The Islamic bodega

Keeping halal is not extremist.
Go to Freddy's for a beer.

1. if every bodega went halal, i would open a liquor store and CLEAN UP, free-market style.

2. i don't think keeping halal is "extreme".

3. i do think that knee-jerk fear of and condescension towards ALL religion is just as harmful to a truly pluralist society as the hatred and intolerance SOME religious groups encourage.

4. i think this is an interesting discussion, even when you don't defend it by attacking other discussions. i'd think it was REALLY interesting to actually KNOW what's going on at the bodega. if you ever do ask them, it would be interesting to me if you would post what they say.

devincf wrote: [quote=sweet tea][quote=devincf]
No, I'm forming a hypothesis - ie, a "reasoned proposal suggesting a possible correlation between multiple phenomena" - about them.

but the whole thing about hypotheses is that you test them -- in this case by asking.

Did you run into the "Yo where's da gymz at yo" thread and tell that dude to learn how to use Google? As I have said, I think there's an actual DISCUSSION to be had about this topic. But I guess I am, as I usually am when I post here, totally fucking wrong.

what? i'm confused by this response. maybe i'm not cool enough to understand how discussions work....:roll:

devincf wrote: Of course it is. Any unreasonable, pointless restriction on diet or dress is extremist. If you didn't touch pork because it was "unclean" but you weren't religious, you'd be considered neurotic at best. Keeping kosher, keeping halal, wearing special religious clothes - these are not acts of rationality. Thus they are extremist.

bigot. bigot. bigooooooooot!!!

NEWSFLASH:

i just dropped by the bodega in question. according to Saal, the guy who runs the place, the lack of beer is because a new permit is astronomically expensive, but might be something they pursue in the future (having, as it were, spent alot already on the renovation). As for the bacon, I saw pork bacon right there in the deli cooler, and he has no idea what youre talking about re: the bacon situation there. They currently serve it and always have.

Case closed! See what a little effort and neighborly interaction can do?

devincf wrote: That's certainly the claim about the alcohol license. Did you see any ham in that cooler?

give it up, man. go by the fucking place yourself and check, ok? at this point, perpetuating this is making you look like a real doofus.

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Devincf, just to throw a capitalist curveball into this discussion, in this thread you objected to "restrictions" on consumer choice based on individual religious choice, but also expressed support for the restriction by the government itself of consumer choice (in your professed lobbying to keep Walmart out of the city). I'm curious as to what your standard is for accepting consumer choice restriction. I assume you wouldn't support the govt banning the sale of all pork on religious grounds. Why should it ban the sale of cheap pork on ideological grounds?

p.s. - sorry about going off topic, but come on, this topic seems to have pretty much exhausted itself, especially with the revelation about the alcohol license.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I don't know escap. I think Wal-Mart is a pretty nasty company with some really awful and unethical business practices.

This from the pbs website. They made a documentary a few years back about Wal-Mart. I think I would trade a little bit of my consumer power to avoid this company at all odds.

If you read below there is nothing to be proud of to be a Wal-Mart consumer or an employee.

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html


Wal-Mart employs more people than any other company in the United States outside of the Federal government, yet the majority of its employees with children live below the poverty line. "Buy American" banners are prominently placed throughout its stores; however, the majority of its goods are made outside the U.S. and often in sweatshops. Critics believe that Wal-Mart opens stores to saturate the marketplace and clear out the competition, then closes the stores and leaves them sitting empty. Freedom of speech issues also come into play. Musicians are at the mercy of Wal-Mart's stringent content rules, forcing many to create "sanitized" versions of their albums specifically for the discount chain.

The sentiment behind Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton's promise of a "better life for all" belies questionable business practices - many that have been challenged by employees, unions, environmentalists, recording artists and human rights organizations.

Wal-Mart employees
Top: Wal-Mart executive
Middle: Wal-Mart associates at work
Bottom: Associates singing the Star Spangled Banner at grand opening
Working for Wal-Mart
Forbes magazine, polling business executives (not employees) has ranked Wal-Mart among the best 100 corporations to work for. Yet the employees on average take home pay of under $250 a week. The salary for full-time employees (called "associates") is $6 to $7.50 an hour for 28-40 hours a week, which is typical in the discount retail industry. This pay scale places employees with families below the poverty line, with the majority of employees' children qualifying for free lunch at school. When closely examined, this amounts to a form of corporate welfare, as the taxpayer subsidizes the low salaries. One-third are part-time employees - limited to less than 28 hours of work per week - and are not eligible for benefits.

The company is staunchly anti-union. New employees are shown videotapes explaining that instead of unionizing, they benefit from the open door policy, allowing them to take their complaints beyond the supervisors to higher management. When the United Food and Commercial Workers tried to organize workers across the country, labor experts were brought in for "coaching sessions" with personnel who support unionization. Employees complained that these were intimidation sessions. Many such complaints are currently on file with the National Labor Relations Board.

Whereas Wal-Mart employees start at the same salary as unionized employees in similar lines of work, they make 25 percent less than their unionized counterparts after two years at the job. The rapid turnover - 70 percent of employees leave within the first year - is attributed to a lack of recognition and inadequate pay, according to a survey Wal-Mart conducted. Yet this can work to the company's advantage, since it is more difficult for unions to organize when there is constant employee turnover.



Wal-Mart's statement on unions:
At Wal-Mart, we respect the individual rights of our associates and encourage them to express their ideas, comments and concerns. Because we believe in maintaining an environment of open communications, we do not believe there is a need for third-party representation.






employee silhouette

The open door policy is supposed to be so that you can complain to higher managers if you have a problem with one of the lower managers. The associates joke sometimes that the open door policy is really the "open your mouth and they'll show you the door policy." For example, this guy who worked in the parking lot at our store, when it got hot in the summer, he wanted to transfer inside and when he used the open door policy, they showed him the door. They fired him.

- from an exclusive interview with a Wal-Mart employee

Wal-Mart is the leading employer of people of color in the United States. More than 125,000 African Americans and more than 74,000 Latinos work at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club store's nationwide. Two Latinos sit on the board of directors along with two women out of 15 board members. Only one woman serves as an executive officer of the company.

Full-time employees are eligible for benefits, but the health insurance package is so expensive (employees pay 35 percent - almost double the national average) that less than half opt to buy it. Another benefit for employees is the option to buy company stock at a discount. Wal-Mart matches 15 percent of the first $1800 in stocks purchased. Yet most workers can't afford to buy the stock. In fact, not one in 50 workers has amassed as much as $50,000 through the stock-ownership pension plan. Voting power for these stocks remains with Wal-Mart management.

Made in the U.S.A?
Despite a well-publicized "Made in the U.S.A." campaign, 85 percent of the stores' items are made overseas, often in Third World sweatshops. In fact, only after Wal-Mart's "Buy American" ad campaign was in full swing did the company become the country's largest importer of Chinese goods in any industry. By taking its orders abroad, Wal-Mart has forced many U.S. manufacturers out of business. The chain was broadly criticized for being the primary distributor of many goods attracting controversy, including Kathie Lee Gifford's clothing line, Disney's Haitian-made pajamas, child-produced clothing from Bangladesh and sweatshop-produced toys and sports gear from Asia. Difficult working conditions also exist in the United States: In 1991, labor inspectors found labels for Wal-Mart brands being made in Manhattan's Chinatown. There, 16 and 17 year-old Chinese immigrants without permits had been working for one month without being paid.



Wal-Mart's statement on sweatshop allegations:
Wal-Mart strives to do business only with factories run legally and ethically. We continue to commit extensive resources to making the Wal-Mart system one of the very best. We require suppliers to ensure that every factory conforms to local workplace laws and that there is no illegal child labor or forced labor. Wal-Mart also works with independent monitoring firms to randomly inspect these factories to help ensure compliance. In fact, we conduct more than 200 factory inspections each week to ensure these facilities are being run legally and ethically.

BUT DID YOU SEE ANY HAM IN THAT COOLER?!