Need advice on training untrainable dog

caseopele · January 2007

My pit Ripley is unlike any dog I've ever had. She doesn't seem to learn anything. She consistently chews up things she's not supposed to, jumps on people, eats everything she can (hence the basket muzzle), and bites my jeans when I'm playing with her. I've tried numerous methods of training her and she's thwarted my every attempt. No matter what I try she thinks I'm playing with her. My mom was over the other day and was playing with her. When Ripley tried to bite her clothes my mom grabbed her muzzle and held it shut. Ripley stopped biting until my mom let go and then resumed biting at her clothes.

She's never shown the slightest bit of aggression to anyone so that's not a problem. She acts exactly like a puppy constantly, she doesn't respond to any reprimands. I tried using the spray bottle on her and she likes it. She actually tries to catch the water with her tongue. I thought Cheech was the most difficult dog I'd had because he was badly abused before I got him. He would pee at the drop of a hat, I couldn't lean over him or put his collar on in the house. He was terrified of everyone yet would rip everything up (including an unopened bag of flour, that was fun to clean up). It took a long time but he is now very comfortable with people. I can even kiss his belly when he's laying down!

She's 3 and a half years old now and can sit, shake, lay down, and jump. She actually learned those all pretty quickly so I had high hopes for her. Anyway, you name it I've probably tried it with Ripley. I've come to think that she's just really dumb, I've caught her pulling needles out of my pincushion, chewing pennies, screws, nails, and various other ridiculous objects. Anyone have any ideas? I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

Pic of Ripley admiring her handiwork (old couch)

idlewild · January 2007

Do what Caesar would do. Shoot it. Or you could watch the Dog Whisperer on NGC.

caseopele · January 2007

I used to watch the Dog Whisperer all the time, I even tried his whole Sssh thing he does. Ripley thought I was playing with her, she always thinks I'm playing. I forgot to add that she's a little actress too. If I step on her foot by accident in the house, nothing. If I do it outside where there are people around, she yelps. Anytime she has an audience she works it. With my dog Cheech I had to play the dominance game. He would challenge me once in a while and I'd have to show him I was the dominant one. Eventually he accepted me as the alpha and things were settled. With Ripley she doesn't even see me as a potential alpha. I could beat her and she would immediately revert back to her bad behavior. I feel like nothing I do is working. Man, are all pits this hard?

idlewild · January 2007

caseopele wrote: ..........I had to play the dominance game. He would challenge me once in a while and I'd have to show him I was the dominant one. Eventually he accepted me as the alpha and things were settled. With Ripley she doesn't even see me as a potential alpha. I could beat her and she would immediately revert back to her bad behavior.....

I picture your PM box being full by mid-morning.

caseopele · January 2007

Oh, I don't beat her! If anyone is abused in this relationship it's me. She has no concept of how big she is and steps all over me when I'm lying in bed. Without fail when I'm on my side Ripley will manage to step on my nipple 9 times out of 10. (TMI, I know, I'm sorry!) Meanwhile I have a double bed so even though there are 2 dogs and me on it there's still plenty of room. She thinks she's a cat or something, she even tries to climb on my lap. 60lbs of dog is a little much.

I just want to make it very clear that I don't beat my animals. Oh, I joke about it and threaten them constantly but they never believe me. Everyone who knows me knows there is no way I could abuse an animal. I tend to let them walk all over me, especially because they're all rescues. I have that whole, "poor baby, your life has been so hard, do anything you want" attitude. Which I know isn't good either!

idlewild · January 2007

I wasn't talking about you beating the dog...

caseopele · January 2007

Oh, then I'm lost...

quijibo · January 2007

my dog was untrainable too

pits are smarter than any other dog i've had in life
that dumbness thing is an act

when young the hormones can be very difficult to control in a pit
it took my girl 'til she was four to mellow out

and when she was a puppy i crate-trained her
-- at that point she had already eaten my eyeglasses and the sofa
and for both our own goods she stayed in the crate while i was at work
and the dogwalker would come by during the day
to walk outside a bit and get a little attention

pits are very focused on picking up human body language
so make sure your body language is very definite/clear as to your displeasure

what worked for us was rewarding the positive behavior
and ignoring the negative
cause what they want is attention

i recommend talking to www.tyrilfrith.com for a little of his expert advice
no i don't gots no financial interest in this. he's just very good

oh. raising a pit teaches one about the value of patience

caseopele · January 2007

Thanks for the advice! A couple people have recommended Tyril Frith to me before but I just don't have the money. I wish I did because I'm not really equipped to handle her. I do think that every dog is different when it comes to training, at least all of my dogs were. The one thing I've noticed with Ripley is that she doesn't like being ignored. She's also very manipulative which I guess makes her smarter than I think.

Having Cheech has been great because he keeps her in line most of the time. He even tattles sometimes when she's doing something she's not supposed to. This morning I pulled the remains of a catnip toy out of her mouth, I tell her no in a firm voice but it does nothing. Sometimes when I'm really frustrated I give her a little smack on top of her head which she barely notices. She's a really sweet dog but very stubborn. You're right about pits teaching the value of patience, that or making you crazy!

quijibo · January 2007

do you have a crate for Ripley?
that's indispensable

if not, put an ad in the classifieds
i got rid of mine a long time ago
i'm sure someone has one to lend out. just ask

whyfi · January 2007

Our Lucy is stubborn as all hell, too - it's almost been a year and we've made some great progress, but we still have a ways to go. She's certainly taught us a thing or two about patience, but she still has more to teach. Stay strong! Stay calm!

Kids (of the human variety) have gotta be easier than this!

caseopele · January 2007

99% of her bad behavior occurs when I'm home. It's like she needs an audience. I have noticed that since we moved the dogs have been alot happier. They play together more and Ripley hasn't been quite as bad. I think having a bigger place has been good for them.

WhyFi, what methods did/do you use with Lucy? Ripley has been, without a doubt, the most challenging dog I've ever "owned"? (I really do believe that my animals own me.)

How would using a crate work with 2 dogs? Would it work for Ripley even though she's 3 and a half? I've always been too much of a softy to use a crate, that's probably why Ripley walks all over me!

whyfi · January 2007

Ripley sounds a lot like Lucy when we got her.

Lucy is a really tough combo and she sounds a lot like Ripley - she's not aggressive, but she is dominant. She's very friendly, but very stubborn. She too likes to play to an audience.

When we first got her, we were hesitant. We'd owned dogs, but never a pitbull (OMG!) and we didn't plan on keeping her - we were simply fostering until we found her a home :roll: so we weren't thinking long-term with her discipline and we weren't as confident as we would have been with say, a lab.

So, she would demand attention. She would bark when we ignored her. She would bark when we put her in her kennel. She would pick up bones on our walks and drop anchor mid-stride to pee in the middle of the walk.

The first breakthrough actually came when I got sick of her shit. I was working at home, she was barking, barking, barking in her kennel. I heatedly walked over, stared her in the eye and yelled at her to "STFU!!!" She stopped immediately and didn't bark in her kennel thereafter. Taking that as a sign that we needed to adopt more of a take-charge attitude with her, we left her on the leash most of the time and corrected her whenever she got out of line.

We used a halti and then a choke chain with her (the halti was great, but she was particularly stubborn and fought it 'til hair started rubbing off her muzzle) giving her light but sharp corrections. We made her walk next to us, not in front of us. She no longer had a choice of when and where to do her business. We worked on her desperate need to get at our cats. Her habit of jumping up on people. Her barking. Growling. Begging/growling for food when we were eating... she's been a lot of work!

...and we're still working. She's one of those give-an-inch, take-a-mile kinda personalities. When we let up, she'll gladly take the reins... don't get me wrong, she's light-years from where she was 12 months ago, but she's got a ways to go.

Again, your girl sounds a lot like ours. My advice would be to firm up on her and try to keep your patience. Take her on long walks, but keep her at your side - she sound like she's got a lot of energy!

My warning would be this - be prepared for people to constantly question your "parenting." Those that don't have dogs don't understand. Those that do think they know better, but their dogs are messes (just the other day, I was walking Lucy and she went on alert [squirrel!!!]. I had to correct her a few times until she snapped out of the hunt mode. As this was happening, we passed a lady with a dog. She had the nerve to ask me, "do you think that really works?" as her dog was lunging and pulling to get to Lucy!!! I was so focused on correcting Lucy that her comment didn't even register until I was half a block away... ) So yeah, be prepared to deal with the looks, the questions, the misunderstandings, but know that it'll all pay off if you're firm and consistent.

apollonia666 · January 2007

I always feel so bad when I go into your store and I want to say hello to Lucy and she gets all excited and misbehaves, WhyFi -- but for what it's worth, I do trust your and Mrs. WhyFi's judgment in being firm with her.

Hope eventually she'll learn that if she calms down she'll get more ear-skritches!

whyfi · January 2007

It happens! She is a sweet and loving dog, but she'd be humping you in a couple minutes flat, without intervention. I'll let her get some affection from people if she'll sit and stay calm, but she tends to be at her worst with an audience. She knows when she can get away with stuff, just like a little kid. I was working last week, customers came in and Lucy decided it was a good time to try and chase Ivy, as I had my back turned. Ivy wasn't havin' any of it and she kicked Lucy's ass. She (Ivy) actually went after Lucy twice, later that day... Ivy knows how to discipline dogs!

caseopele · January 2007

WhyFi, sorry for the delayed reply. I was just diagnosed with a condition that could make me blind so I'm prone to frequent bouts of escapism lately. I really appreciate the advice, Ripley can be quite the handful. One interesting thing about her is that she has lots of energy but is extremely lazy. When we lived on 5th Ave I would take them to the dog run in the playground at night. I actually had to chase her to get her to run around. She was content to eat woodchips or scrounge for food.

I'm totally prepared for people to question my parenting, especially people with out of control little dogs. Alot of them seem to think that because their dog is small and they can pick them up that they don't need any training. Or that it's "cute" when they act aggressive. SIDENOTE: I know not all little dog owners are like this but I've seen enough of them to recognize that it's a problem. Bad dog owners are not limited to a specific size or breed of dog.

Also, I use the word "owner" for lack of a better term. As far as my animals are concerned, they OWN me and allow me to work and provide for them. They're very generous you know, if they feel I don't have enought to do they're kind enough to shred something for me to clean up. It's nice how they think of me and aren't totally selfish all the time.

Again, thanks for the advice! I just have to suck it up and start being tough with them. It's funny how I have no problem being tough with people but if it's furry and got 4 legs I turn into a big mush.

Need advice on training untrainable dog

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