With the Atlantic yard

fgmama, i'm not a real estate professional, just a resident whose lived in this part of brooklyn for about 7 years. My family has been in Bkln for about 160 years. I'm not trying to argue with you. I do agree with you re projects not precluding economic development of a neighborhood, i just don't think either nabe is dominated by projects

bedford is not the dividing line, don't know where you come up with that. All the old time residents in CH say it is Classon. RE agents say Franklin, Bedford, Nostrand and it keeps on going. The Bed Stuy police precinct begins at Classon. There is no real debate on that point and frankly I've never heard anyone seriously try to say otherwise unless they bought or are selling just over the border. I like BS and wouldn't want to try to label it something else.

It's definitely Classon.

Anonymous wrote: just a note of correction, fgmama. The high rises in clinton hill are all cooperatives, not housing projects.
The buildings to the left and to the right of Pratt are not projects. One, the St. James Towers, is a Mitchell-Lama cooperative. The other, Willoughby Walk, is also a cooperative.
The high-rises that line Clinton Ave, are also cooperative (Clinton Hill Coops).
Finally, the housing project at Classon Ave is technically in Bed-Stuy.
Not that it should matter.

LOL! That is about as technically correct as one can get, given the defined boundaries of CH.

However, given how small CH actually is, I think the net effect is that the projects are very much felt in CH. I know the Ingersol houses down Myrtle are felt in north western CH, and I would suspect the Classon projects are felt in and around eastern CH too.

CrownHeightsProud wrote: I gotta ask - felt how? A Darth Vader kind of dark side miasma curling mist-like off of the buildings? A pervading sense of hopelessness? Loud music? Please define a loaded statement like "the projects are felt".

I'll leave that for everyone's imagination. Suffice it to say, I've never lived this close to projects, and whether by coincidence or not, I've also never had so much crime so close to home. Is it possible that CH residents are responsible for the bulk of the crime? Yes. It is also possible that lots of it comes from the projects just down the road. What is the more probable source? You know what I think. What do you think?

BTW, if the crime blotter reports the addresses of the perps and it happens that the perps all reside in CH, I'll gladly apologise to all of the project residents.

Anonymous wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=CrownHeightsProud]I gotta ask - felt how? A Darth Vader kind of dark side miasma curling mist-like off of the buildings? A pervading sense of hopelessness? Loud music? Please define a loaded statement like "the projects are felt".

I'll leave that for everyone's imagination. Suffice it to say, I've never lived this close to projects, and whether by coincidence or not, I've also never had so much crime so close to home. Is it possible that CH residents are responsible for the bulk of the crime? Yes. It is also possible that lots of it comes from the projects just down the road. What is the more probable source? You know what I think. What do you think?

BTW, if the crime blotter reports the addresses of the perps and it happens that the perps all reside in CH, I'll gladly apologise to all of the project residents.

I must add that you probably have lived close to crime/criminals- but not the sort that is reported in the daily news/police blotters...and didn't know it. White collar criminals tend not to live in neighborhoods like F/G,C/H but "high end" nabes. I've lived next to FG projects ( 1 sq. block) for 15 years and amazingly the crime seems to be self contained w/i the developments. If you don't like seeing the people from the projects around - that another issue and it will not be easy living in a nabe with them but for the most part. Its not like the people from the projects canvas the nabe for victims ( thats just my 15 year experience)

What are we getting into here? As long as the white collar criminal isnt mugging my wife when she comes out of the train, I couldnt give a toss if he lives next door. Leave him to the cops.

As for your 15 years experience telling you that crime is self-contained in the projects, I'd be interested in whether the stats support that. Somehow I doubt it, but thats just me.

Lastly, it has nothing to do with not liking "seeing people from the projects" whatever the crap that means. If you saw me you'd probably think I'm from the projects.

What this is about is my opinion that the crime experienced in CH is probably linked to the projects. Thats all it is, and I dont think it's such a stretch to think so.

I should also add that there is so much change going on in the area affecting streets well into Bed Stuy that I am inclined to discount any Putnam-Greene area crime, especially as completion of all the construction on Putnam in the coming years will probably also really help improve matters. Thx

Guvna wrote: this article discusses the situation at grand & putnam as of aug 06:
http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/29/30/29_30crime.html

Thanks Guvna, I'll check it out.

FG/CH also has some historical importance with pull power having well known artist like Spike Lee and Richard Simmons.

I know BS has a lot of character in its Brownstones as well as some very popular Rap Artists, but will it have the overall, general artistic/student feel of the neighborhood that have traditionally attracted the Yuppies, which will attract the more established ppl who will eventually occupy the neighborhood and give it that mature feeling like in Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights?

My bet is still in FG/CH. I don't truly believe that BS will fall into the category that will transition itself before FG/CH does. In the long run, its best to stay and profit here.

FIRST OF ALL it's russell, not richard! wrong dude. well, now we know where you're coming from! what "mature feeling" are you talking about in bh, ps? you are the kind of person that is making fg/ch feel less like a place that many of us want to live in. this was a discussion on the migration outward as ay gets going and anyone who knows this area (as you really don't seem to despite your landlord status) will tell you that it's happening already and it will continue to do so. bs is already pulling in younger families, and students, and of course, artists, who have traditionally always "improved" neighborhoods as they move in and fix up. get a clue.