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Child Hit Killed by SUV in Park Slope - Page 2 — Brooklynian

Child Hit Killed by SUV in Park Slope

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  • homeowner wrote: ... turned a corner and the combination of the height of the car and the angle of the turn did not allow him to see someone in the crosswalk, well that is not considered reckless, it is legally an accident.
    So he is basically not seeing where he is going? ( I am asking I never sat in a Hummer).
    I dont see that as an excuse.
    If I was jogging along 3rd avenue and would run down a 4 year old who would be fatally wounded by the fall, I wouldnt get away with saying "I didnt see him"
    People need to be held accountable for what they do, living in remorse the rest of his life doesnt help the family who just lost a loved one.
  • steve wrote: [quote=theoryofpractice]It's true. It's ruled an accident. The SUV driver got a ticket for failing to yield, but nothing for KILLING.
    I'm just curious what you think he should get? I have no idea what the ticket will cost him, maybe some community service and a fine. It's a pretty small amount.

    The guy sounds like he is remorseful, he was crying at the scene according to the DN piece. It sounds like it was an accident and there was no mention of DUI or speeding or anything. Assuming it was just an accident, having to live with it is going to be pretty harsh if he has a conscience.

    Should he got to Jail? For how long? What if he loses his job as a result and his life goes down the toilet. <snip> It's a horrible thing, but what if it was just an accident? Do we punish accidents harshly?

    I honestly don't get the distinction between 1) accidentally killing someone while driving drunk or high, 2) accidentally killing someone while drag-racing down a residential street, and 3) accidentally killing someone while driving recklessly, without paying attention, and careening through crosswalks where pedestrians have the right of way. You seem to feel that the first two would merit punishment, and the third should be punished only by the driver's remorse. Why? What's the difference? I see people making insane, rubber-burning, screeching U-turns all the time on 7th Ave, right near PS 321. If they kill someone, but aren't driving drunk, should they only get a ticket for a U-turn?

    I've thought for years that if I wanted to kill someone with impunity, the best way to do it would be in broad daylight. I could wait across the street for them to enter the crosswalk and gun it, mow them down, and get nothing but a ticket for running a red light. Actually, if they were crossing against the light, I might not get a ticket at all.
  • kaiserkai wrote: [quote=homeowner]... turned a corner and the combination of the height of the car and the angle of the turn did not allow him to see someone in the crosswalk, well that is not considered reckless, it is legally an accident.
    So he is basically not seeing where he is going? ( I am asking I never sat in a Hummer).
    I dont see that as an excuse.
    If I was jogging along 3rd avenue and would run down a 4 year old who would be fatally wounded by the fall, I wouldnt get away with saying "I didnt see him"
    People need to be held accountable for what they do, living in remorse the rest of his life doesnt help the family who just lost a loved one.

    Its not a matter of not seeing where you are going. The hummer is so high, that literally, you can't see objects that are shorter than a certain height along side of the vehicle. Don't know if you've ever sat in a truck (think 18-wheeler) or say a u-haul, but its a similar perspective.

    As for "getting away with it" just because he's not criminally liable, doesn't mean that the family can't come after him in a civil suit.
  • Yeah the sad, pathetic fact is that this probably wouldn't have happened had the driver been driving a normal f-ing car! I'm sorry but you make a choice to drive a ridiculous, idiotic monster truck around town - and whoops, it turns out you can't actually see little people on the streets when you drive it!! Guess what? You're responsible!!! I don't give two craps if the guy is remorseful or not - bottom line is a 4 year-old lost his life because this loser decided he had to drive his stupid giant toy truck.
  • Slopehead wrote: Yeah the sad, pathetic fact is that this probably wouldn't have happened had the driver been driving a normal f-ing car! I'm sorry but you make a choice to drive a ridiculous, idiotic monster truck around town - and whoops, it turns out you can't actually see little people on the streets when you drive it!! Guess what? You're responsible!!! I don't give two craps if the guy is remorseful or not - bottom line is a 4 year-old lost his life because this loser decided he had to drive his stupid giant toy truck.
    I hope he finds his way to this thread and reads it.
  • if you've got a problem with the law, you should contact your council person and get the ball rolling on getting the law change. homeowner stated the law correctly. look at it this way - if you get into a fender bender (average, normal fender bender - no alcohol, drugs, big macs or cell phone use involved) and the person in the other car hits their head on the steering wheel, and you were at fault in the fender bender, do you really think you should be arrested for assaulting that person?

    personally, I'm with homeowner and Idlewild on this one - the law needs to change with respect to who is driving and whether or not they know what they're doing. I drove an SUV once for a weekend and it was terrifying. I couldn't see anything and made my friend roll down her window to check on things like pedestrians, cars in my multiple blind spots, etc.
  • homeowner wrote: As for "getting away with it" just because he's not criminally liable, doesn't mean that the family can't come after him in a civil suit.
    you can bet on that.
  • Apparently you have to kill somone and be drunk in order to be charged. Transportation Alternatives has been working to change the laws.

    http://www.transalt.org/press/media/2003/031108dailynews.html
  • Subject: Fat Louis G

    Have to put in my 2 cents about Uncle Louis G Guy. He especially seems to hang around at the 5th Ave/Union St. location, and I was truly amazed that the cops let him park his Fat-F-ck Caddy in front of a hydrant on 5th, in front of the Gym there. He seems to be in wid da po-lice somehow. It's disgusting...he's disgusting. Go to Haagen Dazs on 7th.
  • Subject: Tragic story

    I went a bit off topic with the Uncle Louis G remark. Fact is, this is truly tragic. SUVs, esp. the king-sized kind, are dangerous. I know how it feels to have one bearing down on you as you attempt to cross the street. Same thing when a friggin Tahoe is up my but as I'm attempting to negotiate the byzantine turns of the Jackie R. Parkway. I think there's something about being so up, off the ground where a measly subcompact seems like a toy that can be steamrolled over. The height factor and the 400 HP V-8 packed into a Hummer or Escalade do something to a ddriver's psyche. BTW, notice how most SUV drivers seem to look like Uncle Louis G. Guess when you're that bloated...
  • Don't pedestrians ALWAYS have right of way?

    I cannot imagine the victims' families' pain.

    It's sad that innocent children and teens living in pedestrian-friendly cities must suffer from monster vehicle madness.
  • I think one of the most dangerous pedestrian crossings is at Bartel Pritchard Square (Circle) at 15th St. No matter how many (or how big the) signs, people fly through that intersection with no regard for pedestrians.

    I know that there have been petitions to put a light/stop sign there.

    Does anybody know what the proper avenue of escalation/complaint is to get something like that done.

    The whole focus on the iPod in this story is ridiculous. Let's blame the victim for crossing the street IN a crosswalk and having the right of way......
  • ^yep, that crossing is dangerous. Somehow the timing of the lights on PPW vs. 15th St./8th Avenue encourages people to try and make up time by barrelling onto 15th Street as fast possible. It sucks.
  • Not only that, but they make the right turn onto 15th from the middle lane, even though there are arrows painted on the street making it clear that you are supposed to turn right only from the right lane. I can't tell you how many times I've been about to make that turn from the right lane and been cut off by someone turning right from the middle lane.

    The DOT repainted the crosswalk and added a sign about yielding to pedestrians, but I don't think it's made a bit of difference in how drivers behave at that corner.
  • Exactly, Rose. People do not know how to follow the lanes through the circle and make all kinds of crazy turns.

    I've been known to point at the signs and yell at cars like a crazy lady when somebody doesn't yield to me in the crosswalk.
  • I feel really sure that sooner or later, someone making their illegal turn from the middle lane will be in such a hurry to cut off the person who is legally turning from the right lane that they will never notice the pedestrian in the crosswalk. Maybe once someone dies, the DOT will get around to figuring out how to make that crosswalk safe. But more likely the driver will just get a ticket because it was an "accident."
  • I don't see the need for these big, global warming obnoxious SUVs which have been proven over and over again NOT to be safe. They don't maneuvar as quickly as small cars and when they do have an accident there is a higher incidence of fatalities (in the car or person they hit)

    My friend was killed two summers ago when her Subaru was slammed by an Escalade. She had no chance because of the weight differential between the two cars. She had two children and she died bleeding alone in a ditch. I am sure the Escalade driver feels terrible but I am sure he is also still driving a big SUV home to his family every night.

    Curious as to why not a vehicular manslaughter charge?
  • Rose wrote: Not only that, but they make the right turn onto 15th from the middle lane, even though there are arrows painted on the street making it clear that you are supposed to turn right only from the right lane. I can't tell you how many times I've been about to make that turn from the right lane and been cut off by someone turning right from the middle lane.

    The DOT repainted the crosswalk and added a sign about yielding to pedestrians, but I don't think it's made a bit of difference in how drivers behave at that corner.
    The best was when they put up those big plastic pegs a few years back to "protect" the sidewalk by forcing drivers to make a slightly wider turn onto 15th. Of course they were mowed down within a week. Since replaced, not sure how the new set is doing.

    SUVs are ridiculous. I wouldn't be seen in one if I could avoid it.

    Arbitrary exception: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-Jeep-Wagoneer-42K-original-miles-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ320083038971QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6284QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
  • i lived on PPW and 16th street a little while back. i know that intersection well.

    we/the neighborhood were able to make noise to the local politicos
    to have a speed bump placed there so cars would need to slow down before turning the corner onto 15th

    but even that speed bump is gone now
  • kensingtonmom wrote: Curious as to why not a vehicular manslaughter charge?
    Because you need to have an inital finding of criminal negligence plus additional factors in order to be able to charge someone with vehicular manslaughter.

    Here are the sections of the penal code.

    125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.
    A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with
    criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.
    Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.

    S 125.12 Vehicular manslaughter in the second degree.
    A person is guilty of vehicular manslaughter in the second degree when
    he:
    (1) commits the crime of criminally negligent homicide as defined in
    section 125.10, and either
    (2) causes the death of such other person by operation of a vehicle in
    violation of subdivision two, three or four of section eleven hundred
    ninety-two of the vehicle and traffic law or by operation of a vessel or
    public vessel in violation of paragraph (b), (c), (d) or (e) of
    subdivision two of section forty-nine-a of the navigation law, or
    (3) causes the death of such other person by operation of a motor
    vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than eighteen
    thousand pounds which contains flammable gas, radioactive materials or
    explosives in violation of subdivision one of section eleven hundred
    ninety-two of the vehicle and traffic law, and such flammable gas,
    radioactive materials or explosives is the cause of such death, by
    operation of a snowmobile in violation of paragraph (b), (c) or (d) of
    subdivision one of section 25.24 of the parks, recreation and historic
    preservation law or by operation of an all terrain vehicle as defined in
    paragraph (a) of subdivision one of section twenty-two hundred
    eighty-one of the vehicle and traffic law in violation of subdivision
    two, three, or four of section eleven hundred ninety-two of the vehicle
    and traffic law.
    Vehicular manslaughter in the second degree is a class D felony.

    S 125.13 Vehicular manslaughter in the first degree.
    A person is guilty of vehicular manslaughter in the first degree when
    he:
    (1) commits the crime of vehicular manslaughter in the second degree
    as defined in section 125.12, and
    (2) commits such crime while knowing or having reason to know that:
    (a) his license or his privilege of operating a motor vehicle in another
    state or his privilege of obtaining a license to operate a motor vehicle
    in another state is suspended or revoked and such suspension or
    revocation is based upon a conviction in such other state for an offense
    which would, if committed in this state, constitute a violation of any
    of the provisions of section eleven hundred ninety-two of the vehicle
    and traffic law; or (b) his license or his privilege of operating a
    motor vehicle in the state or his privilege of obtaining a license
    issued by the commissioner of motor vehicles is suspended or revoked and
    such suspension or revocation is based upon either a refusal to submit
    to a chemical test pursuant to section eleven hundred ninety-four of the
    vehicle and traffic law or following a conviction for a violation of any
    of the provisions of section eleven hundred ninety-two of the vehicle
    and traffic law.
    Vehicular manslaughter in the first degree is a class C felony.
  • Subject: Plan Urged Safety Measures for Intersection Where Boy Died

    Plan Urged Safety Measures for Intersection Where Boy Died

    http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/15/plan-urged-safety-measures-for-intersection-where-boy-died/

    The May 2003 final report of the Downtown Brooklyn Traffic Calming Project recommended pedestrian safety measures designed specifically to prevent the kind of collision that killed a four-year-old boy in the Gowanus section of Brooklyn on Tuesday afternoon....
  • If the accident is based upon driver not knowing a pedestrian is nearby the victim's family could sue the manufacturer for creating an unsafe vehicle. They could also sue the government for not adequately testing the safety of the vehicle. The driver of the vehicle could also make such a suit if he suffers from remorse.
  • Remi_CH wrote: If the accident is based upon driver not knowing a pedestrian is nearby the victim's family could sue the manufacturer for creating an unsafe vehicle. They could also sue the government for not adequately testing the safety of the vehicle. The driver of the vehicle could also make such a suit if he suffers from remorse.
    There are instances where that is true but there is no way that a driver and/or pedestrian can sue a manufacturer for making an "unsafe" car based on the driver not knowing a pedestrian is nearby. If the car was brand new, right out of the dealership and the first time he used the brakes it did not brake then you can sue.

    What this family can do is sue the driver of the car, but even then if it was ruled an accident they might not recover. The family does have a claim against the City since there has been a study done, it was found to be unsafe which means that the City had prior knowledge of the dangerous condition.

    My heart goes out to this family and to the poor aunt who survived.

    If AY goes through this strip will only become more of a death trap for pedestrians.
  • http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/02/19/dot-pledged-pedestrian-safety-fixes-for-third-avenue-by-2006/

    DOT Pledged Ped Safety Fixes by 2006 on Deadly Third Ave

    New York City's Department of Transportation failed to follow through on a 2004 pledge to build potentially life-saving pedestrian safety improvements along the Third Avenue corridor where a 4-year-old boy was run over and killed last Tuesday....

    The pedestrian safety recommendations were never implemented despite a March 19, 2004 announcement by DOT Commissioner Iris Weinshall that DOT would make an "immediate review" of the Third Avenue corridor and accelerate "$4 million in funding for capital improvements associated with the Downtown Brooklyn Traffic Calming... from Fiscal Year 2009 to Fiscal Year 2006." These funds, according to the commissioner's statement would "enable DOT to install median extensions, neckdowns and other traffic-calming initiatives." Fiscal Year 2006 ended on June 30....
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