another angry rant about out-of-control children
Comments
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I've seen too many firsthand to want to watch more on YouTube.
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TuckPendleton wrote:
How often is your play or movie "ruined" by a doctor answering her cell phone? Is this really a problem in your life? Really?
If you are a doctor who HAS to have his cell phone on at all times because you are on call that night, guess what? YOU DON'T GET TO GO TO THE MOVIES OR TO A PLAY THAT NIGHT. You made a choice to be a doctor, why do I have to have a play or movie ruined because of it?TuckPendleton wrote:
Or maybe you could say "excuse me" and the person could move the stroller so you could get by? Is that really such an imposition? Does it really ruin your "shopping experience"?
If you have a baby asleep in a stroller, and taking the baby out and folding up the stroller is too much of a pain, but you really want to go into that cute but crowded boutique store, guess what? YOU DON'T GET TO GO INTO THE STORE AND RUIN OTHER PEOPLE'S SHOPPING EXPERIENCE.TuckPendleton wrote:
Yeah, let me guess: you get really annoyed when your bus is delayed because someone in a wheelchair has the nerve to want to get on or off the bus. And you're infuriated when some old person is hobbling across the street while you're in your car waiting to make a turn. :?
I'm sure we could all come up with more examples. -
My mother used to own a white '77 Corolla sedan which she bought new. After a few years of minimal maintenance and trouble-free driving she found herself being approached by strangers on the street who would often ask her if she'd sell it to 'em. It turns out that make and model were very durable and hers was in great condition, hence the frequent offers to buy. She had it for 10 years.
(Perhaps this inoccuous little anecdote will chill us all the hell out and kill this thread once and for all. One can only hope...) -
My mother used to own a white '77 Corolla sedan which she bought new. After a few years of minimal maintenance and trouble-free driving she found herself being approached by strangers on the street who would often ask her if she'd sell it to 'em. It turns out that make and model were very durable and hers was in great condition, hence the frequent offers to buy. She had it for 10 years.
Did she talk on her cell phone while driving it, or try to run down stroller pushing moms on the street? -
Um, I was as well. Whole different attitude today than when I was growing up. The liberal attitude of not spanking Johnny but giving him a time-out or letting them freely express themselves loudly, rudely without reprimanding them is harmful and sure to raise them into arrogant self-centered adults. When I was growing up you respected your parents, other adults and teachers. Who ever heard of teacher abuse years ago. A teacher reprimands a kid today and his parents will have their lawyers at the school. Just look around at rude adults and you know their upbringing. The ones for instance who can't offer a simple thank-you or excuse me if they bump into you or those who think the whole post office wants to hear your loud conversation while we wait what seems like an eternity to get our business taken care of.
laura wrote: [quote=Rose]I'm sure you are all lovely people, but I doubt that any of you were as polite and well-behaved at the age of three as you think you were.
As a quiet, shy little girl growing up in the late 50's-early 60's I assure you I was extremely well-behaved! O:)
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Since I began following this topic, I've been paying extra attention when out and about in my own neck of the woods - a place not very far at all from PS - both geographically or philosophically.
This afternoon, for example, had lunch at Bluemoon, a great Italian restaurant with tin ceiling and exposed brick walls. The next table over was a NYC firefighter with his wife and 6-month-old daughter. When they were done unpacking her from the stroller, the dad stood up, wheeled the stroller to the side aisle and while pointing to it waved at the bus boy. The bus boy took the stroller and hid it under the windowsill at the front of the bar. Issue settled in about 30 seconds with less than 3 words exchanged btwn anyone. Another couple with two kids about 4 and 6 sat in a booth up front. The younger kid could be seen bopping up and down every once and a while on the pleather padded seat. The other kid got up once to press his nose against the glass dessert case - no one was disturbed by any of this the parents seemed totally in control of their personal situation.
Last Wed night my wife and I stopped at one of our favorite haunts, Churchill’s, known around town as "kid/family friendly". Time and again, I am amazed at the relaxed atmosphere as three tables pulled together in the rear with loads of kids ages one through tween proceed to spill, drop and otherwise barely eat much of anything on their plates. But what does happen is that the parents control how their own affect the other dinners. And once they're gone, the wait staff transform that area of the restaurant so fast no one can even imagine that there was a small classroom full of kids their only a few minutes earlier.
When I was growing up in Bklyn, if some father saw me acting inappropriate in public while not accompanied by an adult, you can bet the word would quickly get back to my mom or dad. But no different than if I was in trouble, hurt or in an accident. That was a form of "looking out" for others - a sort of "Courtesy Détente" and something you hoped would be extended to you or your family when/if needed. In the end, its all about setting appropriate expectations in life - for all parties involved: parents, their kids, non parents and all who call their particular neighborhood home. -
In one ten minute walk from the South Slope to Rachel's on 8th St. my roommate and I witnessed:
a group of four young middle schoolers (6th or 7th grade) swearing and yelling constantly c-s----er, m'fer, etc etc to each other. Boys and girls. YELLING these words.
a boy stealing an orange from a fruit stand
two kids deliberately throwing their chip bags on the ground, three feet from a trash can
and then at Rachel's, a group of teenage girls yelling to each other the length of the restaurant and leaving their trash all over the table and the floor.
It was amazing. This was all in about 15 minutes. -
As a child, the only bad thing I ever did in public wasn't even witnessed by anyone other than my mother: once in the grocery store I was being silly and took something off the shelf and put it in my pocket. When I pulled it out to show my mom she got extremely upset because it was stealing (we were still in the store).
As for restaurants, as a kid I never went except on our summer family vacation. And then the only difference between adult and kid behavior was that adults talked about boring stuff, while as a child you sometimes got a special placemat you could color on.
I hate to sound like I grew up in the Victorian era in the British empire or something, but I tell ya, it's a whole 'nother world these days (I'm 49). At least in Park Slope. -
Ah, Sweet Tea and Rose. Crabby natives, indeed.
Since your responses to my post seem to miss the general tenor of this thread, let me try to illuminate the theme for you.
Perhaps you have been extraordinarly lucky and never had to put up with the inconveniences and selfish behavior described in bulk and in detail in this thread and in others.
In which case, consider yourself, well...extraordinarily lucky.
However, I think a fair assessment of this thread (and the posters on this board in general) is that everyone is prepared to deal with selfish behavior occasionally. The world is an imperfect place, people are imperfect, and so it goes.
What we are getting at is that Park Slope parents and their children are not occasionally selfish/rude/inconsiderate, but that they are consistently so. So much in fact that threads like this pop up repeatedly.
Because many, many people have had many, many bad experiences many, many times.
These are not islolated experiences.
This doesn't make us bad people for noticing this. It doesn't make us selfish to have reasonable expectations of people to behave in ways that are fundamentally decent.
In answer to your particular queries, does one parent and a bulky stroller in a small shop ruin my day? No, of course not.
But when multiple parents, at multiple times, choose to behave selfishly, and when that happens in one concentrated neighborhood, it becomes noted. And yes, it takes the shine off an otherwise great neighborhood.
I was attempting to expand my post to look for reasons beyond simply selfish parenting, namely that we live in much less polite and civilizied world, also exemplfied by cell phones in theatres. Sorry to distract you.
And to answer your attempts at character assassination, Rose: while of course I don't know that it's always a doctor answering a cell phone in a theatre, that was merely an example. But yes, I have had so many cell phones go off in movie theatres and at plays that I go less.
And I am never put out by a neighbor in a wheelchair getting on a bus, or an elderly neighbor crossing the street. You know why? Because that the handicapped service on the bus exists for them to use. They need it. That street exists for people young and old to cross.
However, Park Slope does not exist for parents to abdicate their responsibilites, let their children run amok, and consistently negatively affect other peoples' quality of life on a day to day basis.
Again, maybe I'm just extraordinarily unlucky and your blessed, annoyance-free PS existence is the norm. But if you take the time to read this whole thread, I'm sure you'll see that's not the case. -
OK- Cbuckster, Tuck and eggcream--I'm gonna let you take it from here, as I have neither the patience or grace to deal with dum dums like Brooke Lynn. 'Scuse me Miss. Thang? I did NOT advocate physical violence. I, like all sane adults; childless or not; would like to see parents TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their kids bad behavior; and ideally prevent it by instilling DISCIPLINE in them.
Too many p.c., entitled, self-absorbed, upper class parents believe it's ok for their little sweetie to run around knockin crafts/wine/food/etc.. off of tables, and guess what--it makes us mad.
I will reiterate this simple desire: Parents, I don't want a half assed apology from you or your kid. Make them look me in the eye and face up to what they did--you can't overprotect them forever.
Seacrest Out.
sigh. -
my worst brooklyn kids story includes 4-5 boys who must have been under 10. just as we got out of the 7th ave stop on the Q, the boys started walking behind me and my boyfriend for several blocks directing the following at me (after making fun of my curly-curly locks):
"you are gay"
"your hands smell like poop"
"you put your hand in a**holes"
"faggot"
...
and so on.
(for real.)
also, i am very much female.
we were more shocked than upset and laughing like crazy when we got home, but ... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: -
Subject: Park Slope Youngsters
Hi all. I'm a Park Slope resident who lives on Carroll Street. I have to say that there are some very ANNOYING children who live on my block. My fiance and I love kids, but the ones on are block are demon spawn. The parents are even worse. For example, during the warmer months, the parents let the children sprawl all out on the sidewalk and draw w/ chalk and play w/ toys and when people are trying to walk by, the parents & kids give you dirty looks and the kids don't move an inch!!! It is very irritating. The parents let their kids do whatever the hell they want and then give me an attitude when i want to walk up to 5th Ave. on the sidewalk of the block i live on, too!!!!!!!!!!! Park Slope kids are a particular brand of snobbish and spoiled and sometimes, just plain rude. -
Subject: Re: Park Slope Youngsters
eggcream wrote: Um, I was as well. Whole different attitude today than when I was growing up.
I don't know how old you are but if you are under 60 I would be embarrassed to use the "when I was young" speach. I mean wasnt the same thing said about your generation?knik wrote: Hi all. I'm a Park Slope resident who lives on Carroll Street. I have to say that there are some very ANNOYING children who live on my block. My fiance and I love kids, but the ones on are block are demon spawn. The parents are even worse. For example, during the warmer months, the parents let the children sprawl all out on the sidewalk and draw w/ chalk and play w/ toys and when people are trying to walk by, the parents & kids give you dirty looks and the kids don't move an inch!!! ...
Oh the horror! Kids playing and chalk drawing on the sidewalk, oh my god how terrible. Please if you want to live in a place where the fronts of homes are simply used for plantings, mail and cars then move to the suburbs.
This is NYC - Brooklyn to be specific - when I see kids outside drawing on the sidewalk on a nice day, I feel BLESSED - 1. that things have gotten safe enough that people feel free to sit outside and 2. that a new generation of kids get to experience the advantages of urban living (grass is overrated).
I find it almost amusing that on the same board where the majority of the people bemoan Atlantic Yards and the opening of some chain stores as the end of "brooklyn living" and Brooklyn becoming characterless - people find Children running up and down stairs, chalk drawing on the sidewalk, and kite flying in the park to be 'evil'. -
I hope this doesn't sound like a "just-wait-until-you-have-kids" reply, because that's not my intention. But it really is so much easier to say that your children will behave when you're not a parent. I am very lucky that my daughter is very well-behaved in public and if she is tired, too hungry, cranky etc I do not take her to a restaurant. When we go out I make sure to keep crayons, stickers etc in my bag to keep her occupied.
But she can also be a typical toddler too-- pushing limits, throwing tantrums etc and the only thing that gets her back in line is threatening to take away a favorite toy, withholding a treat etc. Now it is really exhausting to have that kind of threatening atmosphere every day (not to mention the fear that giving a cookie so much power will lead to eating issue later on), all day, when your child is going through one of those lovely rebellious phases. Children really are independent little beings and no matter how much you think you can shape them, they'll always throw you for a loop.
I get really pissed off at parents who make no attempt to reel their wild kids in when others are trying to have a peaceful meal. But sometimes I see that same look of surrender in their eyes that I have on a Friday afternoon when I've been caring for 2 kids by myself, 12 hrs a day, all week with no help (not to mention in winter when it is too cold to let them run around outside to blow off some steam). I feel like if I shout one more time or threaten one more time my head will explode. So instead I kick back with a nice glass of wine and a magazine while the rugrats run amok around me (but only in my home!). Just another perspective. -
Subject: Re: Park Slope Youngsters
friendlypitbull wrote: I don't know how old you are but if you are under 60 I would be embarrassed to use the "when I was young" speach. I mean wasnt the same thing said about your generation?
Wait a minute--how does one's age matter in terms of recognizing an out of control child and his/her permissive parents? Should the fact that someone is under 60 preclude them from saying something about it for fear of being percieved as old? C'mon, that's just lame.knik wrote: ...during the warmer months, the parents let the children sprawl all out on the sidewalk and draw w/ chalk and play w/ toys and when people are trying to walk by, the parents & kids give you dirty looks and the kids don't move an inch!!! ...
friendlypitbull wrote: Oh the horror! Kids playing and chalk drawing on the sidewalk, oh my god how terrible. Please if you want to live in a place where the fronts of homes are simply used for plantings, mail and cars then move to the suburbs.
After following this thread since its inception I've come to the conclusion that SOME just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I mean what part of "permissive parents" is it that people don't understand?
This is NYC - Brooklyn to be specific - when I see kids outside drawing on the sidewalk on a nice day, I feel BLESSED - 1. that things have gotten safe enough that people feel free to sit outside and 2. that a new generation of kids get to experience the advantages of urban living (grass is overrated).
I find it almost amusing that on the same board where the majority of the people bemoan Atlantic Yards and the opening of some chain stores as the end of "brooklyn living" and Brooklyn becoming characterless - people find Children running up and down stairs, chalk drawing on the sidewalk, and kite flying in the park to be 'evil'.
FOR THE UPTEENTH TIME,
No, no, no: "kids playing and chalk drawing on the sidewalk" is NOT horrible, terrible or evil. Please! It can be a pleasant thing to experience. BUT when my brother and I did that and people nicely said "Excuse me" trying to get through, my mom or dad would be the first to make sure we let them through. As opposed to giving the passerby a dirty look or making us think that we didn't have to take anyone into consideration but ourselves. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Please! -
What we are getting at is that Park Slope parents and their children are not occasionally selfish/rude/inconsiderate, but that they are consistently so. So much in fact that threads like this pop up repeatedly.
Oh. My. God. I can't believe this post has such legs. 90% of these posts are just ridiculous over-generalizations. In all my time in the Slope I have yet to see a SINGLE instance of a child "out of control." Not one. Nada. Now, I'm sure that a kid goes out of control now and again and throws a scone at Connecticut Muffin while mom chats on her cell, but c'mon, that's part of having kids... not every kid is 100% well-behaved and not every parent can be 100% on-task.
And, sure, there are lots of strollers, but it's hardly difficult to get down the street or walk into a store. And, even if you have to step aside for a double-wide, big deal, who cares?
In short, what you think is annoying is part of city living. If you want your 500 square feet of personal space, may I suggest you buy a Hummer and move to Houston? -
Subject: Re: Park Slope Youngsters
MichaelKeys wrote: [quote=friendlypitbull]I don't know how old you are but if you are under 60 I would be embarrassed to use the "when I was young" speach. I mean wasnt the same thing said about your generation?
Wait a minute--how does one's age matter in terms of recognizing an out of control child and his/her permissive parents? Should the fact that someone is under 60 preclude them from saying something about it for fear of being percieved as old? C'mon, that's just lame.
Michael please read the thread again - ones age doesnt matter, but I would figure that after 2-3 generations of adults saying " kids today are [worse then kids of yesteryear]" people would recongnize it is much less that kids are changing and much more that we [adults] are getting older - I would especially expect that from people who grew up in the 1960's forward (i.e younger than 60) since these were the "kids" who heard how horrible their generation(s) was the most.knik wrote: ...during the warmer months, the parents let the children sprawl all out on the sidewalk and draw w/ chalk and play w/ toys and when people are trying to walk by, the parents & kids give you dirty looks and the kids don't move an inch!!! ...
MichaelKeys wrote: ]After following this thread since its inception I've come to the conclusion that SOME just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I mean what part of "permissive parents" is it that people don't understand?
No but again read the post - b/c the poster wasnt simply complaining about bad parenting, the poster described the kids as the 'demon spawned' and "Annoying" and the only thing the kids were doing was playing and drawing on the sidewalk. Besides give me an f'ing break - sure there are some fat kids around but I havent seen one (or a bunch together) that are so large that you couldnt simply walk around them.
FOR THE UPTEENTH TIME,
No, no, no: "kids playing and chalk drawing on the sidewalk" is NOT horrible, terrible or evil. Please! It can be a pleasant thing to experience. BUT when my brother and I did that and people nicely said "Excuse me" trying to get through, my mom or dad would be the first to make sure we let them through. As opposed to giving the passerby a dirty look or making us think that we didn't have to take anyone into consideration but ourselves. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Please!
As for all these anecdotes of horrible children/parenting - I havent seen them and since it 2007 and everyone has a camera phone or better - VIDEO OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN. -
xueling wrote: But sometimes I see that same look of surrender in their eyes that I have on a Friday afternoon when I've been caring for 2 kids by myself, 12 hrs a day, all week with no help (not to mention in winter when it is too cold to let them run around outside to blow off some steam). I feel like if I shout one more time or threaten one more time my head will explode. So instead I kick back with a nice glass of wine and a magazine while the rugrats run amok around me (but only in my home!). Just another perspective.
I don't think that is a "wait until you have kids" perspective it is just sometimes you don't know what you are talking about until you have actually experienced it. I don't presume to know what my friends going through a divorce are going through--it is presumptuous. For me, having kids was NOT what I expected at all. It was way more work then I thought, way funnier then I thought, more frustrating then I thought, more rewarding then I thought, more claustrophobic then I thought and for me, added another level of meaning to my life. But that being said, I gotta agree, I don't necessarily see out of control kids but I do see parents who don't intervene and correct. I see this at the zoo sometimes when a kid will SHOVE one of my kids out of the way and the parent will just be staring blissfully at their miraculous wonder. I never know what to do in that case--I want to grab the little brat by the ear and drag him to a time out but hey, not my kid.
Well we all have to share the urban space--kids, elderly, rich, poor etc. -
Subject: Re: Park Slope Youngsters
friendlypitbull wrote: As for all these anecdotes of horrible children/parenting - I havent seen them and since it 2007 and everyone has a camera phone or better - VIDEO OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN.
Oh I love it. "I haven't experienced what you have, therefore it can't possibly be true."
That's really annoying.
And I don't have a camera phone (or better). -
laura wrote: [quote=friendlypitbull]As for all these anecdotes of horrible children/parenting - I havent seen them and since it 2007 and everyone has a camera phone or better - VIDEO OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN.
Oh I love it. "I haven't experienced what you have, therefore it can't possibly be true."
That's really annoying.
And I don't have a camera phone (or better).
Yes, it's come to this.
I REALLY hope this thread gets locked. It has run its course and very little understanding has come from it.
(Btw, laura that night you told me to go to bed I had a bout of insomnia that kept me up for 30+ hrs.) -
MichaelKeys wrote: I REALLY hope this thread gets locked. It has run its course and very little understanding has come from it.
Yes, I think it's time to take the battery out of this cranky bunny ...
MichaelKeys wrote: (Btw, laura that night you told me to go to bed I had a bout of insomnia that kept me up for 30+ hrs.)
Yikes. Hope that doesn't happen very often. -
laura wrote: [quote=MichaelKeys](Btw, laura that night you told me to go to bed I had a bout of insomnia that kept me up for 30+ hrs.)
Yikes. Hope that doesn't happen very often.
Once, twice a year maybe. The last time was a few months ago and I had a perfectly good reason. Ah...
This time I didn't.
But after a little more than half a day at work I went home and slept soundly. Which is what should happen to this thread. But permanently. -
Subject: Re: Park Slope Youngsters
friendlypitbull wrote: ...and kite flying in the park to be 'evil'.
i don't find kite flying evil. i find the fact that a mother on her cell phone barely looked up and gave me a mere measly apology when her kid, twice, thwapped me in the face with his kite.
and eighth and prez, you say, "In all my time in the Slope I have yet to see a SINGLE instance of a child "out of control." Not one."... what about the kid who smashed my friend's breakfast with his fist, then the mom who refused to buy her a new bagel? who said it was her fault for leaving the bagel near the edge of the table?
you know something, i made a huge error is naming this post a rant about "out of control" children. really, it should be about parents who let their kids run wild without it occurring to them that this is not okay.
it's not ok to smash my breakfast. it's not ok to get kicked while eating brunch. it's not okay to be thwapped in the head with a kite. not in a nice place here, not at the zoo, not at the park, not at chuck e. cheese.
if you can't, or refuse to, discipline your child for bad behavior--kicking people at brunch is bad behavior, sorry--than you unfortunately shouldn't take your child to places where he/she can display this behavior. i'm sorry if this means you should not leave your house; if that's the case you need to bring your angry child to a psychiatrist and figure out a way to keep your child from kicking people.
KICKING PEOPLE. please, other than a child kicking a "stranger" who tries to abduct them, tell me a situation where it's acceptable for a child to kick an adult. -
Subject: Re: Park Slope Youngsters
friendlypitbull wrote: ...and kite flying in the park to be 'evil'.
It was asked before: how profusely should the mother - and presumably the child, have apologized?
LET IT GO. -
This post started with brooklynpotter and it should end with brooklynpotter:
"you know something, i made a huge error is naming this post a rant about "out of control" children. really, it should be about parents who let their kids run wild without it occurring to them that this is not okay."
AMEN! -
I am a Park Slope parent and I find it really hard to believe that I am less aware of these kinds of events than any nonparent: I am constantly on the watch for my kid causing even a little ripple of irritation.
And, well... frankly I don't buy the original post. Unless you were to define war stories as the kind of story that starts out small and minor, coming from a narrow POV that grows to be something quite different.
I live in PS and I can say with certainty that this whole general scenario simply doesn't exist. There are not children running amok ruining other people's lives.
What you will see is something like a mom going into a coffee shop with two kids to get a cup of coffee that loses control of the situation for a sec--maybe her kid yells something or runs back and forth for a minute. And when that happens what I see more often than not is a room full of people rolling their eyes and acting really annoyed.
To that crowd and the original poster I say this: your war stories are overblown and this neighborhood is not a library zone. You're complaining about kids running around in the Tea Lounge? really? That's like being bitter about the Y smelling like body odor. -
Subject: Re: another angry rant about out-of-control children
brooklynpotter wrote: --working a craft fair before the holiday, placing myself in the corner because i knew my things were breakable, and having children running laps through the room, en masse, while their parents just stood there chatting with their friends.
And just to satisfy my curiosity, this wouldn't be the craft fair that was a fundraiser for a preschool where I saw you in December would it? Because your being bitter about kids running around at a "winter fair" for a preschool would be pretty odd. -
Anonymous wrote: I live in PS and I can say with certainty that this whole general scenario simply doesn't exist. There are not children running amok ruining other people's lives.
so these stories are just made up? -
witch-king wrote: [quote=Anonymous] I live in PS and I can say with certainty that this whole general scenario simply doesn't exist. There are not children running amok ruining other people's lives.
so these stories are just made up?
Didn't you read what the anonymous guest has proclaimed? So it has been written. So it shall be. -
What I am saying is that people like to tell stories, and they get better and better. Why just the other day I had this harrowing encounter with a wicked childless person...
Also read my followup post: if I'm right (and I think that I am) one of the original poster's stories was about her "working a craft fair before the holiday" where "children [ran] laps through the room, en masse, while their parents just stood there chatting with their friends"
If I'm right she was actually at the Children's Winter Fair for a preschool, a fundraising affair where kids make gifts for the holidays and there are some merchants. The event was specifically FOR kids under 5 and was advertised as such. Maybe I'm wrong.
Point being that "Children's Fair" doesn't equal "Craft Fair" and "a kid spilled my Bagel at Tea Lounge" isn't quite the same as "some kid smashed my [elegant] breakfast."
People can't just say or think that they don't like kids and get overly annoyed with them. For whatever reason they usually have to trump things up a bit when they discuss the issue. The loud kids at the restaurant slowly turn to ruthless life destroyers. But, please, feel free to ignore all other points of view on this, narcissistic miopia is a speicalty of a certain subset of my neighborhood's population... but I shouldn't stereotype.
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