Whole Foods petition by Park Slope Neighbors
I'm on their mailing list . . . and thought the Green Roof stuff was particularly interesting . . .
Park Slope Neighbors wrote:http://www.parkslopeneighbors.org/wf_pet.htm
Dear Park Slope Neighbor,
1) Park Slope Neighbors launches Whole Foods campaign - sign our
petition
As many of you know, Whole Foods Market is coming to the neighborhood. And that's a good thing: Whole Foods has garnered much acclaim for selling and promoting organic and natural products, for its exemplary employment practices, and for its overall good corporate citizenship. The new store, which will be built at 3rd Avenue and 3rd Street, will create several hundred local jobs, and add to Brooklyn's grocery-shopping choices.
But there are some problems with Whole Foods' design plans. They intend to build 420 parking spaces, an excessive amount for an urban neighborhood, especially one in which only about 40% of households own cars. Oversupply of parking encourages people to drive rather than use mass transit or other more environmentally friendly modes of transportation, and more cars means more traffic in Park Slope and surrounding neighborhoods, which are already seeing a major upsurge in traffic from rapid development.
Whole Foods also plans to locate a large number of those parking spaces on the store's rooftop. Such large, hard surfaces contribute to run-off, which is already a significant problem in the Gowanus Basin. The canal is in the early stages of environmental recovery, and a large parking surface will harm rather than help that turnaround.
In addition, Whole Foods lacks a good transportation-management plan, which could make it easier for customers to access the store by mass transit, bicycle, or on foot. The company could take several easy steps to promote alternatives to driving.
So we've launched a petition drive asking Whole Foods to address these issues. Please sign the petition by clicking here, or by visiting http://www.parkslopeneighbors.org. Our petition asks Whole Foods to do three things:
* Eliminate at least one-third of the parking. Oversupply of parking encourages driving at the expense of better transit options, and promotes road congestion. 420 spaces are at least 100 more than what are needed to fully serve customer demand.
* Replace rooftop parking with a green roof, solar panels, or both. A green roof will reduce run-off, lower energy costs and promote a healthy environment. Solar panels will supply a significant portion of the store's energy needs and reduce harmful emissions.
* Implement a comprehensive transportation-management plan, including jitney service, bus stops, bike parking, Pedicabs and fee-based parking.
By comparison, the new Fairway Market in Red Hook, which is nearly as large as the planned Whole Foods, and which is about a mile from the nearest subway station, has just a 300-car parking lot, which is typically only two-thirds full even during peak times. And Whole Foods is implementing a green roof on a planned store in Madison, Wisconsin, and has several locations with roof-mounted solar panels, including its Edgewater, New Jersey store. So we're not asking for anything new or unique.
Please encourage your friends and neighbors to sign the petition. If you're interested in circulating a hard-copy petition, please let me know and I'll send you a PDF version, which will also soon be available for download on our petition page. Let me know, too, if you'd be interested in hitting the streets with some fellow Park Slope Neighbors to collect signatures.
We'll report back to you soon on our progress, and will continue to update our web site with relevant information.
Comments
-
while i am all for mass transit, i find that because of the location that whole foods has decided on, it will be necessary for many people to drive to this location. the problem is...for most of us in park slope...this is going to be too far a walk from up near 7th avenue to do my grocery shopping (even those closer to 5th probably would rather stop at the whole foods in manhattan on their way home rather than walk down to 3rd and 3rd). had whole foods considered ACTUALLY putting it in an urban locale, I would agree with you, but this is in no mans land where driving will sadly be the most convenient way of getting there.
-
I do not live in Park Slope, so I will be driving to the Whole Foods location in Brooklyn. I walk to my local supermarket, but driving would be a given to go to Whole Foods. I fully support the construction of the parking lot. If I can't find a parking spot, I will not bother shopping there.
-
Subject: good petition, but not much chance. :-(
This is a worthy cause for petition, but I don't think that Whole Foods is going to comply. I used to work for a development firm that worked with similiar client such as Whole Foods, and I can tell you that careful calculations are done by the developer to determine parking spaces using economic and geographical data. Whole Foods wants to be accessible to as much of Brooklyn as possible, and as the largest borough, I am sure that as hard as it is to believe, their parking is probably severely underweight for the demand. Whole Foods is a MUCH bigger draw than fairway, from an economic standpoint. -
belzjm wrote: while i am all for mass transit, i find that because of the location that whole foods has decided on, it will be necessary for many people to drive to this location. the problem is...for most of us in park slope...this is going to be too far a walk from up near 7th avenue to do my grocery shopping (even those closer to 5th probably would rather stop at the whole foods in manhattan on their way home rather than walk down to 3rd and 3rd). had whole foods considered ACTUALLY putting it in an urban locale, I would agree with you, but this is in no mans land where driving will sadly be the most convenient way of getting there.
I agree with you. Public transportation is not a realistic option for most people, for this site.
Also, I take the subway or bus most of the time, even though I have a car, because I find driving and parking in Park Slope so painful. But for grocery shopping, I need my car (or delivery). I shop for four humans and five pets -- there is no way I'm getting the weekly groceries home on the bus! -
this is exactly what Zipcars are for
-
Given the location - eliminating parking for the purpose of encouraging mass transit use will not reduce the number of car trips to WF but rather simply cause a spill over of people parking on the nearby streets, and circiling endlessly waiting for spots to open - just like what happens at Costco in Sunset Park. This will result in more traffic, more pollution and lower quality of life for nearby residents then if they provide the approriate parking from the beginning.
I certainly think that they can encourage less private car trips by providing cab stands, providing free delivery to nearby neighborhoods, maybe a jittney from the subway and by trying to get better bus stops/routes nearby. But at the end of the day, the store is very far from the subway and is designed to sell alot of items that arent conducive to long pedestrian, bike or even mass transit trips and therefore private auto trips will be a major component of the store and limiting parking on site will be counterproductive. -
By comparison, the new Fairway Market in Red Hook, which is nearly as large as the planned Whole Foods, and which is about a mile from the nearest subway station, has just a 300-car parking lot, which is typically only two-thirds full even during peak times.
I fiind that hard to belieive. Whenever I got to Fairway at peak time I can never find a spot.
Can someone explain this "run-off" thing? I don't understand what's bad about having parking spaces on the roof? Isn't this better? Can't there be a green roof on top of the parking spaces?
Is this just a case of an activist group trying desparately hard to find something to protest about? -
willregistersoon wrote:
I agree and I also see that as a result there is traffic and congestion as people jockey for street spots as well as try to 'create' spots wherever they can, including quite a few 'permit holders' using sidewalks and similar open areas.
I fiind that hard to belieive. Whenever I got to Fairway at peak time I can never find a spot. -
willregistersoon wrote: Is this just a case of an activist group trying desparately hard to find something to protest about?
:roll:
I sure don't think so.
I appreciate people trying to figure out good things for our community and *do* something instead of just bitching about the results once it's a done deal.
-
pitu wrote: [quote=willregistersoon]Is this just a case of an activist group trying desparately hard to find something to protest about?
:roll:
I sure don't think so.
I appreciate people trying to figure out good things for our community and *do* something instead of just bitching about the results once it's a done deal.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just trying to find what the good is that they're fighting for here. I'd like to understand this issue of run-off and how it relates to roof-top parking. What else is there? -
I just read the petition. They wrote:
"420 spaces are at least 100 more than what are needed to fully serve customer demand."
How do the figure that? As "frank lloyd wrong" wrote above, these companies do very lengthy, indepth studies to calculate these things. How does this group just assume that the number is wrong? Also, there is already a bus that runs right down 3rd ave. What more can WF do? Build a subway? -
It's a supermarket-people need to drive to it! Do people really think someone is going to go to Whole Foods via subway (which, considering it's location will be very difficult indeed) and, do what with their bags and bags of groceries? haul them all home on the subway or bus? Come on!
-
willregistersoon wrote: I just read the petition. They wrote:
The people circulating the petition have no idea what they are talking about. They are pulling numbers out of the air. The "300-car parking lot, which is typically only two-thirds full even during peak times" sentence alone demonstrates how little knowledge they have. I never go to supermarkets at peak times, and I still find the Fairway parking lot full.
"420 spaces are at least 100 more than what are needed to fully serve customer demand."
How do the figure that? As "frank lloyd wrong" wrote above, these companies do very lengthy, indepth studies to calculate these things. How does this group just assume that the number is wrong? Also, there is already a bus that runs right down 3rd ave. What more can WF do? Build a subway?
These armchair urban planner shouldn't quit their day jobs. -
if whole foods is committed to the preservation of the environment, smart development, etc. and seems to be a company that prides itself on these things, i personally think that they should have selected a more appropriate site for their store. i don't know available sites well enough to suggest an alternative (nor does it matter at this point) but most whole foods stores i have been to are in a densely packed, urban environment where lots of people are able to walk to/from the store. so to answer the question...what more can WF do...well nothing now...but i think they made an error in their site selection. i'm sure they will do well and i'm sure a ton of people will go, but it will be more of a commuter store. those that live in the surrounding areas will benefit less from this store than those that live farther away in brooklyn, which to me seems rather silly. especially given that i'd guess that those that live in carroll gardens, park slope, etc. would be those most interested in shopping at whole foods.
-
It seems people on the Park Slope list do not want outsiders coming to Whole Foods. Seriously, they want people to take buses?
-
Anonymous wrote: It seems people on the Park Slope list do not want outsiders coming to Whole Foods.
I think you're deliberately missing the point. Also, 3rd Ave. isn't exactly Park Slope. The petition is consistent with other positions that Park Slope Neighbors has taken -- in an urban environment, people should be encouraged to walk and take public transportation, rather than drive; and businesses should be designed accordingly. Which I normally agree with, but I don't think it's realistic in this context. It's not reasonable to expect that most people are going to haul their groceries home from 3rd Avenue on the bus. -
Even assuming the petition is right about the amount of parking needed, at this site or Fairway:
(1) They argue that the parking lot should be smaller because 100 fewer spaces would still be plenty for everyone who wants to drive there
(2) They argue that the parking lot should be smaller to "encourage" people to use mass transit
Well, which is it? If there will still be plenty of parking after the reduction, how does that "encourage" anyone to do anything different?
Clearly the petitioners really want to shrink the lot enough so that a lot of customers will not be able to find spaces there, but they don't have the stones to come right out and say it. -
Rose wrote: [quote=Anonymous]It seems people on the Park Slope list do not want outsiders coming to Whole Foods.
I think you're deliberately missing the point. Also, 3rd Ave. isn't exactly Park Slope. The petition is consistent with other positions that Park Slope Neighbors has taken -- in an urban environment, people should be encouraged to walk and take public transportation, rather than drive; and businesses should be designed accordingly. Which I normally agree with, but I don't think it's realistic in this context. It's not reasonable to expect that most people are going to haul their groceries home from 3rd Avenue on the bus.
Agreed. I haven't had a car in 9 years, and I'm a huge advocate of mass transit and local shopping. But the entire business model of this particular store in this particular location is clearly built around access by cars. It's not in a convenient location within a neighborhood (at least not until "Gowanus" fully comes into its own) with a lot of foot traffic. It's between large affluent neighborhoods along a major transportation artery. The plan all along was for people from surrounding neighborhoods and other parts of Brooklyn to access the store by car. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but this store is going to be successful because of the ease of access by car, and they're unlikely to sabotage that because of a petition. I think that the best thing they can do for the surrounding neighborhoods is offer delivery, and possibly jitney service to major nearby access points (maybe Smith+9th, 5th+9th, 7th+9th, GAP, and 4th+Union or something) like the Harlem Fairway does (or used to anyway) to the UWS. -
Does anyone know how many parking spaces Fairway has? I've been there a million times, but I've never counted.
-
They have the lot directly adjacent to the store and then there is lot that is adjacent to the old train lot - if I had to guess it has to be at least 200
-
This seems like the stupidest petitions I've seen in a while. The number of parking spaces is dictated by building code. Drainage (run-off) is dictated by building code. Facility type (supermarket) and floor plan (square-footage) are the controlling factors. Its not guess work, its math. Whole Foods has no choice but to put a certain number of parking spots. Street parking, foot traffic, subway are all factors taken into account. Buildings like this are usually restricted by the parking they have to provide. Reducing the number of spots would actually increase the size of the building.
-
It's threads like these that make Park Slope an easy target for mockery.
-
easy Target, easy Whole Foods, easy Wal-Mart, then who knows what else? :roll:
-
if whole foods is smart. they should provide free bus from nearest train stations to their location.
-
I would like to see WF's offer a delivery service to the surrounding neighborhoods. I could walk down from 7th ave (why not, it's a long walk, but i can do it, after all sometimes I walk to Smith St) if they could deliver it home. But, I'm unaware of WF's offering this service anywhere.
The jitney/bus idea stopping at central locations would be even better. While it's a great idea, I don't think they would even consider it. I'm not aware of any grocery stores in the transportation biz. Hauling people around and accounting for where they get on and off...well, you see my point.
If anyone knows of ANY grocery store offering either of these services speak up. Well, regardless, I think we petition for anything it should be for a delivery service (free
). -
Also, people who take some sort of bus to the store are not going to be spending as much as people who come with their cars and load up. Don't think it would be worth it for WF.
-
Anonymous wrote: I would like to see WF's offer a delivery service to the surrounding neighborhoods. I could walk down from 7th ave (why not, it's a long walk, but i can do it, after all sometimes I walk to Smith St) if they could deliver it home. But, I'm unaware of WF's offering this service anywhere.
Like I said above, the Harlem Fairway used to offer a jitney to the UWS, although I'm not sure if they still do. This seems like a comparable situation.
The jitney/bus idea stopping at central locations would be even better. While it's a great idea, I don't think they would even consider it. I'm not aware of any grocery stores in the transportation biz. Hauling people around and accounting for where they get on and off...well, you see my point.
If anyone knows of ANY grocery store offering either of these services speak up. Well, regardless, I think we petition for anything it should be for a delivery service (free ). -
Signed and forwarded to all my Brooklyn pals!
-
Who made this a sticky? What a ridicolous petition.
-
This whole thing is ridiculous. Whole Foods is a big box store. They aren't unionized and will pay their workers less than the McDonald's down the block on 4th avenue. Who fucking cares if they are "green". money you spend there does NOT stay in the neighborhood.
don't you entitled PSers have anything better to do with your money?
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds