advice on purchase
Im looking to buy a condo (two b/r) and has a budget of 600-700k. I hardly know the area since Im living abroad right now but will move to work in midtown (Times Square) soon. Ive been advised to look at Prospect Park, Park Slope etc. But in my shoes, where would you look, all things considered (investment, neighbourhoods,etc). Is this an absurd question? Please help anyway.
Comments
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Subject: me again
How safe is it to live "on the Park" -
It's nearly impossible to recommend a neighborhood to someone I know almost nothing about. Have you considered subletting a place for a few months while you explore different options? Personally I would check Craigslist for some sublets in the Park Slope area and then start visiting brokers.
As for safety of living on the park, there has been some anecdotal evidence that the blocks surrounding the park may be slightly more appealing to thieves since the park affords an easy getaway.
Hope this helps! -
I'm with slopehead on this one.
Live here first for a short time and see if you like it.
For your budget you should find a nice place that you like in this area, but you need to make sure you like the area first.
Personall i'd rather move out a lil more and buy a whole house for that money but thats me. -
another recommendation to sublet a place in the area and see what neighborhood fits your lifestyle
--plus you're more likely to find a good deal once physically here, versus strictly via craigslist -
kaiserkai wrote: Personall i'd rather move out a lil more and buy a whole house for that money but thats me.
Houses for $600K? Where? Sign me up!
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Anonymous wrote: [quote=kaiserkai]Personall i'd rather move out a lil more and buy a whole house for that money but thats me.
Houses for $600K? Where? Sign me up!
Kensington and Windsor Terrace ACROSS the expressway. Lots of houses for sale in the $600k range. Not much to look at outside but many are beautiful inside with big yards. -
sorry newkid...i'll apologize for everyone previous for the lack of helpful responses. since your question was about a 2 bedroom in park slope for 600-700, i can tell you that you would have quite a few nice choices. park slope is a beautiful neighborhood, a very safe one and although there have been a few incidents near the park, there have been quite isolated incidents and i wouldn't let that deter you from looking at something there, although you might have a difficult time finding something around your price ON the park. it is a wonderful resource to have nearby though.
if you are pretty sure you would like to be in park slope and definitely want to buy, you should be able to find a 2 bedroom in a pre war co-op...i would concentrate your search between flatbush avenue and 15th streets and between 4th avenue and prospect park west. take a look around at the corcoran.com website, craigslist.com, berkeley heights real estate, brown harris stevens website, brooklyn properties website to give you an idea of what you can get for the kind of money you'd like to spend. being in the north part of park slope will give you very easy access to the Q train which will get you to times square in under 30 minutes. you would also be near the 2/3 train. the farther south in park slope you go (also very nice) you will be closer to a train (the F) that is not nearly as fast to your workplace.
hope that helps a little. -
Newkid -
You should check out this blog http://www.onehansonplace.com/
The author has lots of sales prices as well as new developments, etc.
I personally like Prospect Heights a little more than Park Slope only because I am closer to the Park, Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, the Brooklyn Museum, etc. -
thanks for such wonderful advice, esp to Belzjm & stacey. One other question. Ive been looking only at condos but someone pointed out the possibililty of co-ops. Im a foreigner and wonder if its worth the hassle. Also, investment wise, which is better?
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Basically condo is a unit that you own and can "almost" do as you please with it (i.e., renovations, sublets, etc.). You pay a monthly maintenance fee on a condo in addition to your mortgage payment.
A co-op is where a corporation owns the units and you own a portion of the shares in the corporation (depending on the size of your unit). Here you have a board who dictates what can and cannot be done. You also pay a monthly maintenance fee in addition to the mortgage payment.
Although I only have a working knowledge of real estate I think a condo is a better investment. -
Again personal opinion.
Coops are good if you have the extra cash and want to make an investment or buy it for your kids.
If you are scraping by to make your payments you "could" be royally screwed with a co-op, if the board decides you need a new elevator or floors you will be hit with the bill if you want it or not.
In a condo its a bit more in your control. -
As a recent condo purchaser, I agree that they tend to be better investments. But remember, a coop board not only has control over what YOU do, but also what your NEIGHBORS do - which may not be such a bad thing depending on who your neighbors are.
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If co-ops are tougher to sell, their prices would not go up as much as condos would. Am I right? Then how might that be a better investment? I notice that some of the co-ops have very high mainenance fees too. I wonder how much control owners have on that? Is there also a "sinking fund" which can help pay for major works.
Another question. I see a lot of pre-war buildings for sale. Though a lot looks fabulous with new floors etc., what about the plumbing/heating and all the hidden stuff? Can we really trust these old buildings? Also has anybody heard of these buildings being infested by rats? Or is it just a Manhattan thing? -
Anonymous wrote:
You're going to have to survey them before you buy, I have looked at many houses and some looked great on the outside and crappy inside and vice versa.
Another question. I see a lot of pre-war buildings for sale. Though a lot looks fabulous with new floors etc., what about the plumbing/heating and all the hidden stuff? Can we really trust these old buildings? Also has anybody heard of these buildings being infested by rats? Or is it just a Manhattan thing?
You can find them in *near* perfect condition and also completely run down.
Get a professional and independend surveyor.
The one I bought was a bit of both.
I have had no problems with rats whatsoever so far, but they are in Brooklyn just as much as they are in Manhattan. -
i don't necessarily agree that condos are a better investment. i think it just depends on the place you find. absolutely do not limit yourself to only looking at condos, as 90% of the apartments in new york are co-ops. when you are looking around, find out about the financials of the building, ask when and what improvements that have made to the building and also ask about the maintenance. it is your preference whether you prefer an older pre-war co-op with character or a newer place which is more likely to be a condo. be aware of some of the newer condos in park slope although as many have sub-par building standards and materials. if you like the old look, you will find beautiful places that have been standing for 100's of years. i would say that both co-ops and condos are a good investment but as someone said, it is sometimes nice that a co-op looks out for the building as a whole and keeps regulations in place that usually makes for a good overall living situation.
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Is it true that we cannot rent out a coop?
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In larger co-ops you may be able to rent out for a specific period of time.
Each co-op has "house rules" that are slightly different.
In the majority of smaller co-ops you will not be allowed to rent out.
Have you checked out Live Local.com? Great closeups of the houses from 4 different directions. The majority of the attached townhouses you will see in Park Slope are 4 unit co-ops. The condos for the most part these days are the uglier new developments on the fringes of the neighborhood. A few exceptions.
Good Luck - All listings are online @ NY times real estate. -
In larger co-ops you may be able to rent out for a specific period of time.
That scares me quite a bit. My job requires me to be posted out of NY from time to time. Would be real hardship not to be able to rent it out. What is a "larger coop"?
Each co-op has "house rules" that are slightly different.
In the majority of smaller co-ops you will not be allowed to rent out. -
Subject: reply
A larger co-op means more than 12 units I'd say - but as has been said above different co-ops have different rules and I would just make your ability to sub-let a condition of any offer you make. A co-op or condo can both make fine homes.
I wouldn't worry about the safety of living "on-the-park", I've lived on a park block for 12 years and have always felt perfectly safe. The only people I know who have been robbed were living on the first floor and left their window open when they went away for the weekend.
I've been looking at 2 beds in the price range that you're talking about and the truth is the current supply of them in traditional park slope is not very great. Moreover, the quality and layout of apartments in the slope varies a great deal in general so I'd be very wary of buying anything without seeing it first. Also, unless "newness" is your thing, I'd stay away from most of the newly developed buildings along 4th avenue or past 15th street; most of the charm in the slope is in the older buildings and the pedestrian lifestyles of 7th and 5th avenues. -
I've been looking at 2 beds in the price range that you're talking about and the truth is the current supply of them in traditional park slope is not very great. Moreover, the quality and layout of apartments in the slope varies a great deal in general so I'd be very wary of buying anything without seeing it first.
Im disappointed to hear that its so hard to find something of my requirement within my budget. Ive been reading TheRealDeal website just to keep an eye on the trend. I get mixed messages on the direction the market is going.
My intention is to do as much selection as possible online and then make a quick trip to see for myself before I make a final decision. I also have a family member living in Greenpoint who can help out initially.
BTW I was "looking" at an apartment on 5th Ave (850sf) - it got 12 offers over the weekend, fetching 575K, well above the asking price. Is the market that hot? This works out to be $676 psf. Is this the going price? Also, the broker said that this coop allows rental and does not require Board approval. Thats encouraging (for me at least).
Also, I read of some drug-dealing on the streets at Park Slope and some mugging. Is this just anecdotal?
If I can't get anything on Park Slope, wheres the next best neighbourhood? -
Oops, I may have mixed up the apartments sold. Perhaps the broker was refering to another one which was bigger, bringing the psf price to $522 (1100sf coop). That sounds better.
BTW I was "looking" at an apartment on 5th Ave (850sf) - it got 12 offers over the weekend, fetching 575K, well above the asking price. Is the market that hot? This works out to be $676 psf. Is this the going price? Also, the broker said that this coop allows rental and does not require Board approval -
We were looking for the exact same thing for the same budget, and we just bought a place in Prospect Heights instead. The market is incredibly overheated at the moment. We lost out on a few places, got our act together and beat a few other bidders to get our current place.
You will not find anything with a normal floorplan for 600k in the Slope itself. Everything I've seen is flawed, either 1 bedroom mezzanine, weird floorplans etc. Depending on the country you'll come from, you'll have to adjust big time to NY standards, i.e. there is only so much that your 600k will buy you in your area of choice.
We came to PS from Europe 4 years ago and loved the village-y, home-y atmosphere. Lots of trees, cute shops, bars and a slower pace of life. We live on the park. At the time it felt like Park Slope was also super hot with Manhattanites, but over the last six months it seems to have turned into a veritable stampede.
Manhattanites are so strapped for space you can sell them anything at any price. Neighborhoods near the water (Dumbo, Williamsburg, Long Island City) have successfully transformed into Manhattan-burghs, high rises with Manhattan prices.
Brownstone Brooklyn (Park Slope, Boerum Hill, Fort Greene) is not far behind. If you want to buy and cannot afford 750K you should look at Prospect Heights, Clinton Hill, Windsor Terrace, even Kensington. But that requires some knowledge of those neighborhoods as the vibe can vary street by street.
You seem very preoccupied with safety, which makes me think you're not European because we tend to be not as neurotic about that as Americans. Unless you're still buying into the 'NY is dangerous' mindset of the 70s, 80s and early '90s.
PS is one of the safest neighborhoods in NYC; don't let a few police blotter reports scare you. NYers are lemmings. If one person gets mugged, they scream murder, the scream multiplies and before you know it, Park Slope has turned into a danger zone. I've lived on the park and the only 'problem' is noise from tripleparked SUVs unloading huge families that go BBQing in the summer.
If renting out and resale value is important, and you are moving from abroad without few possibilities to scope out the neighborhoods, then Park Slope is absolutely fail-safe. You will HAVE to compromise on space. There are some new developments on the edges of the nabe that will get you condos (easy for subletting). Check out Corcoran, Aguayo Huebener websites. Good luck! -
newkid wrote:
I think there is probably drug dealing in every town in the United States. Granted I am not the most observant person in the world, but I have not seen people openly selling drugs on the streets of Park Slope. It does go on, but it's discreet. As far as muggings go, yes, there are muggings. The local paper reports a couple of muggings every week. I've lived in Park Slope for 13 years and have never been mugged, no one in my family has been mugged, none of my friends have been mugged, etc. It feels like a very safe neighborhood to me; however, I would not walk around by myself in the middle of the night (here or anywhere).
Also, I read of some drug-dealing on the streets at Park Slope and some mugging. Is this just anecdotal? -
Wow, thanks for so much advice.
Im now casting my nets all over yet not going too far or to wrong neighbourhoods. I dont want to have to spend way beyond half an hour from Times sq.
BTW, friends tell me that if I want to settle for a "new" condo, I could always go to Williamsburg. There seems to be a glut there. But, Ive looked hard and long and dont seem to find anything I like. Besides the fact that they are very expensive too. But in that area, it seems I dont have to rush a decision since the price seems to be either holding, if not actually falling. Seems a little unfair to talk about another neighbourhood in this form. But people in this forum are more generous with their knowledge on real estate, Im going to pose my questions here.
Your views please. -
newkid wrote:
Newkid, it's the europoster from two posts up again. Your friends are merely repeating what they read in the press, which is what everybody does in NY. It's not true that Williamsburg is now suddenly a steal. The brokers are holding on to their high prices. I love the new architecture but I don't love brokers who treat me like shit because I only have 600k to spend.
BTW, friends tell me that if I want to settle for a "new" condo, I could always go to Williamsburg. There seems to be a glut there. But, Ive looked hard and long and dont seem to find anything I like. Besides the fact that they are very expensive too.
Your views please.
There might be a glut by the end of the year, but the market is so strong, it might not happen after all. 750k doesn't get you much in Williamsburg, because the developers can find plenty of Manhattan couples willing to shack up in a 1 bedroom for 850k. Plus the L train to Williamsburg is already packed to the brim - and this is before all those new buildings are filling up - so you might not want to do that for your commute.
If I were you I would rent for about 6 months and look at Long Island City (Echelon, Arris Lofts etc) which is a super fast commute to Midtown with the E, V and 7 trains. Good luck with your move to NY. -
Europoster, thanks for your advice. Im not keen to go outside of Brooklyn cause my friends are all here.
I didnt realise buying in the area is such a stress. Not knowing the place intimately does not help.
You are right, Williamsburg is not a steal. Far from it, in fact. Though I might have to shift my sights from a 2 b/r to one, I cannot do much about the budget
BTW do you or anyone out there have any idea how the area around Pratt Inst. looks like. Especially the N/E part. There are a couple of apartments there.
I was studying the subway map and frankly, Im best near Line G to get to midtown. But regions on that line do not look so hot. I thought of Greenpoint ( I stayed there with a friend for a few days).But I want to be near trees and there are hardly any there!! What do you think? -
Newkid,
Area near Pratt is not great. You have to walk through the projects to reach those great looking apartments you see on the web. Granted, there's a police precinct right there. In fact we first offered on a great apartment in the area, but pulled out when we examined the nabe. I spend a lot of time @ Pratt Library, there are fun places on DeKalb and Myrtle - five blocks from Pratt and eight blocks from where the current attractive listings are. But it's different to live there.
I wouldn't say it's particularly dangerous, I'm perfectly happy being at Pratt, walking around for coffee breaks, but you will not have any amenities for about 8 blocks. Walking down Kent and Myrtle you see empty lots, burnt out mattresses, White Castle (a red flag!), a sex shop and one or two okay places. You would have to gamble on Myrtle gentrification making it eight blocks east. There are some new developments though, so change might be on the way. We decided to go for Prospect Heights.
As for LIC, you shouldn't be too picky when househunting in NY, in case you hadn't noticed. Basic reality: if you move from anywhere except London (another place where even a ton of money gets you nothing) to NY, you will have to redefine quality of life. Forget what you have now. Space, trees, privacy. It all goes out of the window in exchange for a super exciting vibrancy and a multitude of ambitious people.
Although I must say I love Greenpoint and old-school brick buildings, McCarren Park nearby. A nice mix of Polish and Puertoricans, 'real people', not the stroller mafia you get in Park Slope. But not many nice 2 bedroom condos/coops. Mostly rental places. The soil in Greenpoint seems very polluted by nearby (former) industry plants, if that kind of thing bothers you.
Look at a map and you will see that LIC is literally across the bridge from Greenpoint!!! You can even walk or bike from one to the other. Does it matter that one is Brooklyn and the other Queens? Those boroughs are both huge. Think of them as cities, not neighborhoods. If your friends live in Greenpoint, you'd be really close to them in LIC and you'd have a short commute.
Subway lines in LIC are so much better for your commute. The G train sucks for commutes, although it's okay for random use. G-nabes are fine, not as bad as C trains going deeper into Brooklyn. From Pratt you would have to take the G to LIC anyway and change there for mid-town. -
Europoster,
The area near Pratt described by you is exactly the kind of place I want to avoid. Not only it sounds dangerous, its also depressing. Im willing to lower my standards but not that low.
Buying a place is also an investment. I wonder if LIC would have the same boom that is happening in Brooklyn.
Yes I am concerned about the pollution in Greenpoint.
Someone suggested for me to wait, to rent first and see how I feel. Ive been postponing for the last two years. My fear is that I will miss the boat if I wait too long. I feel this year is a good time to buy simply because we are competing with Manhatanittes. -
Two years ago the market was super crazy. It's a good thing you didn't have bought then. Now it's only a little insane. There are a lot of people buying into those highrises in LIC already. Check out this forum to get a better sense of the area: http://www.queenswest.com/neighborhood/discussion/
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I looked closely at the map as you suggested. It never occured to me to look at Queens. To do so, I have to debunk some preconceived ideas about the place. The last time I went to Queens was to Flushing in the 90s for some ethnic food. It was quite a dump.
Anyway, I saw that the prices of the new condos at LIC are not any cheaper, neither is the c.c. Im not quite prepared to go too far away from LIC.
If you have anything you know, please pass on.
Gee, this apartment hunting is turning out to be a full time job. Hope its worth it.
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