogs.
We all have a gripe. What I disagree with is starting a rant, as I see it, for no reason to than to vent and start a posse against people who are then perceived as lazy, irresponsible, overly wealthy, underly involved, etc. I suspect the people bothered most are the ones who don't have kids. Wanna rant? Use the phrase "those people".
As a lifelong NYer and a parent, I can tell you it is a no-win situation. Between the pregnancy police, the kiddie police, the bad nanny police, the childless (or child-free, take your pick), the uberboobers and the sanctimommies - well jeez. We dress our kids too slutty, or give them fake guns. I do what I can, and as my kids are getting older, I can see the hard work paying off. You really wouldn't have thought so when they were 3.
If there was some way to harness that anger and turn it into something productive. Use the power of all this anger to make someting good happen, even just a little. Crying and moaning is no better than the "self-absorbed" parents being complained about.
Or maybe I'm just in the wrong place here. -
Rose wrote: I'm sure you are all lovely people, but I doubt that any of you were as polite and well-behaved at the age of three as you think you were.
As a quiet, shy little girl growing up in the late 50's-early 60's I assure you I was extremely well-behaved! O:) -
MichaelKeys wrote: PPS: The “wait-til-you-have-your-own-kids†routine is a cop out.
I'm waiting for the little monsters right now so I can smack em' and scream "shut up and sit the goddamn hell down!"
:twisted:
If there's any thing that disturbs me more than submissive parents allowing their kids to act like brats in public, it's parents screaming like psychos at their kids. -
raw wrote:
i know. was at the botanic garden over the summer with my brother and there was this family in the gift store and the dad (very clean cut, southern, wound as tight as a stick, kids called him "sir") scared the crap out of me. and his kids, too. and he was making it clear that if the kids didn't behave he'd smack them. worse, he'd brought them into the gift store and they wanted, like any other kid, to touch everything. which made the dad angrier. it was fairly horrifying.
If there's any thing that disturbs me more than submissive parents allowing their kids to act like brats in public, it's parents screaming like psychos at their kids.
but isn't this part of the same issue: bringing kids where they clearly shouldn't be? it's mean to bring your tired and hot children into the gift shop, filled with cool toys, and yell at them when they're curious.
i know what it's like not to like a parent, but i can't imagine being terrified of one. treating your kids like crap shouldn't be the opposite of letting them run wild. -
bklyngirl wrote:
Join the club.
Or maybe I'm just in the wrong place here. -
In each scenario brooklynpotter mentioned what was lacking was an apology from the parent/caregiver. A lot is forgiven with an apology.
-
because in each scenario i've made a point of explaining that i felt the problem was with the parents, not the children.
and i think it's more than an apology, it's a matter of remember that your children are children. they don't always know what is right and wrong, isn't that a parent's job? -
What I can't comprehend is the complete obliviousness to what their children are doing. It's like they've gone blind and deaf.
-
kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=bklyngirl]
Join the club.
Or maybe I'm just in the wrong place here.
Oh, K-mother please don't play the martyr on the first day of your return. Wait a spell - and welcome back.
And for the record, I'm a parent. And I don't hate children. And I'll say that short term pain = long term gain. -
I know none of the child-free here want to hear this, but it's true: you have no idea what it's like unless you've been there. You THINK you know, but until you've experienced the fatigue, the thanklessness of the job, the judgment of others...you're 4 year old yelling out "I hate you mommy" in the library. That's not from bad parenting - that's from them being little kids, plain and simple.
If an apology isn't good enough, please tell me what is. What would make it all better for you?
Perhaps PS isn't the utopia the child-free are looking for. Try Chelsea. Me, I'm looking for someplace people won't throw their dog ends in my trash bin. -
bklyngirl wrote: I know none of the child-free here want to hear this, but it's true: you have no idea what it's like unless you've been there. You THINK you know, but until you've experienced the fatigue, the thanklessness of the job, the judgment of others...you're 4 year old yelling out "I hate you mommy" in the library. That's not from bad parenting - that's from them being little kids, plain and simple.
I am just curious why you are taking this so personally.
If an apology isn't good enough, please tell me what is. What would make it all better for you?
Perhaps PS isn't the utopia the child-free are looking for. Try Chelsea. Me, I'm looking for someplace people won't throw their dog ends in my trash bin.
I don't think the original post was aimed at you. Maybe with all your thankless parenting, your kids arent the ones mentioned here. Perhaps they aren't smashing peoples lunches to the ground. But the post was about kids that are.
You don't have to step up to defend all parents. And I dont think that anyone is looking for a child-free zone. We were all children once. I think people remember that. But lord you are taking this personally. Hopefully you have children who appreciate your parenting in a few years. But honestly, I think the post was probably not about your kids. So take yourself off the hook a little and relax. -
bklyngirl wrote: I know none of the child-free here want to hear this, but it's true: you have no idea what it's like unless you've been there. You THINK you know, but until you've experienced the fatigue, the thanklessness of the job, the judgment of others...you're 4 year old yelling out "I hate you mommy" in the library. That's not from bad parenting - that's from them being little kids, plain and simple.
no, bad parenting is keeping the screaming child in the library once the tantrum begins. it's about telling your kids it's not ok to smash someone's lunch and then having your child see that their parent now has to take responsibility for that.
how many times have i said that little kids act out, get tired, run... how many times have i said it was the parent's job to fix this. i don't care if you're tired, it's your job to remove an ill-behaving child from a situation the child shouldn't be in.
you know something? i'm tired as well, and when my breakfast is ruined, say, because some child came and kicked me as i was eating, that's really NOT ok. -
jayce wrote: [quote=bklyngirl]I know none of the child-free here want to hear this, but it's true: you have no idea what it's like unless you've been there. You THINK you know, but until you've experienced the fatigue, the thanklessness of the job, the judgment of others...you're 4 year old yelling out "I hate you mommy" in the library. That's not from bad parenting - that's from them being little kids, plain and simple.
I am just curious why you are taking this so personally.
If an apology isn't good enough, please tell me what is. What would make it all better for you?
Perhaps PS isn't the utopia the child-free are looking for. Try Chelsea. Me, I'm looking for someplace people won't throw their dog ends in my trash bin.
I don't think the original post was aimed at you. Maybe with all your thankless parenting, your kids arent the ones mentioned here. Perhaps they aren't smashing peoples lunches to the ground. But the post was about kids that are.
You don't have to step up to defend all parents. And I dont think that anyone is looking for a child-free zone. We were all children once. I think people remember that. But lord you are taking this personally. Hopefully you have children who appreciate your parenting in a few years. But honestly, I think the post was probably not about your kids. So take yourself off the hook a little and relax.
That kind of reaction leads me to wonder if it is her kids. I don't know any four year olds who scream "I hate you mommy" in libraries. Usually they don't do that 'til their teens.
People don't want an apology, they want you to act like a civilized member of society and do the right thing by taking responsibility for your child's behavior and remedying the situation. If you spilled someone's drink at a bar you'd buy them a new one, right? Why wouldn't you do the same in a restaurant? For someone who's demanding so much accomodation you don't seem to have a lot of empathy to offer anyone else. -
erikka wrote: . I don't know any four year olds who scream "I hate you mommy" in libraries. Usually they don't do that 'til their teens.
I know quite a few who do it.
Mom is best friend when they get their way, but when they don't, its ten ways to hurtful. Kids are very black and white that way. Difference is its meant to be a lot meaner when they are teenagers. The intent is more hurtful. But 4 year olds totally say things like that. -
Four-year-olds are like the adolescents of toddlerhood. They can be pretty horrible.
-
I'm a teacher and it all follows them into the classroom. It's exhausting and discouraging working with the ones who walk around with a sense of entitlement or are manipulative. When I meet the parents I can see how they got this way. So, it's hard to just say, "Well, OK, they're kids and they'll grow out of it..." They don't always and it makes a job I dearly love very challenging, and worse, also creates an environment of cruelty among students. I think that asking parents to teach their kids to be thoughtful, decent human beings is not asking too much and can be taught from day one. I see my sister doing it with her 1 year old. I can't understand why such a request, expectation, whatever you'd like to call it creates so much hostility. I appreciate parents who defend their kids (mine always took the teacher's side) but don't be surprised if you get the evil eye when you lack all sense of courtesy when you're out there. I know that there are some developmental milestones to come (e.g., terrible 2's and 4's or whatever) and it's all about how you respond. Do it now because there are a whole set of social and behavioral issues to follow later that will be much more time consuming all around if some of them aren't addressed earlier. I see these daily and you can't always blame someone else or expect someone else to fix them at that point. God, I sound like an ogre, don't I?!
-
GiGi wrote: God, I sound like an ogre, don't I?!
Actually, GiGi you brought to light a perspective that was lacking from this thread: the teacher's. Very interesting. -
I know it was not about my kids. And frankly, it doesn't matter if it was. I admit to dislike my kids at times too. And everyone else's. I am the Queen of "NO" when it comes to my kids, which is why my oldest said that to me when he was 4. It wasn't personal. I was the parent carrying a screaming child under my arm like a football to remove them from a situation when needed. This inspired some person to ask me why I "let them scream like that". You can't win. My children have always been great in public, and have grown to being angels most of the time - but not because they're scared of me.
But what gives everyone the right to parent-bash? And to start a thread with the sole purpose of parent bashing? How about something constructive to all the parents here who really do care about teaching their children well? One poster said "alot is forgiven with an apology". Another poster said "It's more than an apology". One poster said it was worse seeing the parents "screaming" at the kids than being submissive.
The OP said she felt that in each case it was the fault of the parent. How can one make that sort of snap judgement? Frankly, I really do feel that if kids are that much of a disturbance, aren't you setting yourself up by going to someplace like the Tea Lounge?
And shouldn't people be allowed to run their lives and families in the way they chose - good or bad - without being constantly criticized? Those of us with children don't go around bashing those who chose to remain single or child-free. Only your mother is allowed to do that ;-) -
Anonymous wrote: I know it was not about my kids. And frankly, it doesn't matter if it was. I admit to dislike my kids at times too. And everyone else's. I am the Queen of "NO" when it comes to my kids, which is why my oldest said that to me when he was 4. It wasn't personal. I was the parent carrying a screaming child under my arm like a football to remove them from a situation when needed. This inspired some person to ask me why I "let them scream like that". You can't win. My children have always been great in public, and have grown to being angels most of the time - but not because they're scared of me.
ok, i'll tackle this one and then head to my studio. if you want to have a constructive discussion, let's do it. point by point:
But what gives everyone the right to parent-bash? And to start a thread with the sole purpose of parent bashing? How about something constructive to all the parents here who really do care about teaching their children well? One poster said "alot is forgiven with an apology". Another poster said "It's more than an apology". One poster said it was worse seeing the parents "screaming" at the kids than being submissive.
The OP said she felt that in each case it was the fault of the parent. How can one make that sort of snap judgement? Frankly, I really do feel that if kids are that much of a disturbance, aren't you setting yourself up by going to someplace like the Tea Lounge?
And shouldn't people be allowed to run their lives and families in the way they chose - good or bad - without being constantly criticized? Those of us with children don't go around bashing those who chose to remain single or child-free. Only your mother is allowed to do that ;-)
--if you are the parent you claim to be, the person who asked you why you let your child cry is an asshole.
--parent bashing. because i can. because these parents ruin nice aspects of my life. because i should be able to go out to brunch without being harassed. because i should be able to spend an afternoon in the park without being physically hurt (unless i'm so clumsy i trip...)
--parents who scream at kids. i don't know that we (or least i) was talking about normal everyday parents who get at their wit's end. i think we were referring to the kind of hostile parenting where children get chastised and smacked in public. and this is FAR worse than even a child who kicks you at lunch.
--please tell my how a child running around a restaurant like a banshee, who smashes a lunch to the floor, whose mother says it's the person with the smashed lunch's and that she won't pay for a new one, could be the fault of ANYONE but the parent. explain this to me. is the mother, in this case and the others i've mentioned, lying in a chair in a coma?
i will take this time to remind you that at least legally, it's a parent's financial responsibility to pay for the shit their kids break or the havoc they create. if kids at toys r us stomped on barbies the parents would have to pay.
--why shouldn't my friend be allowed to go to the tea lounge? why has an atmosphere is "crazy kids only" been allowed to grow in our neighborhood? because if the behavior wasn't allowed, each of us could go wherever we pleased. (and if you're a mom with a kid who's hyper, like my brother was, well, too bad. stay home. it sucks ass all around, but it's your job.)
--finally, please tell me what the "child-free" people are doing to bother you. we complaining that your children are kicking us? -
who's going to use "I hate you mommy" as their tag line?
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds