Moving on Out
Recent posts picked up by Gawker have seriously made me want to pack up my Fifth Avenue apartment and move across Flatbush to the diverse pastures of Fort Greene. From nannies “stealing†plastic strollers, delivery men puking/shitting in hallways (because, really, only a Latino delivery man would do something like that – not your neighbor’s incontinent 2 year-old), and – break out your fire-hoses – BLACK people hanging out at your exclusive hipster bars, I’m fed up.
What I love about Fort Greene that Park Slope lacks is its diversity. And not just in black/white terms, but a genuine appreciation for OTHER types of people. Young. Old. Newcomers and old-timers. Parents, couples and single professionals. Rich and middle-income.
Moreover, I actually feel like I live in Brooklyn strolling around Fort Greene, while walking around my own neighborhood makes me increasingly feel like I simply do not belong.
That’s right, Park Slopers, I’m a BLACK girl. And I hang out at Gorilla, shop at the Co-Op and probably listen to the same bands you do. But I’ll happily lump myself in with whatever element it is that is making Park Slope any less idyllic than the posters mentioned above strive for it to be. That’s it. I’m taking my black ass elsewhere.
All I ask is please – PLEASE – leave Fort Greene alone.
What I love about Fort Greene that Park Slope lacks is its diversity. And not just in black/white terms, but a genuine appreciation for OTHER types of people. Young. Old. Newcomers and old-timers. Parents, couples and single professionals. Rich and middle-income.
Moreover, I actually feel like I live in Brooklyn strolling around Fort Greene, while walking around my own neighborhood makes me increasingly feel like I simply do not belong.
That’s right, Park Slopers, I’m a BLACK girl. And I hang out at Gorilla, shop at the Co-Op and probably listen to the same bands you do. But I’ll happily lump myself in with whatever element it is that is making Park Slope any less idyllic than the posters mentioned above strive for it to be. That’s it. I’m taking my black ass elsewhere.
All I ask is please – PLEASE – leave Fort Greene alone.
Comments
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good luck and godspeed!
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Welcome to the neighborhood and please don't forget to check in at the Ft. Greene Acceptance League on arrival. As you know, all Park Slopers are required to undergo a thorough deprogramming before settling in.
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baby strollers and corner shootings don't exactly go together that well, which is just fine with me.i do enjoy walking down to the slope as a tourist, though, just to see the latest in bourgeois fashions on the stony-faced moms who are furious they couldn't get a babysitter in time to be able to skip away to the tents at bryant park and maybe compare their husbands' net worth over a quick drink with their friends.all that, plus you can actually get a decent burrito at la taqueria.
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don't kid yourself-fort greene is quickly moving along the same lines as park slope. i have lived here for more than a decade and i can tell you that the diversity is dwindling, in my opinion. this used to be the best nabe in all of new york...but these days, i wonder...
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Anonymous wrote: don't kid yourself-fort greene is quickly moving along the same lines as park slope. i have lived here for more than a decade and i can tell you that the diversity is dwindling, in my opinion. this used to be the best nabe in all of new york...but these days, i wonder...
true, true... my apt. flirts with CH more than fort greene, so i'm a little deeper in.the great thing about living here is that diversity is not merely a matter of race, but also one of economics, and that's seriously, inexorably being squashed. -
Welcome to the hood, Guest114. I lived in Park Slope for 10 years and slowly but surely, it changed from lesbians and Italians to 'my husbands bonus is more than your husband's bonus'. So, while anon 4:59 says that the Greene is moving along the same lines as the Slope, I don't think it's getting there as quickly or as prevelantly.
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thirtythreesixty wrote: I lived in Park Slope for 10 years and slowly but surely, it changed from lesbians and Italians to 'my husbands bonus is more than your husband's bonus'.
Here's a shocker for ya: the above groups plus a bunch of wage slaves of all colors and ages, old-school Puerto Ricans, brownstone owners, pretentious hipsters, professionals of all stripes, and many more are STILL HERE. Park Slope, despite what some say to the contrary, is as diverse as its reputation. Just one glance at those getting on/off the subway during rush hour is ample proof. Let alone, the people you come across wandering around the 'hood. We've got good and bad but as a non-hipster, day-job-working, struggling artist, and person of color who LOVES the neighborhood and wouldn't mind raising a family here, I will vouch for it. -
I think the problem is with euphemistic use of the word "diversity". According to the euphemistic use, racially diverse means "has black people" and economically diverse means "has poor people". Both usages belie the real meaning of the word, which implies a true mixture. Thus, even though Fort Greene was more uniformly poor 20 years ago and now has genuine economic diversity, the above post bemoans the loss of diversity. It's really just a semantic difference.
I'm sure Park Slope is still quite diverse, perhaps more so than ever, but in the worldview of many, the arrival of such evildoers as investment bankers and corporate lawyers is logically equated with an instant vanishing of diversity. You could have a neighborhood with 100 ethnic groups and incomes across the spectrum, but if you drop a couple plaid wearing frat boys who work at JP Morgan into the mix, the whole effect is ruined. So if diversity means "not having investment bankers", then I agree that FG is losing its diversity as well.
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The difference in Ft Greene: we talk to each other.
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Widget wrote: The difference in Ft Greene: we talk to each other.
that's great, and i mean that sincerely. but just what are you implying? i live in the slope, and i can honestly say i know about 3/4 of the people on my block on a first name basis. and that's just my block. so what's your point? -
Widget wrote: The difference in Ft Greene: we talk to each other.
So you haven't yet developed a complex system of communication using psionics and pheromones coupled with the latest in empathy-boosting pharmaceuticals that activate the dormant pineal gland?
Talking. How... quaint. -
Wait 'til Ratner Yards come along and you need a passport chip implanted in your skull to allow you to cross 'hoods without getting tasered by a robocop.
More seriously, I'm not trying to turn this into another AY debate, but this beast is going to make crossing the Atlantic a Columbian miracle. -
So if diversity means "not having investment bankers", then I agree that FG is losing its diversity as well.
I work in i-banking; it's my fault. :-( -
As mentioned earlier, Ft. Greene is rapidly becoming Park Slope. Whether your definition diversity is ethnic or socioeconomic, the neighborhood has changed radically in the past few years. The gentrification process seems to have hit critical mass and increased its intensity. The neighborhood is no longer deemed "risky" and the floodgates have opened. While the limited supply of housing has helped to slow the process a little it has exacerbated the appreciation of real estate compounding the problem of socioeconomic diversity.
Personally, I just want people who are open-minded, comfortable, and appreciative of a multi-ethnic, socioeconomically diverse environment. If you clutch your purse a little tighter every time you see a Black man in a hoodie or you don't socialize with anyone outside of your socioeconomic and/or ethnic circle you are probably not exactly what we need in Ft. Greene.
To the initial poster, you probably missed the boat in Ft. Greene. I suggest Clinton Hill if you really want diversity. Move quick though... If you're not there by the end of 2007 you should go to Bed Stuy. -
BklynTransplant wrote:
That's OK--I think if we come to an arrangement where all the i-bankers line up and get flogged on a daily basis by us unemployed "freelancers" that loll around cafes today, clearly just leaving comments on myspace to their other unemployed friends while taking up valuable space (and, mind you, morning starts around 11, which will already seriously eat into my sleeping schedule), then it'll be all right.So if diversity means "not having investment bankers", then I agree that FG is losing its diversity as well.
I work in i-banking; it's my fault. :-(
But on a serious note, and back to escap's point, I wasn't using diversity in the "euphemistic" sense. Dropping a few i-bankers around actually increases diversity, if you think about it. The problem comes if the vast majority of people who end up being able to afford to live in a certain neighborhood (or nearly a whole island--see Manhattan) work in financial services, real estate, have J.D.'s, or are getting their rent subsidized by their parents who work in the above fields.
I think some of the points we're trying to make can't be traced back to micro issues-- individual people all of a sudden deciding they want to live/shop/play in one particular neighborhood; changes in the city, etc. are actually due to more macro economic factors, and as players in that field we have limited autonomy, even if we think we're total free agents. -
This whole thread is weird.
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Nomdeplume, I actually wasn't commenting on your use of the word, but rather anon's use. Specifically, this quote:
don't kid yourself-fort greene is quickly moving along the same lines as park slope. i have lived here for more than a decade and i can tell you that the diversity is dwindling, in my opinion. this used to be the best nabe in all of new york...but these days, i wonder...
I've been in FG since 1975, and I can tell you that the nabe is far more racially and economically diverse today than it was back then, and far more than 10 years ago. But by diverse, I mean it has a wider variety of races and classes, whereas I think it's clear that anon's comment is referring more to the increase in overall wealth and the influx of white yuppies. I can tell you that in 1985 you saw an Asian person about once a year, if that. The nabe was never homogeneous during my lifetime, but there was a much larger African American majority than there is now. I don't have the data at my fingertips, but my firsthand impression just from looking around me is that there are many more colors of the rainbow walking around than I used to see. Judgments aside, in the Webster definition of the word, this represents an increase in diversity.
In fact, the original poster of this thread admitted that when she uses the word diversity, she actually means tolerance--an attitude rather than a demographic. -
are you kidding-it's soo very over for fort greene and clinton hill, honey. that boat passed you by a long time ago. anyone who knows anything is moving over to grand/greene/lexington/classon/quincy/franklin etc. you've got about a year before that's over, too....
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?? I have no idea what you're talking about. But this is the first time someone's called me "honey" on this board. :-s
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anon wrote: are you kidding-it's soo very over for fort greene and clinton hill, honey. that boat passed you by a long time ago. anyone who knows anything is moving over to grand/greene/lexington/classon/quincy/franklin etc. you've got about a year before that's over, too....
this whole country 'is over'
I say you move to Sadr City. That's where it's at -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=anon]are you kidding-it's soo very over for fort greene and clinton hill, honey. that boat passed you by a long time ago. anyone who knows anything is moving over to grand/greene/lexington/classon/quincy/franklin etc. you've got about a year before that's over, too....
this whole country 'is over'
I say you move to Sadr City. That's where it's atSadr City's got super-cheap rents, plus they have an amazing "performance art" scene going on there--sorta like post-war Japanese action art, except this time it's with improvised explosives and human body parts!! I'm thinking of opening a gallery on upper Thawra St.--lower Thawra is so over these days. I saw a couple Sunnis walking around on Monday and thought, "Well, there goes the neighborhood!" -
Nomdeplume wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=anon]are you kidding-it's soo very over for fort greene and clinton hill, honey. that boat passed you by a long time ago. anyone who knows anything is moving over to grand/greene/lexington/classon/quincy/franklin etc. you've got about a year before that's over, too....
this whole country 'is over'
I say you move to Sadr City. That's where it's atSadr City's got super-cheap rents, plus they have an amazing "performance art" scene going on there--sorta like post-war Japanese action art, except this time it's with improvised explosives and human body parts!! I'm thinking of opening a gallery on upper Thawra St.--lower Thawra is so over these days. I saw a couple Sunnis walking around on Monday and thought, "Well, there goes the neighborhood!"
hahahahaha.
war is funny.
so is gentrification backlash. -
Some people need a new perspective of what diverse is. I grew up in a suburban community where EVERYONE was white, just about all the dads worked in an office in New York City, the moms either did not work out of the house, or they were school teachers. An Asian person was a novelty and a black person was a household employee. There were no gay people, poor people, hipsters, Jews (especially black hats!), political activists, community organizers, or general malcontents. Just about any neighborhood in Brooklyn is going to be more diverse then this. I am not saying that we can't bemoan the perceived loss of diversity in a particular community. However, I do believe it is a bit of the cliché about the old days being so much better. I'm just saying that the argument about which neighborhood is more or less diverse when to me, they are all so diverse.
Thanks for indulging my thoughts. Peace. -
I don't think people are saying the old days were better... They are saying the old days were different and the changing population of the community has changed the vibe (for the better or for the worse depending on your perspective). This has altered the neighborhood's value proposition for some. Basically it's all dependent on your perspective. Its sounds like Greenwich, CT would be diverse to you. I know at least 3 Black people who live there and aren't servants. They finally let Jews in about 20 years ago. ;-)
I'm happy hear you escaped whatever suburban hell you came from. I guess I'd be serving you pancakes since all Black people were domestics there... I'm sure you're aware of this but just to clarify for those also coming from Whitebread, USA... "Black hats!" are Hasidics. The largest groups here in NY are Lubavitch and Satmar. -
escap wrote: I think the problem is with euphemistic use of the word "diversity". According to the euphemistic use, racially diverse means "has black people" and economically diverse means "has poor people". Both usages belie the real meaning of the word, which implies a true mixture. Thus, even though Fort Greene was more uniformly poor 20 years ago and now has genuine economic diversity, the above post bemoans the loss of diversity. It's really just a semantic difference.
Well, you sure aren't going to run into much diversity if you hang out at the food coop or Gorrilla (whatever that is).
I'm sure Park Slope is still quite diverse, perhaps more so than ever, but in the worldview of many, the arrival of such evildoers as investment bankers and corporate lawyers is logically equated with an instant vanishing of diversity. You could have a neighborhood with 100 ethnic groups and incomes across the spectrum, but if you drop a couple plaid wearing frat boys who work at JP Morgan into the mix, the whole effect is ruined. So if diversity means "not having investment bankers", then I agree that FG is losing its diversity as well. -
Actually, the Coop is as diverse as the subway...everybody likes good food.
(but don't be distracted by that. please, carry on.) -
pitu wrote: Actually, the Coop is as diverse as the subway...everybody likes good food.
wow. even i know that, and i'm not even a member! i'm just not sure where some of these FG/CH/BS folks are getting their data from. hmmm :-k
(but don't be distracted by that. please, carry on.) -
shishkab wrote: [quote=pitu]Actually, the Coop is as diverse as the subway...everybody likes good food.
wow. even i know that, and i'm not even a member! i'm just not sure where some of these FG/CH/BS folks are getting their data from. hmmm :-k
(but don't be distracted by that. please, carry on.)
girl, don't go starting some neighborhood war -- that was an anonymous guest poster starting that sh*t -
right, let me attempt to sum up this whole thread:
Ft. Greene is better than Park Slope, except when it's worse.
Ft. Greene is diverse, except when it isn't.
The suburbs are homogenous, except when they aren't.
The neighborhood was both better and worse in the old days simultaneously.
There is more diversity in this neighborhood now, except when there's less.
...Um. Did I leave anything out? -
...Um. Did I leave anything out?
Just the semantics of "diverse", "better", "worse", "when, "not" and "is".
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