EP btwn Franklin and Bedford

Try Tavern on Nostrand.. It's on Nostrand b/w eastern parkway and President. Or Saje - Franklin and Park Place. (It's BYOB)

Subject: So your moving to Crown Heights! (Amalia)

Hey I live Off Eastern Parkway between Franklin and Bedford...we will be neighbors!
I just moved here 4 months ago.
The apartment buliding is nice , neighbors in my buliding are cool.No problems so far.
I really like Crown Heights , I'm an arab , and I don't see much here , mostly Jamacians , East Indians , a little bit of Asians , and again everyone is great!
You might see some boys/men hanging out on the street corners , but they never bother anyone , so its cool .
I like that I live near the Museum , and Prospect Park/Mount Prospect Park , the Botanical Garden , they are all in short walking distance , which is awesome.
Also , Prospect Heights is nearby and Park Slope! I love going into Park Slope ,my husbands family owns a store there so its great that its nearby. =D>

I lived in Crown Heights for over 20 years before going away to college and grad school, moving back to Park Slope 10 years ago, and then buying a brownstone in Bed-Stuy 5 years ago. One thing that few people ever mention amongs gentrifying circles is that these neighborhoods we're talking about are still ghettoes. We focus on the nice parts of them and do our best to ignore the less savory parts; but make no mistake that what we may find charming, others (particularly those living in these neighborhoods and trying to get out) do not see the charm. One thing to keep in mind though is that Crown Heights, unlike Bed-Stuy for example, is a West Indian ghetto...which has a different dynamic than an American ghetto. West Indians are usually less resistant to other races/peoples...they have been living near the Orthodox Jews in CH for decades...so its unlikely that you'll ever see campaigns such as the "keep Bed Stuy Black" movement. West Indian ghettoes also generally preoduce different kinds of crimes. I note they have a greater respect for property (e.g., less graffiti) and a l;ower tendency to engage in petty crimes...but an equal if not greater proclivity to deal drugs and commit violent crimes.

My prediction is that CH will gentrify faster than Bed-Stuy will.

bojolais wrote: "West Indian ghettoes also generally preoduce different kinds of crimes. I note they have a greater respect for property (e.g., less graffiti) and a lower tendency to engage in petty crimes...but an equal if not greater proclivity to deal drugs and commit violent crimes. "

I'd like to see some numbers to back that up.. sounds like a sweeping generalization to me...

I find brooklyn boy's remarks particularly offensive and lacking in sufficient data. I think your comment is steorotyping at it's best. How many West Indians do you know, by the way? Furthermore,since you seem to be an expert on ghettos/violent crimes/and West Indian culture, maybe you should publish a book entitled "Sweeping Generalizations and Other Such Idiosyncrasies".

BTW, thanks for throwing out the bone about "having a greater respect for property.

Yes, why on earth would we let statistics get in the way of anecdotal evidence! And I am afraid my friend this is a debate.. Statistics are rooted in fact. Your personal experience is subjective.

i read this forum every day - i never post, because well - i just don't post...
i'm white my neighbor is west indian, we lend eachother paint when needed and swap advice about what hardware store to go to, bla bla bla. it would be a shame if someone like brooklyn boy didn't come on here anymore. maybe this isn't the time for a debate - maybe it's actually a discussion..

was that actually a negative racist remark (your paraphrase notwithstanding), or was he sharing info about the community to which he belonged? i mean, he did say he was one of those west indians, right? and just to make sure I'm understanding this all correctly, you are a white guy calling a west indian commenting on west indians "racist", right?

Uh, I'm with Guest and Brooklyn Boy on this one (sorry bojolais). But if you've got roots that deep such as B.B., than you can stick your stats you know where....we all know how many crimes DON'T get reported for whatever reasons, and I'll take B.B.'s personal experiences over going to the boys in blue any day. Our lovely police force (and I truly do love and appreciate them.....most of the time) doesn't even live in the community for which it serves. Ask any cop on any corner in this area, and they will tell you they think this area is a shithole, right before they take off and go home to Queens or Staten Island.
Stay Brooklyn Boy. We need you.

QUOTE[I simply wanted to state that if you are buying into those condos in the middle of the block on EP (south), i'd tell you to negotiate down 50% if you can... or not buy there at all. it is simply not worth the money. those units look like rentals, and are a shitty product. they are also being advertised as prospect heights (i totally resent that, as this is squarely in crown heights). Also, the quality of the naberhood does not warrant insane prices like that. the immediate blocks surrounding this property offer very little in terms of good grocery shopping, bars, restaurants etc...even laundry....know what u r going to deal with....it's a hike to get to anything good....one exception tho...dunkin donuts is right on the corner (part of a gas station)...wish you luck.]QUOTE

I totally disagree with you and I don't think you're looking at the big picture. While I agree that the condos are a little overpriced judging by the way they were renovated (by the way, those apts have washer/dryers, so you can scratch off finding a laundry shop), I think it's a smart buy considering that the neighborhood is going to change. It may take a few years, but it is inevitable. And no, there are very few options in terms of grocery shopping, bars, restaurants, etc., but that will start to change over time. I used to live in Clinton Hill, WAY before the neighborhood changed, and I used to go into Manhattan and other areas to get what I needed. It was slightly inconvenient, but it did not screw with my quality of life. This area is different because it's one stop away from Atlantic Center where you can shop at Target and Pathmark, etc. Fresh Direct delivers; I don't use them, but my neighbors do all the time. In addition to the great access to west side and east side trains, you are close to the museum, the botanical gardens, Prospect Park and the Farmer's Market. Did I mention the train station? When I lived in Clinton Hill, I only had a LONG walk to get to the G train and the schedule back then was really bad. If you are a patient person and can overlook some of the negatives (which are not that bad), you will definitely make a good profit if you buy in the area. I suggest acting sooner rather than later because the prices will start to go up.

What I meant to say in my post is that the apts are ok for some people, but I feel like they made them too modern for an apt that is pre-war. They're not totally bad, they're just not for me, but some people may think differently. There are other coops to consider and more will pop up once landlords start getting renters out and create coops or condos in their buildings. As for the neighborhood...I don't think anyone was focusing on this neighborhood for the last five years compared to other neighborhoods (e.g., Bed Stuy. I think Crown Heights is so much nicer and convenient), but that's about to change. I've been here for a year and a half and I see some subtle changes and believe it will only get better. As many of you know, that guy who owns the 99 cent store is closing down to build the condos and there's the rumor (I don't know how true it is) that a Starbucks is going on the block too. I'm not staying it's going to happen overnight, but I think with all the changes happening in Brooklyn, it's going to happen whether it's in 3, 5 or 10 years. If you plan to be in NY for a while then I suggest buying. If this is a stepping stone for you and you don't plan to be in the area, then it's not right for you. Like I said, I lived in Clinton Hill for 10 years before it became what it is today. If you don't have the patience, it's not worth it.