A warning to the baby-phobic

Subject: Re: Come on now!

BigBubba wrote: I'm also entitled to ruin your meal as much as anyone else.

I think that says it all.

Subject: Re: Come on now!

normal ps mom wrote: His point was obviously that a fussy baby/toddler is on par with a rude cell phone user or (as happened to me last night at Mary's Fish Shack) a guy at the next table who did nothing but stare at our table and creep us right the hell out, or an obnoxiously drunk bachelorette party two booths over, or a rude waiter. . . . Obviously, when read in context, the comment was not "I want to disrupt your meal" but "I am only as likely to disrupt your meal as other annoyances that one runs into when living a social, urban, non-Unabomber-like life."

Would you give it up already?

No one here is saying that obnoxious PS parents are the worst annoyance in the universe. But the very fact that you are comparing yourself to an obnoxious cell phone user is an acknowledgement that bringing your child to a restaurant is inconsiderate, rude, and inappropriate. You are welcome to start another thread about annoying cell phone users in restaurants, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of people to agree with you (myself included). But I bet that "inconsiderate cell phone man" won't repeatedly try to explain away his obnoxious behavior by pointing out that other people are also annoying.

Your defensiveness about your rude behavior perfectly illustrates the sense of entitlement I was talking about. Of course you have the right to be as rude as anyone else. Take full advantage of it!

Full disclosure: I don't have kids, but I have been a nanny in PS and have had to use a stroller. Let me tell you, if you are a courteous "driver", they can be very unwealdy. But passersby can be very helpful holding open doors & helping to carry them down stairs.
Anyhoo, I think that the main problem with strollers in PS is that the sidewalks are very narrow. It's hard enough for two people to pass in some spots - forget it if there's a tree.
This thread is so heated, I feel I must add that I love trees.
That said; more walkways, bike lanes, trees & less roads.

mc wrote: Full disclosure: I don't have kids, but I have been a nanny in PS and have had to use a stroller. Let me tell you, if you are a courteous "driver", they can be very unwealdy. But passersby can be very helpful holding open doors & helping to carry them down stairs.
Anyhoo, I think that the main problem with strollers in PS is that the sidewalks are very narrow. It's hard enough for two people to pass in some spots - forget it if there's a tree.
This thread is so heated, I feel I must add that I love trees.
That said; more walkways, bike lanes, trees & less roads.

To MC's point about strollers being unwieldy, I have to concur. The weekend I had my two nieces over, my BIL brought one of those gigantic tandem two-seaters with mag wheels. I got kinda power-crazed and me and the kids were having so much fun whizzing down the sidewalk at break-neck speed, I think I may have taken our a couple of knees and shins - what with me not being used to driving that Buick stroller. To my credit, I did, however, use apologies like "Sorry", "Scusi", "Oh my god, I am so so sorry", "Here, let me pay for that sir", "Gee, I hope that didn't hurt too much", etc.

Anyhow, it really is hard to manuever those things, especially with two kids (1 baby and 1 toddler) and all the baggage. The weight makes it difficult to turn, as well as maintain a straight course or stop on a dime. And the Park Slope sidewalks are not level, which means the stroller is constantly pulling to one side or the other. And the kids are constantly trying to get your attention (if they aren't asleep), so you're not exactly watching the road.

By the end of the day, after taking them all along 7th Ave, then all around the Park, the Zoo, and the Carousel, I was TIRED. My arms were TIRED. My feet were killing me. But, it was sooooooo worth it!!!!

I do understand. And I AM NOT A BABY HATER.

I just hate rude, smug, obnoxious people in general. And when you're armed with a stroller and a couple of rambunctious toddlers, there is just that much more potential to piss people off.

WARNING: My adorable nieces (far more sweet and adorable than any of your fugly kids) will be coming to visit me in November. I'll be behind the wheel again soon. Nobody will be safe on a Park Slope sidewalk.

BigBubba - Carnivore and quite a few other PS Bashers dont even live in PS (based on their profile) so they should have no issue staying away.

BTW They must hate the photo on the upper left - a little kid (wearing snooty sunglasses no less) and a dog! Boy what could be more annoying....

Anonymous wrote: BigBubba - Carnivore and quite a few other PS Bashers dont even live in PS (based on their profile) so they should have no issue staying away.

whoa! are you guys putting up a fence now? "stay out of our 'hood, you fucking prohofucks!"

Subject: Re: Who do you think you are?

BigBubba wrote: Carnivore -
I have some bad news for you. You do not own Park Slope, its sidewalks or its restaurants. My son and I have a right to eat out if we want and it follows that you do not have a God given right to choose who sits next to you. I'll do all I can to make sure that my son behaves and does not act like a twit. If it gets bad, I'll take my son outside since it is the right thing to do. But beyond that, you will just have to deal with the occasional yelp, dropped spoon, and me struggling to get my stroller past your seat. If you don't like it, stay home and order take out.

Just for the sake of clarity, the "BigBubba" poster is NOT the BigBubba of Craig's List Housing Forum, where the moniker originated. He is a weak imitator, and a poor one at that who has adopted the name for some reason.

IMO, he's really a troll.

daveb wrote: I think the bigger question is not whether parents should bring their kids to restaurants and let them make a racket but rather why society let's self-righteous, pontificating trolls reproduce. I mean, seriously. :shock:

this is a totally different issue, of course, but have you seen what's up in indiana? pretty soon only the self-righteous will be allowed their reproductive rights, if the republicans in that state get their way. can you imagine? every single child in indiana behaving like the absolute worst upper east side brat ever? ack. :!:

Subject: Re: Come on now!

normal ps mom wrote: Stop assuming that I'm one of the annoying parents who don't know when to leave a public place when the kids is out of control. Don't lump us all in together.

Sorry. I only assumed you were one of the obnoxious annoying parents because you were so vigorously defending them. So exclude you- everything else I said stands.

Subject: Double strollers

uhm so if you have two children what do you suggest we push around? A single stroller and should we carry one 28 pound child on our back so that nobody has to step aside after a polite "excuse me"? I don't drive an SUV but I do push one down the street. Double strollers are wide, that is the nature of them. Yes there is a righteous annoying PS slope mom type but WOW this is one cranky crowd of thin skinned self-absorbed navel gazers. Do you guys have a thread where you gripe about those annoying disabled people and their rude wheel chairs that take up your space too! And who the ^%$@ do those people leaving Methodist on crutches think they are? GET OUT OF MY WAY! I have a mojito waiting for me.
I think as a parent in Brooklyn we have all felt the "look" and we are just as sick of it as you are of hearing a kid crying when you eat out (apparently at 7:00? This must be a geriatric board because i haven't seen kids out very often at restaurants past 8:00). So I will reserve my judgment of you if you will try to judge parents as individuals and not lump us together as a bunch of people out to ruin your day.

BigBubba wrote:

Just for the sake of clarity, the "BigBubba" poster is NOT the BigBubba of Craig's List Housing Forum, where the moniker originated. He is a weak imitator, and a poor one at that who has adopted the name for some reason.

IMO, he's really a troll.

I really did not mean to get everyone so excited. My original point was just to say that I think I have a right to eat out too with my son. I don't have a right to be a jerk or to let my son ruin anyone else’s meal. Most parent’s know this and act appropriately.

As far as you go Original_CL_BigBubba I stole your moniker because you are a pompous arrogant buffoon . I did it to get your goat and I am glad it worked. I promise to retire using the name now. Can we make up and be friends? I'll even buy you a beer. What is your e-mail address?

You are one sick dude. Talk about pompous arrogant buffoons. You've done a pretty good job of taking that title away from me.

As for the name, I just didn't want to be associated with your warped trolling.

Anyhow, sure, we can make up. But, if I'm such a huge a-hole, then why do you want to have a beer with me? Why are you even stalking me? Obviously, I got your goat somewhere, sometime, so out with it.

Sarah from the Slope wrote: Wait a minute, Carnivore -- so "the occasional yelp, dropped spoon, and (BigBubba) struggling to get my stroller past your seat" would "ruin" your meal? You're quite the delicate flower.

That is not what I said.

BigBubba wrote: I'm also entitled to ruin your meal as much as anyone else.

BigBubba wrote: I don't have a right to be a jerk or to let my son ruin anyone else’s meal.

Is that clear enough for you Sarah?

Sarah from the Slope wrote: Seriously, can't we all just get along, here?

A profound point.
What I think Pitu and Miguel 2 and EmilyM and I are repeatedly saying is that we're perfectly willing to go out of our way to accomodate parents trying to raise kids in the city, but we're getting tired of the inconsiderate ungrateful and rude parents that are so prevalent in Park Slope. You can continue to deny it as much as you want, but you should open your eyes. The parents in Park Slope are different from parents elsewhere in the city.

Kensingtonmom wrote: So why are you shopping/eating/hanging out or living there? Park Slope has been overrun by the real estate boom. Move on would be my advice.

what, and lose our spot?

Kensington for kensingtonmom, Park Slope for pitu!

Anonymous wrote: [quote=Sarah from the Slope]Seriously, can't we all just get along, here?

no.

I guess that I gave BigBubba the benefit of the doubt, assuming he was being obviously facetious with the "I have as much right to ruin your meal as anyone else" comment. God forbid one might give someone the benefit of the doubt in an online forum. (I also think that perhaps I am the delicate flower in this scenario, here, since after all I'm the one feeling angry and upset by some of these comments. Mea culpa.)

For the record, I've lived here in the North Slope for almost ten years now, have only been a parent for the past year and a half, and have never noticed parents here acting more rude or "entitled" than anywhere else. (I'm also not rich by any stretch, can't afford a car, don't belong to the co-op, and live in a 1-BR apt., in case any of that stuff matters to you.) I don't accept the premise that Park Slope parents are "a breed apart." If it appears that way to you, it might be because there are just so many parents in this one neighborhood, so your chances of running into a parent who is a jerk is higher here.

And for the record, I've been lurking on these boards for a while now, and I have to say I usually enjoy the comments of the folks here, even the ones with whom I disagree on this particular thread. Thanks.