Stroller Derby Anyone?
Comments
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Kensingtonmom, do you have a problem with this thread?
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5923 -
Please split this (useless to begin with) topic or I'm going to make it about cats.
Suggested title: Park Slope MILFs: Fact, Fiction or Frowned Upon Acronym?
Edit: I take it back, this topic wasn't useless to begin with. I did learn that the cause of friction at the Tea Lounge is free WiFi. -
No CILF'ng. Swing that topic to the Pet section please.
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laura wrote: Kensingtonmom, do you have a problem with this thread?
No
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5923 -
I can tell you as a woman (my friends feel the same way) being "rated" by appearance or reduced to whether some stranger wants to f*** me or not is demoralizing and takes away your feeling of power.
Wow - I thought the I was the cranky one here. It is clearly the guys who are making asses out of themselves. The woman has the power to ignore it.
As a woman, and a mom (but not a person of color), I really think you are totally overreacting.
when people stop noticing you as a sexual person is when you DO have a "problem". MILF is in no way a slur.
And by the way, i can run of whole list of DILF. There are plenty -
I'm not much bothered by the MILF term. I do hate feeling like I'm being assessed, rated by body parts and f*ckability etc. when I'm just out walking around minding my own business. I got a lot of that kind of attention when I was younger and I found it so oppressive; it definitely didn't make me feel "powerful." At 40, I've noticed that I've become invisible to a lot of men, and that is just fine.
I find the references here to MILFs to be amusing, usually. But I do understand what KM is saying. And I appreciate the way MichaelKeys addressed her points without being an ass about it.
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Not trying to sound like a frat boy here.
But this is the lowest common denominator for guys, a woman either falls into the LF category or she doesnt.
And be it as it may, this is one of the first things we think about when we see a woman. It not necessarlily something to be proud of but it is engrained into us on a molecular level.
There are of course more flattering terms than MILF. -
kaiserkai wrote: Not trying to sound like a frat boy here.
I do think that is true.
But this is the lowest common denominator for guys, a woman either falls into the LF category or she doesnt.
And be it as it may, this is one of the first things we think about when we see a woman. It not necessarlily something to be proud of but it is engrained into us on a molecular level.
There are of course more flattering terms than MILF.
But I also think we can go beyond biology. Not ignoring sexuality by any means.
But let me put it another way....as humans we prefer our "tribe" or our group. That is the basis of racism--excluding the other. In earlier times, that would mean massacering the other. But we decided that even though that is hardwired into being a group animal, we were going to TRY to do better then that (obviously we aren't succeeding). So can't we go beyond biology? -
KM - I have no idea why you persist in trying to make the point that using the term 'MILF' is akin to racism; I think that point has been throughly debunked - thats not to say that you have no point at all that the term is 'too crude' to say in mixed company. I disagree, since I notice that both Men and Women (here and elsewhere) use the term and variations (DILF for example) fairly regularly. But you have a point behind your opinion on that score.
The reason why I tell you to lighten up - is because while people may refrain from using such crude terminology, I dont think too many people are going to be able to "ignore biology" or even want to "ignore biology" as they walk down the street. - I am sorry but most of us (men and women) when we go about our everyday lives notice who is attractive and who we are attracted too.
Now when you are walking down the street we generally dont have an opportunity to note a persons intellect, sense of humor or other attributes - what we notice is looks. And personally 'people watching' (inc noticing attractive women) is part of what I LIKE about living in an urban enviroment - I am not referring to oogling or saying crude comments or anything like that - but simply noticing someones attractiveness is not sexist in my opinion. (hell why do people wear 'attractive clothes'? It cant be simply to look good to people you already know).
KM would a more gender nuetral term like "eye candy" seem better to you?
BTW Rose I know few women who found catcalls etc... as they walked down the street anyhting but offensive, but I do know quite a few women who are quite depressed about becoming 'invisable' in the way you describe. -
friendlypitbull wrote:
That's kind of sad, that they're quite depressed about it. I can't imagine feeling bad about myself just because strange men I pass on the street don't make kissy noises at me. :?
BTW Rose I know few women who found catcalls etc... as they walked down the street anyhting but offensive, but I do know quite a few women who are quite depressed about becoming 'invisable' in the way you describe. -
Rose wrote: That's kind of sad, that they're quite depressed about it. I can't imagine feeling bad about myself just because strange men I pass on the street don't make kissy noises at me. :?
Please dont misunderstand me - they dont miss being oggled or harrassed (or kissing sounds) rather the fact that they no longer get the extra glance or the 'eye pause' etc...that indicates that someone 'noticed you'.
I actually think it is pretty normal to mourn the passing of one's 'youthful' good looks - Although I wouldnt really know -
friendlypitbull wrote:
Oh, I agree, I'm not going to pretend I'm thrilled about getting older, just that I don't miss getting attention from strangers. And I make a huge distinction between the catcall/kissy noise/"hey baby" and just getting silently checked out. I look at people all the time.
Please dont misunderstand me - they dont miss being oggled or harrassed (or kissing sounds) rather the fact that they no longer get the extra glance or the 'eye pause' etc...that indicates that someone 'noticed you'.
I actually think it is pretty normal to mourn the passing of one's 'youthful' good looks - Although I wouldnt really know -
Subject: Tea Lounge
I am a mother with a two-month son. I have visited Tea Lounge a few times with him and I definitely can relate to aome of the comments of Boosedog. For some women, it seems that motherhood changes everything... for the worst. They feel entitled to display zero courtesy with others.
Motherhood is not carte blanche to do as one pleases. Sadly, too many people still think it does. -
Rose wrote: [quote=friendlypitbull]
Oh, I agree, I'm not going to pretend I'm thrilled about getting older, just that I don't miss getting attention from strangers. And I make a huge distinction between the catcall/kissy noise/"hey baby" and just getting silently checked out. I look at people all the time.
Please dont misunderstand me - they dont miss being oggled or harrassed (or kissing sounds) rather the fact that they no longer get the extra glance or the 'eye pause' etc...that indicates that someone 'noticed you'.
I actually think it is pretty normal to mourn the passing of one's 'youthful' good looks - Although I wouldnt really know
You guys just reminded me of the following:
I was having drinks with a bunch of co-workers recently and one in particular wanted to buy me a drink so she went over to the bar to get me one. When she was taking a bit too long I got up to see what was up. For some reason the younger people around her were getting served while she was waiting--in plain sight of the both male and female bartenders--for a longer time than the traffic at the bar warranted.
I played stupid and asked her about the delay. She sighed, and knowingly said, "You just become invisible after a certain age." Man, that broke my heart.
I mean, she's 50 and apparently doesn't believe in coloring her hair but she is hotter than half the 25 year-olds at work. (We have quite a few very attractive women in our office. And for the record, if I didn't want to have kids I would make an attempt at wooing this awesome lady.) More importantly, she's not "girly": she's a strong, independent, self-reliant, stylish woman who finds it funny that a former tomboy like her gave birth to a "girly" girl. Yet, even this strong woman with a devil-may-care attitude feels the slight pangs of not being noticed much anymore. -
Rose wrote: I find the references here to MILFs to be amusing, usually. But I do understand what KM is saying. And I appreciate the way MichaelKeys addressed her points without being an ass about it.
Thanks, rose. Just trying to keep it civil 'round here. -
the typical wifi user that stays for HOURS taking advantage of the free wireless and the electricity milking that ONE small cup of coffee for a buck fifty...has just as much of a right to be at the tea lounge as the mother who doesn't stay for HOURS but leaves the place in a complete mess with crumbs everywhere and kids running around in smelly diapers tearing the place up while she couldn't give a crap. There are plenty of places in park slope that are not set up as kid-friendly, but have free wireless...there are also places that ARE kid friendly but do NOT have free wireless...you have a choice...so stop bitching and complaining about the tea lounge.
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friendlypitbull wrote: KM - I have no idea why you persist in trying to make the point that using the term 'MILF' is akin to racism; I think that point has been throughly debunked - thats not to say that you have no point at all that the term is 'too crude' to say in mixed company. I disagree, since I notice that both Men and Women (here and elsewhere) use the term and variations (DILF for example) fairly regularly. But you have a point behind your opinion on that score..
It isn't the term MILF as much as it is objectifying another person. I think there is a parallel in that each group has been "oppressed" through hegemony. For women, it always seems to be sex that somehow is used ironically against them (maybe men are threatened by their own desire?). Words can express underlying attitudes and words are used to keep another group down. I know that wasn't the intention, I just think it is kind of frat boy obnoxious and neanderthal. -
many of these park slope mommies look pretty rough and don't seem to care about how they look when they leave the house. i personally wouldn't find it insulting to be considered a milf...that's prety much the same as being considered hot. If you're a mother and you have a problem with the term...than hmmmm you're probably not sexually attractive??
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kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=MichaelKeys]Clearly, the intent of a racist joke featuring the "N" word is not to compliment in any way shape or form a black/African-American person; the whole MILF thing--as crude, crass and Neanderthal-like as it may be--is, in its intent, rooted in the exact opposite: flattery. Misguided, inappropriate, condescending? Perhaps. But to call a black/African-American person a n***** and to refer to an attractive woman as a MILF is SO not the same thing. (As a person of color myself, I can tell you that I'm sure many would bristle at the comparison.) That's where I presume the call to 'lighten up' comes from.
Have to disagree. While I won't presume to know what being called a N****** feels like. I can tell you as a woman (my friends feel the same way) being "rated" by appearance or reduced to whether some stranger wants to f*** me or not is demoralizing and takes away your feeling of power. What does the N word make you feel like? Some men think that we woman like to be bothered when we pass construction sites. Most of the woman I know don't find that attention flattery, it makes us feel angry most of the time. It is intrusive. It is more then condescending--it is objectifying which is what I think the N word would be like. Although I know those guys were joking around and weren't making some big sociological statement with their MILF, I thought I would point out that for some mothers, we don't think it is that funny. I hope my sons don't think they can rate women on whether they are F&^%-able or not. I hope they have more respect and also aren't so presumptuous to think that the feeling could be mutual.
OK. I do understand where you're coming from.
I must mention that it is also a cultural thing: in Latin America--and in predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods here in the city, as well--women are routinely complimented--graciously and otherwise--on the street. Having been raised in the Caribbean, I must admit to have partaken of this custom, although never in a crude or insulting manner, and I've even been thanked quite a few times for my compliments. Of course, I refrain from that sort of thing here because it is not percieved in the same way.
As for the "N" word, being Hispanic, it doesn't apply to me but I loathe its usage, regardless.
(If black/African-American people want to use it--or the allegedly term-of-endearment version "nigga"--amongst themselves, that's their business.) -
[quote="staceyk" If you're a mother and you have a problem with the term...than hmmmm you're probably not sexually attractive??
Oh Please. That is insultingingly infantile. -
I don't mind compliments (and, Michael, I also say 'thanks' when someone compliments me nicely) - I'm much more relaxed about such things than I was in my bristly radical feminist days in the 70s. And frankly I find it flattering to have guys half my age give me a compliment or flirt with me. To each their own, but I think sometimes people can fall into a habit of perceiving everything through a lens of victimization, whether it's sexism or racism.
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you know what is worse than a bad stroller + tot day at the tea lounge?
it is hipster telecommuters camping tables and stringing cords over to power outlets and running their entire editing/creative web design/photography/art/web design/writing gig off one cold cup of coffee and their fully charged cellphone and 20 sq ft of the tea lounge. I'm sorry your apartment is so depressing and your neighbor locked up his previously free wifi .. but that isn't my problem. I want to go in and enjoy a drink and food for 30 minutes, maybe with my well behaved kid, maybe not, and there is nowhere to sit! You probably were there all freaking afternoon!
So, speaking as someone who realizes that using a laptop with all you can eat internet for hours in the tea lounge is a huge *privilege*, next time I go there, i'm going to tell the nearest snotty tot that one of you guys has pokemon running on his/her PC, wind them up and send them over to bang on your keyboard .. -
laura wrote: I don't mind compliments (and, Michael, I also say 'thanks' when someone compliments me nicely) - I'm much more relaxed about such things than I was in my bristly radical feminist days in the 70s. And frankly I find it flattering to have guys half my age give me a compliment or flirt with me. To each their own, but I think sometimes people can fall into a habit of perceiving everything through a lens of victimization, whether it's sexism or racism.
I think all women/people like a compliment. Everyone wants to be seen as attractive. But I guess I don't think being considered f&^%^able or not is really much of a compliment? I mean Hugh Grant was doing it with a transvestite hooker?? (Although some transvestites look better then some women I know) -
Anonymous wrote: you know what is worse than a bad stroller + tot day at the tea lounge?
Actually, I believe most people who whip out lap tops in public spaces (except airline passengers, maybe) do it for attention. They want to be noticed. The free wi-fi is just a perk.
it is hipster telecommuters camping tables and stringing cords over to power outlets and running their entire editing/creative web design/photography/art/web design/writing gig off one cold cup of coffee and their fully charged cellphone and 20 sq ft of the tea lounge. I'm sorry your apartment is so depressing and your neighbor locked up his previously free wifi .. but that isn't my problem. I want to go in and enjoy a drink and food for 30 minutes, maybe with my well behaved kid, maybe not, and there is nowhere to sit! You probably were there all freaking afternoon!
So, speaking as someone who realizes that using a laptop with all you can eat internet for hours in the tea lounge is a huge *privilege*, next time I go there, i'm going to tell the nearest snotty tot that one of you guys has pokemon running on his/her PC, wind them up and send them over to bang on your keyboard .. -
Btw, kensingtonmom, I apologize for my flippant post of this morning. I've recently become the victim of BEDBUGS :shock: :shock: :x :evil: :shock: :shock: and have been a swelling itching mass of sleeplessness and despair.
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kensingtonmom wrote: I think all women/people like a compliment. Everyone wants to be seen as attractive. But I guess I don't think being considered f&^%^able or not is really much of a compliment? I mean Hugh Grant was doing it with a transvestite hooker?? (Although some transvestites look better then some women I know)
I can't help being sympathetic to Mr. Grant on this one. Ms. Hurley strikes me as being on the chilly side. -
kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=friendlypitbull]KM - I have no idea why you persist in trying to make the point that using the term 'MILF' is akin to racism; I think that point has been throughly debunked - thats not to say that you have no point at all that the term is 'too crude' to say in mixed company. I disagree, since I notice that both Men and Women (here and elsewhere) use the term and variations (DILF for example) fairly regularly. But you have a point behind your opinion on that score..
It isn't the term MILF as much as it is objectifying another person. I think there is a parallel in that each group has been "oppressed" through hegemony. For women, it always seems to be sex that somehow is used ironically against them (maybe men are threatened by their own desire?). Words can express underlying attitudes and words are used to keep another group down. I know that wasn't the intention, I just think it is kind of frat boy obnoxious and neanderthal.
Wow. I just had a major flashback to my Women's Studies class, freshman year in college.
I do ever so enjoy trolling the boards beyond my border.
fun thread
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Anonymous wrote: Wow. I just had a major flashback to my Women's Studies class, freshman year in college.
I have to say I had the same reaction. -
There was a thread a while ago on good attention vs. bad attention. Hey, I don't mind a compliment (depending on what it is), I mind the guys who get angry when I don't respond -- I'll never forget the man on 7th Ave who started screaming that he hoped I would die just because I didn't answer when he tried to talk to me. I don't like when men tell me to smile, as if I had some kind of obligation to look cheerful for them. I guess that's what might bother me about "there aren't enough MILFs in Park Slope; those mothers should make more of an effort," as if women have some kind of responsibility to look sexually desirable every time they leave the house.
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laura wrote: Btw, kensingtonmom, I apologize for my flippant post of this morning. I've recently become the victim of BEDBUGS :shock: :shock: :x :evil: :shock: :shock: and have been a swelling itching mass of sleeplessness and despair.
Yikes my sympathies. Why is there this outbreak of bedbugs suddenly? I keep reading about it.
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