Clinton between Dekalb and Myrtle

anonymous · February 2007

I am considering buying a place on Clinton Ave. I am looking at several one Bedrooms in Clinton Hill Co-ops (list prices range 325K-370K) or a small one bedroom in a 9-unit co-op (list price 349K). Compared to other areas these prices seem quite reasonable, I love Dekalb Ave, the architecture of the area, the proximity to Fort Green Park etc. I also have several friends in the area. I know I love being the area when I visit (which is often), but I don't live there. Sometimes when you visit a place it seems great, but living there is a different story.

I am concerned about the potential resale value of the apartments in the large co-op complex and think I might do better in 2-5 years with the smaller place in the 9 unit co-op. But it seems to me that in the next 5 years, the neighborhood --including the big co-ops--will only get better. The push by the co-ops to increase its owner occupancy rates seems to be working. But I worry I am just seeing what I (or my aggressive broker) want me to see. What are your thoughts about the co-ops, safety in that area, potential for growth and improvement etc. (For example, I was just on Clinton Ave between Dekalb and Myrtle the night of the big snow and the roads and sidewalks were not cleared. How are services like that, generally on that street? Garbage, cable access, Fresh Direct delivery, Cab services etc. Do people have trouble with all of that or is this area far enough along now that all of those things are in place and functioning well?).

Lots of questions, but I'd appreciate your feedback.

Thanks!
(P.S. If all this sounds uninformed, please for give my naivete)

boygabriel · February 2007

Subject: Re: Clinton between Dekalb and Myrtle

Xenobia wrote: What are your thoughts about the co-ops, safety in that area, potential for growth and improvement etc.

I don't know about co-ops specifically, but I've been in the neighborhood about 2 years and I see it continuing to grow and become more middle-class friendly (for lack of a less-offensive term). Higher quality restaurants and bars, for example. Aside from Ft. Greene's great subway access, I see Clinton Hill developing into a very similar neighborhood, provided you don't live next to the projects.

Garbage, cable access, Fresh Direct delivery, Cab services etc. Do people have trouble with all of that or is this area far enough along now that all of those things are in place and functioning well?).

I live a few blocks over on Hall Street and I don't have any problems with any of that. We get Fresh Direct. There are three decent car services I use. You can occasionally even get lucky with a yellow cab on Myrtle. Manhattan cabs have no problems taking me home (most of them are familiar with Myrtle Ave). Garbage pick up is regular (twice a week). Cable access seems fine, although we have Directv for tv. We use earthlink for internet.

guvna · February 2007

I bought in the Clinton Hil apts on that block last year. Prices have gone up by 15-60k, depending on what the prior owner did to the place, and whether the particular apartment has a great view, etc. What will happen to the market in the years to come is anyone's guess, but you can see that more new buildings are on the way in the area, and new businesses too. I like to think prices will only increase, but time will tell.

I like the Clinton Hill Apt buildings, although the elevators could be nicer. The hallways above the lobby-level are terribly drab though! Dim lighting (probably energy savers though) and standard blue doors and trim. The laundry rooms could be nicer too, but the machines are good and in working order. What we love about the coops is our actual apartment. We fell in love with it at the open house. The views are great, sunsets, fireworks, etc. Lots of light too.

We get Fresh Direct deliveries in the building regularly. The coop has Time Warner for cable. The coop maintenance staff does a good job clearing snow/ice all around the building walkways and sidewalks, taking the garbage out and mopping/cleaning inside the building. Landscaping is not fancy, but neat regardless. I see cabs waiting for people every morning, so I assume cab service is not a problem.

Safety in the area seems okay, but I read the blotter in the local papers and know that people are still being robbed/burgled from time to time. That's NY I'm afraid. Keep your wits about you.

I hope you find this info helpful.

anonymous · February 2007

I moved here into the Clinton Hill co-ops in 2000. I have really liked it so far. The co-op is spending a lot of money in improving the courtyard, the facing of the building, and the landscaping. However, maintenance has also gone up from 525 to about 630 or so.
I bought a renovated unit for 96,500 at that time, and the comparable ones are selling for over 300,000 so there seems to be an irrational appreciation in price, like with the rest of New York real estate.
Freshdirect delivers, as well as ACME (pet store.....cat litter is heavy) and I have seen some sort of laundry delivery service van, but have never used it.
The porters in this building do a great job keeping things clean, its some of the people who live here who let their dogs poop in the yard and leave it, or simply throw the poop in a baggy out their window (this is happening a lot less often, but it has left a scar on my brain) that can make the building a little less outstanding than it could be.
All in all, very happy here, just wish I'd held out for a 2 bedroom. BTW, who is showing you apartments? There are a couple of different firms that fix up the vacated rental units to be sold to owners. I got mine through Time Equities.

anonymous · February 2007

Subject: Clinton Hill Coops

We bought in the Clinton Hill Coops in 2004 right before the prices sky rocketed. It is good value for the money, even at today's prices. The coop is spending good money on upgrading infrastructure and yes, the elevators are less than glamerour but all in all, it's a great place to live. I'm glad there is a push to get the owner occupancy rate up - a lot of the renters are less than respectiful of the buildings and the house rules. The seem to have a big chip on their shoulders and often act like this is the Walt Whitman/Ingersoll Houses further down Myrtle - I for one will be glad to see this element gone.

piratesofwaverly · February 2007

Xen,

We also live in the Clinton Hill co-ops and I would largely agree with everything you're reading here. We absolutely love it and it's getting even better (not just the co-ops, but the whole nabe) at a pretty fast clip. We've lived here about 2 years, and have family in the coop that's been here for 8.

Re: CH co-ops- I agree that the common areas aren't so great, but the apartments themselves are. In fact, I challenge you to find a better deal in Brooklyn. We couldn't.

I think the prices are slightly lower than comparable coops because the owner/occ. rate is held down by the large number of rent stabilized renters still around from the co-op conversion in the 1980s. I hate to sound coldly pragmatic, but I see only upside for the investor to this - the rate will continue to steadily climb and will provide some pop to prices and also to common area improvements as more of the maintenance bill is paid by residents. Anyway, the rate is why this particular coop is a bit cheaper than others, and that value gap is closing as the rate climbs.

We also bought directly from the sponsor, Time Equities, who generally sells their inventory at the low end of the price range (also, no board approval required and they often throw in new appliances). They have an ad in the print edition of the Sunday Times every week - try checking them out without your broker - you might find a sweet deal.

We considered a smaller co-op as well, but decided against it. One reason was the risk associated with sharing the maintenance with a smaller number of people. In your case, one owner in the 9 units gets seriously ill or loses their job or whatever and your maintenance just went up 11%. Now, I understand this is less of a risk in a strong market, but still, all things being equal, I'd pick the larger one for better diversification. Also, as one of the largest private land owners in Brooklyn, our coop has more political muscle than most.

Re: immediate vicinity. Blink and Myrtle or Dekalb has a new cafe/bar/ shop/restaurant. Car service is great around here (myrtle car is reasonably priced and will show up in less time than it takes to hang up your phone and walk downstairs), yellow cabs have no problem taking you home from Manhattan. While the trains are a 10 minute walk (G excepted), the distance is made up for by the multitude of lines. Lots 'o buses, too.

I'm looking forward to better local organic food, bakery, fish and cheese options, but I expect all that to come soon enough (you'd be amazed as what's arrived already in the short time since we did), and the farmer's market at FG park is one of the better ones around.

Safety: You've probably already read about how this area used to be quite rough during crack's heyday (back when Myrtle ave was called Murder ave), but crime is now down something like 80% since then. Neither I nor my wife think twice about walking around alone at night or taking the train home late or whatever. I do read about crime in the police blotter, but good luck finding a neighborhood in NY where you don't. I'd say it's like anywhere else - keep your wits about you as you would anywhere else in the city and you'll be fine.

Re: The future: I think the ultimate validation of the neighborhood as a good investment are the various luxury condos being built on/near Myrtle, on the Bed-Stuy side of Clinton Ave. I like the idea that these developers and their bankers are betting a lot more money than you or I on the idea that this immediate area is going to continue in the right direction. Coupled with the fact that the places you're looking at on Clinton Ave are closer to the trains (and therefore more desireablly located) and it's a pretty easy call.

My real concern about the future of Brooklyn is all the big development going on - - I don't want to live in a construction site. Luckily, AY is far enough away from this part of Clinton Ave so that the construction won't be disruptive (unless you own a car, in which case you're going to be screwed for parking w/i 3 years), and most of our nabe is protected with landmarking, so I think our views and quiet are safer than most.

All of this is just to say that this is a fantastic nabe now, and will get even better over the next few years. We chose Ch Co-ops over one of the smaller ones around here and couldn't be happier. Go for it!!!!

Clinton between Dekalb and Myrtle

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